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Someone else made that happen?

this is a discussion within the Everything Else Community Forum; Originally Posted by ScottF Forget it. This negative ad did exactly what it was supposed to: provide more ammunition for anyone who only wants half of the story. Why be an informed voter when who can just listen to a ...

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Old 07-25-2012, 05:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ScottF View Post
Forget it.
This negative ad did exactly what it was supposed to: provide more ammunition for anyone who only wants half of the story. Why be an informed voter when who can just listen to a negative ad that clearly took quotes out of context and make your decision that way?
This is a bit off topic, but I tried to sit through an entire episode of Glenn Beck's show when it was still on Fox News. Taking things out of context to the extreme. For one segment, he played clips of liberals or democrats, obviously, and explained what they were saying. Sounds harmless enough, I guess, but forget context, he wasn't even playing full sentences. It was incredible. "Here's a sentence fragment, now let me lie to you." I can't believe he managed to stay on as long as he did.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jcp026 View Post
This is a bit off topic, but I tried to sit through an entire episode of Glenn Beck's show when it was still on Fox News. Taking things out of context to the extreme. For one segment, he played clips of liberals or democrats, obviously, and explained what they were saying. Sounds harmless enough, I guess, but forget context, he wasn't even playing full sentences. It was incredible. "Here's a sentence fragment, now let me lie to you." I can't believe he managed to stay on as long as he did.
Keith Olberman anybody? Look they're all circus acts anyway, but you can't throw Beck under the bus without a buddy. I've listened to "Young Turks", and I listen to NPR every morning, and I give Fox and CNN some of my time too.

ITS ALL ENTERTAINMENT. That's the rub. And yes, everything they say has an angle. This is what I speak of when I talk about how sick I am of political 'marketing'. It's ruining the country.

But make nooooo mistake about it. Neither side is less guilty than the other. Personally, I dismiss the opinion of ANYONE who thinks otherwise.

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Old 07-25-2012, 07:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
Keith Olberman anybody? Look they're all circus acts anyway, but you can't throw Beck under the bus without a buddy. I've listened to "Young Turks", and I listen to NPR every morning, and I give Fox and CNN some of my time too.

ITS ALL ENTERTAINMENT. That's the rub. And yes, everything they say has an angle. This is what I speak of when I talk about how sick I am of political 'marketing'. It's ruining the country.

But make nooooo mistake about it. Neither side is less guilty than the other. Personally, I dismiss the opinion of ANYONE who thinks otherwise.
Dude, we both know that the "news" has become more about ratings and revenue and has sacrificed facts for opinions. But would you have called me out if my post had been about Olbermann instead of Beck? I don't doubt you would have thought that both there are commentators on both sides who mislead people, but if I'd called out someone on the left, would you have actually commented? I don't think so.

This WHOLE THREAD is based on deceit and you haven't said anything about that or corrected anyone who supports the view. Even if you do believe this thread is based on the truth, I don't see any comments about Romney making basically the same assertions as Obama.

This thread is based on taking things out of context and I cited the most extreme example I've ever seen. He didn't just take things out of context, he wasn't even terribly subtle about it, HE USED SENTENCE FRAGMENTS! Three and four word snippets. I've never seen anyone else do that.

I generally like you comments, but come on.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by jcp026 View Post
Dude, we both know that the "news" has become more about ratings and revenue and has sacrificed facts for opinions. But would you have called me out if my post had been about Olbermann instead of Beck? I don't doubt you would have thought that both there are commentators on both sides who mislead people, but if I'd called out someone on the left, would you have actually commented? I don't think so.

This WHOLE THREAD is based on deceit and you haven't said anything about that or corrected anyone who supports the view. Even if you do believe this thread is based on the truth, I don't see any comments about Romney making basically the same assertions as Obama.

This thread is based on taking things out of context and I cited the most extreme example I've ever seen. He didn't just take things out of context, he wasn't even terribly subtle about it, HE USED SENTENCE FRAGMENTS! Three and four word snippets. I've never seen anyone else do that.

I generally like you comments, but come on.
jcp, I've read this thread and I don't think saintfan was calling you out. He was making comparisons to your analogy you started about fox news and Glenn Beck.

You can make whatever assumptions about what he might have been thinking - he is human and has political opinions - but seriously he wasn't trying to single you out or call you out.

As for Glenn Beck and Olberman, both were fired or released from their respective news agencies for lying in exactly the manner you described.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:10 PM   #15
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"Someone else made that happen?"

OK, wait a minute. If it weren't for small business owners providing jobs and paying salaries, there wouldn't be anybody paying taxes. Since taxes are used to build roads and bridges, I believe the small business owners DID do it on their own. As a matter of fact, since taxpayer money pays the Presidents salary, his ass couldn't be in office without small business owners. Mr. President...you can kiss my butt.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Halo View Post
jcp, I've read this thread and I don't think saintfan was calling you out. He was making comparisons to your analogy you started about fox news and Glenn Beck.

You can make whatever assumptions about what he might have been thinking - he is human and has political opinions - but seriously he wasn't trying to single you out or call you out.

