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Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

this is a discussion within the Everything Else Community Forum; Originally Posted by crawgator Steinbrenner was a winner!!! Welcome, Crawgator. YES he was a winner. God Bless him. Originally Posted by QBREES9 He was great for the sport. And that is coming from a RED SOX Fan. Mr Steinbrenner you ...

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Old 07-14-2010, 07:32 AM   #11
 
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

Originally Posted by crawgator View Post
Steinbrenner was a winner!!!
Welcome, Crawgator. YES he was a winner. God Bless him.

Originally Posted by QBREES9 View Post
He was great for the sport. And that is coming from a RED SOX Fan. Mr Steinbrenner you will be missed. R.I.P.
Agreed. RIP.

His son has already been filling in well in his footsteps.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:55 AM   #12
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

What owner couldn't thrive in that market. All those fortune 500 companies and no salary cap.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:34 PM   #13
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

Originally Posted by Beastmode View Post
What owner couldn't thrive in that market. All those fortune 500 companies and no salary cap.
You rite. George was far less a brilliant baseball man than he was a master of abusing the system.

The "Lets find the guy with the best numbers and grossly overpay him because we can afford the luxury tax" baseball model doesn't take much of an IQ.

Then again, neither does getting banned from baseball AND being convicted of a felony. Or how about being more or less the driving force behind escalating salaries at the expense of parity?

I guess you are either from the "win at all costs" school or the "there is such a thing as integrity" school. "The Boss" was really "The Ass". Just ask Dave Winfield.

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Old 07-15-2010, 01:54 AM   #14
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

As a Yankee fan myself, I can honestly say, that we are used to "sour grapes", from the rest of the league, and its fans. All money spent on the team, came from the team. Every dime, re-invested. Other teams have just as much money to spend, but they don't. Just remember, it wasn't the Yankees, who signed A-Rod, to a 200 million dollar contract. That would be the Rangers. Integrity in sports? Any sport? Come on Saintfan. The players are just as much to blame for inflated contracts, if not more than the owners. Yankees WANT to win. So yeah, let's hate them for that.

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Old 07-15-2010, 01:56 AM   #15
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

And by the way, the Lakers have won more championships, than the Yankees have, since 1980. They also buy players, just about every off season, but I don't see any of you haters, jumping on their backs.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:43 AM   #16
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

Originally Posted by saintpaul25 View Post
As a Yankee fan myself, I can honestly say, that we are used to "sour grapes", from the rest of the league, and its fans. All money spent on the team, came from the team. Every dime, re-invested.
At the expense of the integrity of the game and in a way that is unfair to the rest of the league. These 'sour grapes' did not grow from the Yankess organization being the best one in baseball, because they aren't, they sprouted from the Yankees buying championships year after year, raiding the rosters of teams like the Expos and so on, not through their baseball knowledge or intelligence, but through the money they spent through unequal marketing and cable television assets. If you are happy that this money went back in to the team then you are missing the point, but most Yankee fans either cannot or choose not to grasp that.

Other teams have just as much money to spend, but they don't. Just remember, it wasn't the Yankees, who signed A-Rod, to a 200 million dollar contract. That would be the Rangers.
"The Ass", aka 'the boss', led the way my friend, which is why all but two or three teams could never have a chance at a-rod and players like him. Oh, and would you please list these other teams that can spend like the Yankees. Will you make it all the way to 5?

Integrity in sports? Any sport? Come on Saintfan. The players are just as much to blame for inflated contracts, if not more than the owners. Yankees WANT to win. So yeah, let's hate them for that.
I think it is pretty clear that you don't have a solid grasp of the history of George's legacy - moreover that legacy has nothing to do with owners who pocket profits. Start that thread and I'll happily rail on them too, but it has nothing to do with George. How might you feel if the New York Giants or maybe the Jets were able to dominate the rosters in Football in the same way the Yankees are able to in baseball?

Integrity in sports? I give you Drew Brees, Manning (any of them), Chipper Jones, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Craig Biggio, Nolan Ryan, Deuce, Parcells, John Fox, and on and on. You are damn right there is integrity in sports, there just ain't much of it in Yankee land to be sure. In Yankee land it's about money and winning at all costs, and winning at all costs lacks integrity. Simple simple.

