Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

George Steinbrenner, owner of New York Yankees, has died in Tampa at age of 80 after heart attack

By Bill Madden
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

George Steinbrenner, a towering and intimidating figure who dominated the New York sports scene for 35 years, winning 11 American League pennants and seven world championships as owner of the Yankees, in and around two suspensions from baseball and multiple feuds and firings, died Tuesday morning in Tampa after suffering a massive heart attack. He was 80.

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George Steinbrenner, owner of New York Yankees, has died in Tampa at age of 80 after heart attack

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

I am not a Yankee fan in the least, but baseball was my first love. I have known the name George Steinbrenner since I was a young one. Regardless of all the controversy and chaos that has surrounded him and his "Evil Empire", Steinbrenner will definitely be missed.

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Yep D he will...his name involves money and winning...no doubt

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I will always remember Larry David impersonating him on Seinfeld. RIP Mr. Steinbrenner.

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

Steinbrenner was a winner!!!

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He was good for the sport. RIP

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He did very well having to survive in that NY media zoo. He knew what he wanted and in many ways helped to shape sports media and marketing as we know it. He was/is a legend. R.I.P. The Yanks win another one, and dedicate it to him.

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IMO, the most dedicated owner, to his team, and also one of the smartest, taking every dime of revenue, and re-investing it, right back into the team itself. Built championship mentallity, in every fan, of the Yankees... Rest in Peace George...

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

da-boss

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

He was great for the sport. And that is coming from a RED SOX Fan. Mr Steinbrenner you will be missed. R.I.P.

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

Welcome, Crawgator. YES he was a winner. God Bless him.

Agreed. RIP.

His son has already been filling in well in his footsteps.

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What owner couldn't thrive in that market. All those fortune 500 companies and no salary cap.

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You rite. George was far less a brilliant baseball man than he was a master of abusing the system.

The "Lets find the guy with the best numbers and grossly overpay him because we can afford the luxury tax" baseball model doesn't take much of an IQ.

Then again, neither does getting banned from baseball AND being convicted of a felony. Or how about being more or less the driving force behind escalating salaries at the expense of parity?

I guess you are either from the "win at all costs" school or the "there is such a thing as integrity" school. "The Boss" was really "The Ass". Just ask Dave Winfield.

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As a Yankee fan myself, I can honestly say, that we are used to "sour grapes", from the rest of the league, and its fans. All money spent on the team, came from the team. Every dime, re-invested. Other teams have just as much money to spend, but they don't. Just remember, it wasn't the Yankees, who signed A-Rod, to a 200 million dollar contract. That would be the Rangers. Integrity in sports? Any sport? Come on Saintfan. The players are just as much to blame for inflated contracts, if not more than the owners. Yankees WANT to win. So yeah, let's hate them for that.

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And by the way, the Lakers have won more championships, than the Yankees have, since 1980. They also buy players, just about every off season, but I don't see any of you haters, jumping on their backs.

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

At the expense of the integrity of the game and in a way that is unfair to the rest of the league. These 'sour grapes' did not grow from the Yankess organization being the best one in baseball, because they aren't, they sprouted from the Yankees buying championships year after year, raiding the rosters of teams like the Expos and so on, not through their baseball knowledge or intelligence, but through the money they spent through unequal marketing and cable television assets. If you are happy that this money went back in to the team then you are missing the point, but most Yankee fans either cannot or choose not to grasp that.

"The Ass", aka 'the boss', led the way my friend, which is why all but two or three teams could never have a chance at a-rod and players like him. Oh, and would you please list these other teams that can spend like the Yankees. Will you make it all the way to 5?

I think it is pretty clear that you don't have a solid grasp of the history of George's legacy - moreover that legacy has nothing to do with owners who pocket profits. Start that thread and I'll happily rail on them too, but it has nothing to do with George. How might you feel if the New York Giants or maybe the Jets were able to dominate the rosters in Football in the same way the Yankees are able to in baseball?

Integrity in sports? I give you Drew Brees, Manning (any of them), Chipper Jones, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, Craig Biggio, Nolan Ryan, Deuce, Parcells, John Fox, and on and on. You are damn right there is integrity in sports, there just ain't much of it in Yankee land to be sure. In Yankee land it's about money and winning at all costs, and winning at all costs lacks integrity. Simple simple.