As for Glenn Beck and Olberman, both were fired or released from their respective news agencies for lying in exactly the manner you described.
My apologies jcp. I was not calling you out. My blood boils when I read 'feaux news' or when I read people raking Rush or Beck over the coals.

Most liberals I know do that. They are incensed by those men, yet they can listen to the same propaganda heard on NPR and CNN and spouted by the likes of Keith Olberman and, for that matter, pretty much any Network Newscast. Whether or not it's 100 percent accurate, Fox news offers a Conservative view that's hard to find on Television. That's just accurate.

Now, I am on record here of calling out the likes of Rush Limbaugh just the same. It's entertainment, plain and simple.

In all honesty, I see a LOT of 'calling out' of the conservative talking heads. Not so much the liberals, and, in all honesty, this is because the media is dominated/saturated with the liberal view. So when a Conservative gets a little sensitive I kinda understand.

To be clear, I was simply evening the playing field by mentioning Olberman. Frankly I loath that man, which saddens me because I remember him from a time when ESPN didn't suck. But I'm not a listener of any of the talking heads from either side. I'm an old broadcaster. I prefer to listen to NPR because I enjoy listening to Steve Inskeep. I believe he is an excellent broadcaster and a pretty darn good reporter - a dying breed by the way - in spite of his employer.

I'm not a card carrying member of either party. I lean Conservative, am liberal in many ways, and am confounded by the far right and far left equally. But when I see somebody roasting Rush or Hannity or Beck I feel obligated to bring one of the uber-liberal names into the conversation. I like to see the responses. It's usually good for a nice laugh.


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Last edited by saintfan; 07-25-2012 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:37 PM   #17
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Hereís the full context of what he said:


Weíve already made a trillion dollarsí worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that donít work, and make government work more efficientlyÖWe can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more Ö

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didnít -look, if youíve been successful, you didnít get there on your own. You didnít get there on your own. Iím always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something Ė there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If youíve got a business. you didnít build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didnít get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we donít do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. Thatís how we funded the GI Bill. Thatís how we created the middle class. Thatís how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. Thatís how we invented the Internet. Thatís how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and thatís the reason Iím running for president Ė because I still believe in that idea. Youíre not on your own, weíre in this together.Ē

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Old 07-25-2012, 11:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
My apologies jcp. I was not calling you out. My blood boils when I read 'feaux news' or when I read people raking Rush or Beck over the coals.

Most liberals I know do that. They are incensed by those men, yet they can listen to the same propaganda heard on NPR and CNN and spouted by the likes of Keith Olberman and, for that matter, pretty much any Network Newscast. Whether or not it's 100 percent accurate, Fox news offers a Conservative view that's hard to find on Television. That's just accurate.

Now, I am on record here of calling out the likes of Rush Limbaugh just the same. It's entertainment, plain and simple.

In all honesty, I see a LOT of 'calling out' of the conservative talking heads. Not so much the liberals, and, in all honesty, this is because the media is dominated/saturated with the liberal view. So when a Conservative gets a little sensitive I kinda understand.

To be clear, I was simply evening the playing field by mentioning Olberman. Frankly I loath that man, which saddens me because I remember him from a time when ESPN didn't suck. But I'm not a listener of any of the talking heads from either side. I'm an old broadcaster. I prefer to listen to NPR because I enjoy listening to Steve Inskeep. I believe he is an excellent broadcaster and a pretty darn good reporter - a dying breed by the way - in spite of his employer.

I'm not a card carrying member of either party. I lean Conservative, am liberal in many ways, and am confounded by the far right and far left equally. But when I see somebody roasting Rush or Hannity or Beck I feel obligated to bring one of the uber-liberal names into the conversation. I like to see the responses. It's usually good for a nice laugh.

I probably overreacted. No worries.
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ScottF View Post
Here’s the full context of what he said:


We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”
I think he's way off base. The early settlers in America tried the 'commune' style of living. It didn't work because somebody thought, hey, I can work twice as hard and reap twice the reward. If the other guy works half as hard and reaps half the reward so be it. To be sure Americans are THE MOST GENEROUS PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, but I'll work hard and make twice as much. THAT, my friend, is the true American Spirit.

What Obama overlooks completely as he's trying to sell his point is risk. Small business owners take risk. LOTS of risk. He's not stupid. He knows that. But that fact doesn't fit his agenda.

Yes, we rise and fall together. Nobody went to the moon on his or her own, but if I may, I think he's expanding severely on the point for the sake of making a point. Some people DID get there on their own, and to that end I think Danno makes an excellent point in his Saints comparison.

Look, my grandpa drove a truck for a living. He hauled supplies to a military base, and before that he hauled logs. Later he took a job driving a truck for a Conoco distributorship and later, Conoco asked him if he wanted to buy it. He did. And a man with a 7th grade education did very well. Who helped him? The guy who built the road he drove his truck on? Is that Obama's point? Because if it is I'm not buying it.

Funny story about Gramps. He is a Dem. As mad as I've EVER seen him was when I got arrested. The only other time I ever saw him even close to that angry was when he was stopped hauling gas one day by a State Trooper. He was given a ticket because the trooper said his tire treads were too worn.