And oh by the way, George was to baseball what Davis and Jones (Al and Jerry) WOULD be to football except the league won't allow them to do it, which is what baseball should have done to "The Ass" before he completely and almost, but not quite, all by his lonesome ruined the game. He was banned in fact for his lack of integrity, but they screwed up and let him back in.

So you keep right on praising the Yankees. I, for one, see how George turned the legacy of a great team into one of buying wins, and I giggle my ass off every time they lose, EVERY time, in spring training, the regular season, and the post season. One of the greatest things to ever happen in sports was the Red Sox coming back from 0-3 to beat the Yankees, and I hate the Red Sox too! GO RAYS!!!!!!!!!

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Old 07-15-2010, 06:34 PM   #17
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

Five teams that spend money like the Yanks, or could. Braves, Angels, Red Sox, Rangers, Cardinals... Want more? How about the Mets? Same market as the Yankees, have went out and "bought" as you say, the same kind of players, but due to poor management, haven't had the same success. How about the Dodgers? L.A. is right up there in market value with New York. No, you just hate the Yankees. You showed that in your last paragraph. Buying championships? As I have pointed out, they have won five in the past twenty years. That's not really getting your money's worth, if you are only winning five, in twenty. Free agents, are just that, free agents. Every team has a chance to sign them, they just choose not to try. Yankees are a "winning" franchise. That's why they sell out all of their games every year at home. Fans have come to expect it, and that's what they get. The "Ass", took a team, that was basically dead in the water, and got it back to where it was, when Babe, and Gherig were around. I'm curious, did they "buy" those championships too?

Don't compare football to baseball, apples, and oranges. The Yankees are the most historical professional sports franchise in the history of it. And these teams, that the Yankees "raid", as you say, don't they have the option to keep these players? Unless they are free agents? But they don't. The A's have a garage sale, every year on their best players. And for all of you guys in denial, TED TURNER, tends to buy quite a few players every year too. But no hatred towards the Braves i see.... But I'm sure that Ted Turner feeds, and clothes the homeless in his spare time, and gives most of his earning to charity right?

Also, real quick, was Steinbrenner responsible for the baseball strike? Or was it the players? That's what killed baseball. The players DON'T want a cap. They have made it clear, year, after year. The owners don't seem to want one either, so who exactly would this cap be for? The fans of teams like the Expos? Or the Orioles? Teams with owners that don't really care if they win or not? These owners like baseball the way it is. That way, they can develop these players, in great ones, and then sell them off to guys like "the ass" as you call him, and then pocket the money for themselves. Meanwhile, they don't sell out games, until the Yankees come to town. That's what's sad to me. When a team doesn't sell out their own stadium, until the Yankees come to town, and then there are more Yankee jerseys, than there are the hometeam's in the stands. Hmmmm, I wonder why all these players want to go to New York now? Maybe it's because as far as fanbases go, in the MLB, you are all drastically outnumbered?

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Old 07-15-2010, 06:37 PM   #18
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

And once again, no mention of the Lakers.... If New York is such and easy market to make money in, then perhaps you would like to explain the Knicks to me....
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:05 PM   #19
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

Originally Posted by saintpaul25 View Post
Five teams that spend money like the Yanks, or could. Braves, Angels, Red Sox, Rangers, Cardinals... Want more? How about the Mets? Same market as the Yankees, have went out and "bought" as you say, the same kind of players, but due to poor management, haven't had the same success. How about the Dodgers? L.A. is right up there in market value with New York.
LMAO. This isn't about market value. Once again you are demonstrating that you don't understand the argument, which is about fair play and not about market value. Its about abusing the system, or integrity, or ethics, or whatever word you prefer. It is about what is best for the league in question, in this case baseball. Not one of those teams you listed, which I assume came of the top of your head, can compete financially, but I'll elaborate for you here:

264 New York Yankees
201 Boston Red Sox - the closest to the yankees but short by 63 million
180 New York Mets - do the math
173 Seattle Mariners
170 Chicago Cubs
167 Philadelphia Phillies
166 Los Angeles Dodgers
162 Atlanta Braves - you mentioned the Braves a cool 100 million or so back
159 San Francisco Giants
155 Houston Astros

No, you just hate the Yankees.
On the accuracy meter you are batting .500 so far. Yes, in fact I loath them.