And oh by the way, George was to baseball what Davis and Jones (Al and Jerry) WOULD be to football except the league won't allow them to do it, which is what baseball should have done to "The Ass" before he completely and almost, but not quite, all by his lonesome ruined the game. He was banned in fact for his lack of integrity, but they screwed up and let him back in.

So you keep right on praising the Yankees. I, for one, see how George turned the legacy of a great team into one of buying wins, and I giggle my ass off every time they lose, EVERY time, in spring training, the regular season, and the post season. One of the greatest things to ever happen in sports was the Red Sox coming back from 0-3 to beat the Yankees, and I hate the Red Sox too! GO RAYS!!!!!!!!!

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Five teams that spend money like the Yanks, or could. Braves, Angels, Red Sox, Rangers, Cardinals... Want more? How about the Mets? Same market as the Yankees, have went out and "bought" as you say, the same kind of players, but due to poor management, haven't had the same success. How about the Dodgers? L.A. is right up there in market value with New York. No, you just hate the Yankees. You showed that in your last paragraph. Buying championships? As I have pointed out, they have won five in the past twenty years. That's not really getting your money's worth, if you are only winning five, in twenty. Free agents, are just that, free agents. Every team has a chance to sign them, they just choose not to try. Yankees are a "winning" franchise. That's why they sell out all of their games every year at home. Fans have come to expect it, and that's what they get. The "Ass", took a team, that was basically dead in the water, and got it back to where it was, when Babe, and Gherig were around. I'm curious, did they "buy" those championships too?

Don't compare football to baseball, apples, and oranges. The Yankees are the most historical professional sports franchise in the history of it. And these teams, that the Yankees "raid", as you say, don't they have the option to keep these players? Unless they are free agents? But they don't. The A's have a garage sale, every year on their best players. And for all of you guys in denial, TED TURNER, tends to buy quite a few players every year too. But no hatred towards the Braves i see.... But I'm sure that Ted Turner feeds, and clothes the homeless in his spare time, and gives most of his earning to charity right?

Also, real quick, was Steinbrenner responsible for the baseball strike? Or was it the players? That's what killed baseball. The players DON'T want a cap. They have made it clear, year, after year. The owners don't seem to want one either, so who exactly would this cap be for? The fans of teams like the Expos? Or the Orioles? Teams with owners that don't really care if they win or not? These owners like baseball the way it is. That way, they can develop these players, in great ones, and then sell them off to guys like "the ass" as you call him, and then pocket the money for themselves. Meanwhile, they don't sell out games, until the Yankees come to town. That's what's sad to me. When a team doesn't sell out their own stadium, until the Yankees come to town, and then there are more Yankee jerseys, than there are the hometeam's in the stands. Hmmmm, I wonder why all these players want to go to New York now? Maybe it's because as far as fanbases go, in the MLB, you are all drastically outnumbered?

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And once again, no mention of the Lakers.... If New York is such and easy market to make money in, then perhaps you would like to explain the Knicks to me....

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LMAO. This isn't about market value. Once again you are demonstrating that you don't understand the argument, which is about fair play and not about market value. Its about abusing the system, or integrity, or ethics, or whatever word you prefer. It is about what is best for the league in question, in this case baseball. Not one of those teams you listed, which I assume came of the top of your head, can compete financially, but I'll elaborate for you here:

264 New York Yankees
201 Boston Red Sox - the closest to the yankees but short by 63 million
180 New York Mets - do the math
173 Seattle Mariners
170 Chicago Cubs
167 Philadelphia Phillies
166 Los Angeles Dodgers
162 Atlanta Braves - you mentioned the Braves a cool 100 million or so back
159 San Francisco Giants
155 Houston Astros

On the accuracy meter you are batting .500 so far. Yes, in fact I loath them.