"That little son of a *****! I was driving a truck before his damn parents were born. I've hauled fuel and have had wrecks in that truck. I know how dangerous it is. That little bastard is going to tell ME when I need new tires?"

LOL. Telling the story here doesn't do it justice at all. That's the "big" government I loathe. Somebody needed to make a rule so somebody could sell more tires I guess. Maybe the Firestone folks were lobbying heavy that year, I don't know. It's just damn silly.

Now, the liberal will say the government should protect us from the evil trucker who is recklessly driving around trying to kill people on bald tires. And look, I know that the government has to monitor and regulate things, but I know you get my point.

My grandpa got out of the Gas business because big government made it too challenging to make a living at it. He retired and built apartments. 50 and counting, and oh my GOD you wouldn't believe the tax he has to pay on those apartments. And here comes Obama wanting more? And he justifies it by playing on American Patriotism? He talks about sending a man to the moon? Who does he think he is, JFK?

Hoover Dam? The Golden Gate? Depression era projects that created jobs. More tax on small business? Not even close. No relation. Period. Sorry Mr President, but sell it somewhere else, 'cause this here white boy ain't buyin'.
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Last edited by saintfan; 07-26-2012 at 12:08 AM..
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by saintfan View Post
I think he's way off base. The early settlers in America tried the 'commune' style of living. It didn't work because somebody thought, hey, I can work twice as hard and reap twice the reward. If the other guy works half as hard and reaps half the reward so be it. To be sure Americans are THE MOST GENEROUS PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, but I'll work hard and make twice as much. THAT, my friend, is the true American Spirit.

What Obama overlooks completely as he's trying to sell his point is risk. Small business owners take risk. LOTS of risk. He's not stupid. He knows that. But that fact doesn't fit his agenda.

Yes, we rise and fall together. Nobody went to the moon on his or her own, but if I may, I think he's expanding severely on the point for the sake of making a point. Some people DID get there on their own, and to that end I think Danno makes an excellent point in his Saints comparison.

Look, my grandpa drove a truck for a living. He hauled supplies to a military base, and before that he hauled logs. Later he took a job driving a truck for a Conoco distributorship and later, Conoco asked him if he wanted to buy it. He did. And a man with a 7th grade education did very well. Who helped him? The guy who built the road he drove his truck on? Is that Obama's point? Because if it is I'm not buying it.

Funny story about Gramps. He is a Dem. As mad as I've EVER seen him was when I got arrested. The only other time I ever saw him even close to that angry was when he was stopped hauling gas one day by a State Trooper. He was given a ticket because the trooper said his tire treads were too worn.

"That little son of a *****! I was driving a truck before his damn parents were born. I've hauled fuel and have had wrecks in that truck. I know how dangerous it is. That little bastard is going to tell ME when I need new tires?"

LOL. Telling the story here doesn't do it justice at all. That's the "big" government I loathe. Somebody needed to make a rule so somebody could sell more tires I guess. Maybe the Firestone folks were lobbying heavy that year, I don't know. It's just damn silly.

Now, the liberal will say the government should protect us from the evil trucker who is recklessly driving around trying to kill people on bald tires. And look, I know that the government has to monitor and regulate things, but I know you get my point.

My grandpa got out of the Gas business because big government made it too challenging to make a living at it. He retired and built apartments. 50 and counting, and oh my GOD you wouldn't believe the tax he has to pay on those apartments. And here comes Obama wanting more? And he justifies it by playing on American Patriotism? He talks about sending a man to the moon? Who does he think he is, JFK?

Hoover Dam? The Golden Gate? Depression era projects that created jobs. More tax on small business? Not even close. No relation. Period. Sorry Mr President, but sell it somewhere else, 'cause this here white boy ain't buyin'.
But, to be fair Romney said the same thing.

I think there's a misconception out there. A misconception about what liberals "want." There's a narrative that going back to a 39.6% tax rate for income over $250K (from 35%) is somehow a step down the slippery slope to socialism and then fascism is bogus. When Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower (I almost put Howard) maintained a 90%+ tax rate for the highest earners because he thought the debt was important. He's the last Republican president to have balanced budget also. All, I think, liberals want right now is an acknowledgement that our nearly $16,000,000,000,000 is a problem and we can't JUST cut our way to fiscal sanity. What liberals want is a government that is, at least, top 5 in the world in education. An EPA that has the tools to actually protects the environment and an MMS that isn't in the pocket of the oil industry.

I think I'll be branded "a liberal" for wanting those things, but how do they differ from conservatism? An efficient, effective government that is responsible to ALL THE PEOPLE instead of the wealthiest of the wealthy, sounds like conservatism to me and I doubt any of you disagree with it. A balanced budget, or even a budget surplus, if it goes to paying down the debt. Real Liberty for everyone, in the sense that the the government can't tell you who you can/can't marry. If we ban same-sex marriage...or even polygamy for that matter, it IS on religious grounds and IS religious persecution. Any disagreement there?

If anyone remembers my posts from a different thread, you know I know you know I know we can fix this. And we don't need solutions that fit neatly under the umbrella of big government and we do not need solutions that jive completely with the mantra of slash and burn. Effective. Efficient. Responsive.
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