Buying championships? As I have pointed out, they have won five in the past twenty years. That's not really getting your money's worth, if you are only winning five, in twenty.
Which only serves to lessen 'ol George's legacy, no? Take a look see at the numbers:

Take the Yankees Payroll this year: $206,333,389
The next closest team is the Red Sox:$162,747,333

The math reveals a difference of $43,586,056 - so the Yankees outspend their closest team by half a hundred million dollars, and no other team, certainly not any of the teams you mentioned, are anywhere close to that. And then of course there are the Pirates, in a MUCH smaller market and with precisely NO hope of competing save the talent they draft and develop before the Yankees sign those players away -- the difference between the two? $171, 390, 389. That's not too far off from one quarter of a BILLION dollars a year. How's that for a disadvantage?





Free agents, are just that, free agents. Every team has a chance to sign them, they just choose not to try.
So then, please explain to me how a team like Pittsburgh could sign a player like A-Rod. Does this make A-Rod Greedy. I'd say so, but the system put in place was fostered by your favorite team, not A-Rod. Let me give you an example. There's a house over in Sausalito I'd like to own. The asking price is a tad more than 2 million dollars. What do you think the chances are that I'll get that house with my 300k bid? Understand yet?


Yankees are a "winning" franchise. That's why they sell out all of their games every year at home. Fans have come to expect it, and that's what they get. The "Ass", took a team, that was basically dead in the water, and got it back to where it was, when Babe, and Gherig were around. I'm curious, did they "buy" those championships too?
In many ways, yes, they did. If you know your baseball history you'd feel pretty silly asking that question.

Don't compare football to baseball, apples, and oranges.
I'm talking about the leagues, not the shape of the ball. Why not compare them? From a business position or from a position of fair play and equity could the Saints compete if the Giants were allowed to outspend them every year by 200 billion on player salaries? Welcome to the reality of teh situation. Let me ask you who YOU think has the better system - baseball or football? Tell the truth...

The Yankees are the most historical professional sports franchise in the history of it. And these teams, that the Yankees "raid", as you say, don't they have the option to keep these players?
The most historical in the history? That's an interesting statement. As for the other teams keeping players, no, they do not, because they cannot afford to. Hello? Welcome to the argument.


The A's have a garage sale, every year on their best players. And for all of you guys in denial, TED TURNER, tends to buy quite a few players every year too. But no hatred towards the Braves i see.... But I'm sure that Ted Turner feeds, and clothes the homeless in his spare time, and gives most of his earning to charity right?
Ted Turner? Man where have you been? You are aware of the Time Warner deal and later the Liberty Media deal right...eh...I guess not. Then again, he did donate ONE BILLION dollars of his own money to UN causes, or did you not know that. I bet you didn't know that, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...matter of fact it doesn't have anything at all to do with the discussion, other than the fact that you don't even know who owns the team you are bashing. That's funny...

Also, real quick, was Steinbrenner responsible for the baseball strike? Or was it the players? That's what killed baseball. The players DON'T want a cap. They have made it clear, year, after year. The owners don't seem to want one either, so who exactly would this cap be for? The fans of teams like the Expos? Or the Orioles?
The strike killed baseball? Are you high? The strike was a symptom, not a cause. How old are you anyway? That's a serious question because you don't know jack about the history of baseball, and the more you type the more obvious that is becoming. Of course the players don't want a cap, but you know what brought on the strike right? Of course you don't. It was the free agency system and the lavish spending of a handful of owners, led by Steinbrenner. Get educated man. Know your history.

Teams with owners that don't really care if they win or not? These owners like baseball the way it is. That way, they can develop these players, in great ones, and then sell them off to guys like "the ass" as you call him, and then pocket the money for themselves.
Can you name for me the teams that do that? Will you get to 5? I guess when the owners open up their books you'll have a pot to piss in...or maybe you won't, because all the "The Yankees Invest Every Penny" nonsense sure kept 'ol George in nice boats down there in FLA huh? You know he was living there right, I mean outside of the obituary you knew that, right? While there are owners in every sport guilty of this very thing, it's easy to spout it as an argument...but as an argument FOR "The Ass" and the Yankees? It isn't even part of the conversation, and yet you keep going back to it. Why? Well, I know why...and so do you...