Which only serves to lessen 'ol George's legacy, no? Take a look see at the numbers:

Take the Yankees Payroll this year: $206,333,389
The next closest team is the Red Sox:$162,747,333

The math reveals a difference of $43,586,056 - so the Yankees outspend their closest team by half a hundred million dollars, and no other team, certainly not any of the teams you mentioned, are anywhere close to that. And then of course there are the Pirates, in a MUCH smaller market and with precisely NO hope of competing save the talent they draft and develop before the Yankees sign those players away -- the difference between the two? $171, 390, 389. That's not too far off from one quarter of a BILLION dollars a year. How's that for a disadvantage?





So then, please explain to me how a team like Pittsburgh could sign a player like A-Rod. Does this make A-Rod Greedy. I'd say so, but the system put in place was fostered by your favorite team, not A-Rod. Let me give you an example. There's a house over in Sausalito I'd like to own. The asking price is a tad more than 2 million dollars. What do you think the chances are that I'll get that house with my 300k bid? Understand yet?


In many ways, yes, they did. If you know your baseball history you'd feel pretty silly asking that question.

I'm talking about the leagues, not the shape of the ball. Why not compare them? From a business position or from a position of fair play and equity could the Saints compete if the Giants were allowed to outspend them every year by 200 billion on player salaries? Welcome to the reality of teh situation. Let me ask you who YOU think has the better system - baseball or football? Tell the truth...

The most historical in the history? That's an interesting statement. As for the other teams keeping players, no, they do not, because they cannot afford to. Hello? Welcome to the argument.


Ted Turner? Man where have you been? You are aware of the Time Warner deal and later the Liberty Media deal right...eh...I guess not. Then again, he did donate ONE BILLION dollars of his own money to UN causes, or did you not know that. I bet you didn't know that, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything...matter of fact it doesn't have anything at all to do with the discussion, other than the fact that you don't even know who owns the team you are bashing. That's funny...

The strike killed baseball? Are you high? The strike was a symptom, not a cause. How old are you anyway? That's a serious question because you don't know jack about the history of baseball, and the more you type the more obvious that is becoming. Of course the players don't want a cap, but you know what brought on the strike right? Of course you don't. It was the free agency system and the lavish spending of a handful of owners, led by Steinbrenner. Get educated man. Know your history.

Can you name for me the teams that do that? Will you get to 5? I guess when the owners open up their books you'll have a pot to piss in...or maybe you won't, because all the "The Yankees Invest Every Penny" nonsense sure kept 'ol George in nice boats down there in FLA huh? You know he was living there right, I mean outside of the obituary you knew that, right? While there are owners in every sport guilty of this very thing, it's easy to spout it as an argument...but as an argument FOR "The Ass" and the Yankees? It isn't even part of the conversation, and yet you keep going back to it. Why? Well, I know why...and so do you...

Uhhh, actually the best Road Draw in baseball is the Red Sox, not the Yankees....oooops, and even most of those games aren't sell outs. And without looking do you know the franchise that holds the record for consecutive sellouts? I'll give you a hint. It ain't the Yankees. Hell, they aren't even #2 on that list. Uhhhh...yeah....

They go to New York for the money. Hello? Man you are the "A" typical Yankee fan. None of the teams you mentioned can spend like the Yankees. None of the numbers you proclaim are accurate, you clearly don't know your history (Who owns the Braves again?), you think people show up to pull for the Yankees? Maybe you should attend a Rangers game in Arlington and tell me what you see.

Oh, and for all the spending and player heisting this so called 'winner' George Steinbrenner accomplished, the longest drought between championships for the Yankees was under his guidance if I'm not mistaken...maybe back when he went through 20 managers in 21 years? Ya think?

For all the 'benefit' he supposedly brought to the players, his actions ultimately fostered the culture that resulted in the strike in '94. Follow it all the way back to Catfish Hunter. Free agency is a good thing for players and baseball. Steinbrenner's abuse of it is not. If Yankee fans are too arrogant or ignorant to see it then, well, that is about what I expect from a Yankee fan.

As a Saints fan you'd crap a Golden Egg if Jerry Jones could manipulate the system the same way George Steinbrenner manipulated baseball's system, but those arrogant Yankee blinders prevent you from seeing it. It's ok man. You are not alone. You're numbers are many. The win at all costs crowd is a big one. Say high to Al Davis and Jerry Jones for me will ya?

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

Who owned the Braves, when they were actually good? Who owned them when they were in the Series every year. I know my history just fine. I didn't know the Braves were sold, SORRY, I could care less to be honest. And as far as your Saints argument goes, I already went through that, in the 80s, before the cap, when the Saints couldn't get past teams like the 49ers, because they were buying all the best players. Did it bother me? Yes, it did, but I certainly didn't cry about it. If that's the set up, and the way things are, you adapt, and you move on. Either that, or you just continue to be a loser. There are many things I don't like in the world, that haven't changed in the many years I have been around, but I don't cry about it, I deal with it. You wanna blame the Yankees, and Steinbrenner, for the fact that your team can't compete, (I'm going to take a wild guess, that you are a Giants fan.... which would make sense, considering they haven't won a championship since they were actually in New York... Now that's irony...) If you are not, then I apologize, but I gotta say, you sound like one.

I am a Saints fan, been one since 72, and I've been a Yankee fan, since the same age. I remember the series with Jackson in the late seventies, and then I remember the complete drout, we went through, up until the late 90s. So, once again, I don't see your argument of "buying championships", considering how terrible they were back then.

You are getting mad over this? Are you serious? It's just a conversation SF. Because I don't agree with your assessment, OF MY FAVORITE MLB TEAM, not yours, then you are getting heated. What do you expect? Me to bash my own team? I am a Yankees fan, and I am a very loyal Yankee fan. I don't usually pay attention to this rhetoric, because I am in fact, a Yankee fan. I don't care about the other teams. Same as the NFL, I only care about the Saints. Thus, once again, and no offense to you at all when I say this, boo hoo, cry me a river. To blame the Yankees for the complete downfall of baseball, is just ridiculous. Phillys won, Cards won, Diamondbacks have won a couple, as well as the Redsox. This argument never pops up, until the Yankees win one, and then, here comes the crap talking. "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME." There you go. Don't like the way they do it, oh well. Obviously, it's possible to beat the Yankees, or teams like the ones I just mentioned, wouldn't have ever won them. How did they do it? Magic?

As I said, you getting mad about this is ridiculous. It's a discussion forum. Calm down.

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Not to mention, stepping on the man's grave, what two days after he passed? Come on SF, you're better than that.

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i'm pretty sure the evidence shows otherwise - see...uh...the Braves, even at their best, weren't in the series every year, although they did with the NL East a whole bunch. I think you are confused on this issue as you are on many others. Still, the Braves were very good for a very long time, with 'mostly' home grown players and one hell of a manager. This is not an accurate representation of Yankees I'm afraid.



Yes, I know.

So tell me then, why, specifically, did it bother you? What about it bothered you? Let's explore this since essentially the same thing that bothered you where the Saints are concerned doesn't seem to register to you on the other side of the equation with the Yankees, so please do elaborate on this a little bit. I'd like to know where you see the difference...


If I have an unfair advantage do you jus accept that? Really? I'd be willing to be that isn't how you really feel. For example, my knowledge of baseball history is better than yours, but you don't accept it, you continue to argue with me. See what I mean? Nobody simply accepts something that is unfair. Do you?


Wrong. I've been an Astros and Braves fan since the mid 70's when we got Cable thanks to Skymike (LOL). See, baseball HAS changed, and your beloved George lead the charge, and his actions hurt the competitive level between MLB teams. Period. You either accept that or you don't. Frankly it appears as though you have accepted that and are willing to live with it. That's fine. Just so we're clear ;)

You don't have to be successful to be called trying. It is a fact that the Yankees and other big market teams used an unfair revenue advantage to outbid smaller market teams for players. The best MLB has been able to do is implement a luxury tax, and you already know who has paid more to that than any other team don't you? Did you simply overlook this? Not likely, but then it isn't very convenient to your Yankee fandom either huh? Would you have been equally upset if the Saints had this benefit? Not likely. If Jerry Jones had the same leverage in the NFL that George has in the MLB you be whining right along with the rest of us, because you wouldn't be blinded by your fandom, which at this point its pretty clear is why you resist the admission that Steinbrenner had and the Yankees continue to have and abuse this very advantage. You can't be helped until you admit you have a problem.