Meanwhile, they don't sell out games, until the Yankees come to town. That's what's sad to me. When a team doesn't sell out their own stadium, until the Yankees come to town, and then there are more Yankee jerseys, than there are the hometeam's in the stands.
Uhhh, actually the best Road Draw in baseball is the Red Sox, not the Yankees....oooops, and even most of those games aren't sell outs. And without looking do you know the franchise that holds the record for consecutive sellouts? I'll give you a hint. It ain't the Yankees. Hell, they aren't even #2 on that list. Uhhhh...yeah....

Hmmmm, I wonder why all these players want to go to New York now? Maybe it's because as far as fanbases go, in the MLB, you are all drastically outnumbered?
They go to New York for the money. Hello? Man you are the "A" typical Yankee fan. None of the teams you mentioned can spend like the Yankees. None of the numbers you proclaim are accurate, you clearly don't know your history (Who owns the Braves again?), you think people show up to pull for the Yankees? Maybe you should attend a Rangers game in Arlington and tell me what you see.

Oh, and for all the spending and player heisting this so called 'winner' George Steinbrenner accomplished, the longest drought between championships for the Yankees was under his guidance if I'm not mistaken...maybe back when he went through 20 managers in 21 years? Ya think?

For all the 'benefit' he supposedly brought to the players, his actions ultimately fostered the culture that resulted in the strike in '94. Follow it all the way back to Catfish Hunter. Free agency is a good thing for players and baseball. Steinbrenner's abuse of it is not. If Yankee fans are too arrogant or ignorant to see it then, well, that is about what I expect from a Yankee fan.

As a Saints fan you'd crap a Golden Egg if Jerry Jones could manipulate the system the same way George Steinbrenner manipulated baseball's system, but those arrogant Yankee blinders prevent you from seeing it. It's ok man. You are not alone. You're numbers are many. The win at all costs crowd is a big one. Say high to Al Davis and Jerry Jones for me will ya?

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Old 07-15-2010, 10:01 PM   #20
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Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...

Who owned the Braves, when they were actually good? Who owned them when they were in the Series every year. I know my history just fine. I didn't know the Braves were sold, SORRY, I could care less to be honest. And as far as your Saints argument goes, I already went through that, in the 80s, before the cap, when the Saints couldn't get past teams like the 49ers, because they were buying all the best players. Did it bother me? Yes, it did, but I certainly didn't cry about it. If that's the set up, and the way things are, you adapt, and you move on. Either that, or you just continue to be a loser. There are many things I don't like in the world, that haven't changed in the many years I have been around, but I don't cry about it, I deal with it. You wanna blame the Yankees, and Steinbrenner, for the fact that your team can't compete, (I'm going to take a wild guess, that you are a Giants fan.... which would make sense, considering they haven't won a championship since they were actually in New York... Now that's irony...) If you are not, then I apologize, but I gotta say, you sound like one.

I am a Saints fan, been one since 72, and I've been a Yankee fan, since the same age. I remember the series with Jackson in the late seventies, and then I remember the complete drout, we went through, up until the late 90s. So, once again, I don't see your argument of "buying championships", considering how terrible they were back then.

You are getting mad over this? Are you serious? It's just a conversation SF. Because I don't agree with your assessment, OF MY FAVORITE MLB TEAM, not yours, then you are getting heated. What do you expect? Me to bash my own team? I am a Yankees fan, and I am a very loyal Yankee fan. I don't usually pay attention to this rhetoric, because I am in fact, a Yankee fan. I don't care about the other teams. Same as the NFL, I only care about the Saints. Thus, once again, and no offense to you at all when I say this, boo hoo, cry me a river. To blame the Yankees for the complete downfall of baseball, is just ridiculous. Phillys won, Cards won, Diamondbacks have won a couple, as well as the Redsox. This argument never pops up, until the Yankees win one, and then, here comes the crap talking. "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME." There you go. Don't like the way they do it, oh well. Obviously, it's possible to beat the Yankees, or teams like the ones I just mentioned, wouldn't have ever won them. How did they do it? Magic?

As I said, you getting mad about this is ridiculous. It's a discussion forum. Calm down.

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