I'm getting mad? I don't get mad. I do enjoy pointing out ignorance, misrepresentations and bogus arguments. This isn't anger. These are facts that you misrepresent and I correct you on. You won't see me get angry. I know enough Yankee fans to know how it is ;)


I expect you to be man enough to see and admit the obvious and not try to blind me with a bunch of statements you can't back up. Have enough respect for me, for the game, and for yourself to stop attempting to side track the discussion or proclaim me as 'mad' as a way to deflect the topic. That's bush league. I expect if you are going to get your panties in a wad because I called out your team and their owner for doing exactly what they do that you bring something tangible to the table if you can. You have not done so. I have countered each silly statement you have made with real information. You can go right on being a Yankee fan. I know it stings when people show you how they have abused the integrity of the game. That's not my problem. As a fan of that organization it is your problem.


Well, when I blame the Yankees for the complete downfall of baseball I'll let you know. Up to this point I have not done so. I have pointed out rather clearly how the Yankees organization and George Steinbrenner have damaged fair competition though. Let's stay on point shall we, or are you just making this stuff up as you go?

You are arguing with yourself man - and this is the standard, by-the-book Yankee fan defense, but it doesn't change the actions of the organization, it just means they aren't smart enough to recognize that karma is real. It isn't about who won last year or even how many the Yankess have won, its about fair play. It's about a level playing field for all parties concerned, and if that's the case and you beat me then congrats to you, but that's the the case in baseball today, and your beloved Yankees essentially started the downfall and your refusal to acknowledge it doesn't change history. You may not like it, and in typical Yankee fan style you'll probably continue to deny it, but it's true. It's a fact, and I'm sorry if it stings. Facts are facts.


But you play fairly...or maybe some of you don't. I do, and I lobby for fair play, and I will teach my son and daughter to play fairly too. I can only hope that they are not so devoid of morals that they can tip the scales unfairly in their favor and still sleep at night. Some of you can do that I guess. The NFL has the right idea. Baseball is trying desperately to stop what George started but pandoras box was opened there long ago....by...wait for it...the Yankees and George Steinbrenner.

They did it with baseball knowledge. They certainly didn't do it by out bidding your favorite team for a player, because as we all know that isn't possible. I have shown you the numbers and poo poo'd your argument otherwise right here in this very thread. But again, it isn't the results of the cheating...it's the cheating.

Yes, you did say that, but I remain unmad...perhaps you can show me where I got mad? What statement that I made caused you to think I was mad? I think you're screwed in this debate and you know it. ;)

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

Stepping on his grave? LMAO. His passing, while unfortunate, doesn't change his legacy. Am I supposed to say only nice things about him for some amount of time?

Oh, he was a great <cough> man to work for
Oh, he was <cough> patient
Oh, he was kind <cough><cough> to his employees
Oh, he was about winning but <cough> championed fair play
Oh, he was <cough> wrongly convicted of a felony
Oh, he was <cough> wrongly banned from baseball

How much time should I let pass before I continue to show you what an ass he was? Give me a break already.

You go right ahead and honor him for 'all he has done', and I will continue to believe he contributed largely to the mess baseball has become. I'll take the evidence, and you can have a blade of grass from his grave site. How'd that be?

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

You know what SF, I you are entitled to your opinion, just as much as i am entitled to mine. I don't remember being a smartass, or trying to talk down to you, in any of my posts, where as, it seems to me, that that's exactly what you are doing to me. I have never treated you with anything but respect, but go back and read the things you have said to me, and you will see what I am talking about. Your baseball knowledge, you knowing more than me, me being a "typical yankee fan".... If that's the way you talk to people, well, then maybe you should work on it, because it could be interpreted that way, you must agree.

Right now, I'm going to leave this conversation, because honestly, I just don't feel like it. To me, it's just a game, not worth all of this. So have a wonderful weekend, and God bless.

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are turning away from the facts because you choose to. If you respond to a question with completely incorrect answers, such as your list of teams that you say can spend with the Yankees for example, what do you expect?

I have been far more than a casual baseball observer for more than 30 years. My love for the game started when I began playing at 7 years old. I watched my team stink it up for nearly 20 years before they began winning through savvy talent evaluation as evidenced by their drafting of young players and trading for others. They were managed, both on the field and in the front office to win, and they didn't accomplish it through winning bidding wars either.

Baseball is graceful and powerful at the same time. It is a game of both numbers and hunches. It is both subtle and in your face. It is about strategy and it is about skill. It is woven into our culture and history in a way that other sports are not. Even the NFL falls short in this regard. I truly love the game, and what's more I love the competition at a professional level, because those men play the game, by and large, as well as it can be played.

And so, to deface the spirit of that competition by either not fielding the best team possible or by upsetting the natural order of things in a way the big market teams are able to, to be frank, pisses me off. I think this is why I, along with more people than you probably care to admit, take great joy from watching the Diamondbacks beat the Yankees, or watching the Rays give them an honest run for their money (if you'll please pardon the pun). It is, I confess, a 'stick it to the man' mentality that I often resist in the real world but also draws me to the underdog.

Most Yankee fans I know, when presented with the same evidence I have pointed you to, reply with a sheepish and knowing grin, because they know, in their hearts, the truth. They don't like to admit it. That's fine. I know. Still, it doesn't change anything. They Yankees organization still does what it does, within the rules, technically, so they hang their hat on that, but in their heart they know the Pirates have little to no chance.

I love the game, and so I support a reasonable cap and revenue sharing. It is the needs of the many, if you will forgive the Star Trek reference. Now, if you have a valid argument against this, bring it. Don't try and tell me other teams can do the same thing, and don't bring up owners that don't spend all they could or should, and don't deflect the argument towards me, and don't argue the history of the game with me based on assumptions. Don't tell me that you aren't upset about the Yankees clear financial advantage from one side of your mouth and then reveal that the 49ers doing the same thing (to a much lesser degree I might add) upset you, because you lose credibility, and surely you can see that.

If it makes you feel better, let me say this: They Yankees have developed solid talent on their own. As good as anyone's from time to time. There are some very smart baseball people in that organization, and this is true throughout their history. George Steinbrenner fired most of them at some point or other, because he was an unrealistic hot head hell bent on winning at the expense of anything and everything, to include a man's integrity, which he stomped on again and again and again from 1972 'til the day he died, and that's just his baseball legacy. God only knows who he abused back in Cleveland.

But don't manipulate the numbers. Don't tell me there is no such thing as integrity in sports. Don't tell me to just accept the status quo and keep losing. Don't be that guy. Don't be that Yankee fan.

Don't tell me I cannot compare the best pro sports league, the NFL, with one of the worst, MLB, because there is no common ground. That's just silly. If the NFL is the most popular sport in the country, and the numbers certainly suggest that it is, do you think this has much to do with parity? You bet your ass it does. And don't insult me and indicate you wouldn't feel any different if Jerry Jones were allowed to run his team as Steinbrenner ran his.

Yes, my friend, it is just a game, but I am more than a casual observer, and I take pride in being fair and competing with someone on level ground. This is why I have no respect for the Steinbrenner-run New York Yankees. The values aren't there, only the desire to win at any cost, whether it be their own bill or one the other teams end up paying. George says, "Let them suffer so long as I win." And the irony is that it really didn't get him anywhere did it? So what, then, is his legacy?

And don't tell me I'm disrespecting his life. If there is a heaven and hell, you can bet the farm George Steinbrenner has a lot of questions to answer and actions to answer for before St Peter opens the gate. Hell, he may not even make it past the first cloud before they see him coming and lock down heaven.

Re: Yankees owner George Steinbrenner dead...
 

I don't jump on the Lakers because the integrity of basketball is so far down the tubes that it makes taking that league serious a complete and total waste of my time - so I don't bother. The NBA is Mid-South Wrestling. However the Lakers (Yankees) are exhibit "A" in my argument for a salary cap, revenue sharing, and exactly the place George Steinbrenner would have taken baseball had the rest of the league been equally crooked. Thank you for furthering my point.

Do you like the Lakers? Why, or why not?