Someone else made that happen?
 

Someone else made that happen? Business owners know hard work, long hours lead to success


Long hours and hard work helped Joey Vento build a landmark restaurant in Philadelphia from the ground up, but that work ethic may have also sent him to an early grave.

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncsta.../joeyvento.jpg

That's why Eileen Vento's blood boiled when she heard President Obama declare last week that small business owners like her husband owed others for their success.
“That is ridiculous. My husband had $6 in his pocket when he started.” Vento said to FoxNews.com about Joey Vento, who opened Geno’s Steaks in 1966 in the neighborhood of South Philly.
“He worked hard his whole life to build the place up. We made a lot of money. Unfortunately he didn’t get to enjoy it.”
- Eileen Vento, widow of cheesesteak king Joey Vento
“He worked hard his whole life to build the place up. We made a lot of money. Unfortunately, he didn’t get to enjoy it,” she added.
Vento worked at the shop right up until a heart attack killed him last August at age 71. His widow believes 45 years of toil to build a prosperous life for his family took a toll on him. She bristled at the comment Obama made during a campaign stop in Roanoke, Va., last Friday when he said business owners owed some of their success to help along the way, noting that government often provides the infrastructure needed for success.
“If you got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen,” Obama said. "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive."
The comments created a backlash among small business owners and others across the country who feel that entrepreneurship is the backbone of the American economy. Vento's sister-in-law said Joey Vento owed his success to his own hard work and the loyal customers he cultivated.
“He went there at 3 or 4 in the morning and stayed until 11 every night. He did it seven days a week,” said Diana Vergagini. “And when he wasn’t there he'd call in at every shift change asking, ‘How did we do? What’s the bread count? What’s the steak count?’”
Vento gained national notoriety in 2006 when he posted a sign at the order window that read, “This is America: When ordering please ‘speak English.’”


Read more: Someone else made that happen? Business owners know hard work, long hours lead to success -- and an early grave | Fox News

Just further proof that the only thing dumber than Obama's statements are the people who defend him.:p

I ate there 2 and a half years ago. It made me proud. Seriously.

Enjoy.

You didn't fark that. Somebody else made that happen. @ TigerDroppings.com

Hey, guys. This "you didn't make that happen" controversy is B.S. He was saying that businesses didn't build roads, bridges, etc. It got picked up by the Romney campaign, which is understandable, but it was also pick up and selectively edited by a supposed news organization (Fox News). Romney slammed Obama for not giving small business owners credit for their achievements and then made the same argument the president did. Not a real story.

I didn't get a chance to comment at the end of the birther thread. Here it is. Colin Powell, even with the aluminum tube smudge on his resume, would be a great president. John McCain, circa 2000, would have been a great president. Not as much in 2008 or now. He's been subject to the same forces that push most politicians to the political extremes. There was a time when the most conservative democrat was more conservative than the most liberal republican, and vice versa. That's when we worked together.

His comments are similar to a Falcon fan claiming the Saints didn't win the 2009 Superbowl because without the NFL, Stadiums, planes for travel, roads for fans to drive to the games on etc..., the Saints wouldn't have been able to win any games.

Therefore the Saints did NOT win the 2009 Superbowl.

In fact, with that illogical truism no one built anything anytime anywhere.

It was a statement targetinging class envy by a weak unqualified President who has nothing left to save his presidency except class warfare and race baiting. Unfortunately there are plenty of fools out there that fall for it.

Stop it.

OK

Forget it.
This negative ad did exactly what it was supposed to: provide more ammunition for anyone who only wants half of the story. Why be an informed voter when who can just listen to a negative ad that clearly took quotes out of context and make your decision that way?

This is a bit off topic, but I tried to sit through an entire episode of Glenn Beck's show when it was still on Fox News. Taking things out of context to the extreme. For one segment, he played clips of liberals or democrats, obviously, and explained what they were saying. Sounds harmless enough, I guess, but forget context, he wasn't even playing full sentences. It was incredible. "Here's a sentence fragment, now let me lie to you." I can't believe he managed to stay on as long as he did.

Keith Olberman anybody? Look they're all circus acts anyway, but you can't throw Beck under the bus without a buddy. I've listened to "Young Turks", and I listen to NPR every morning, and I give Fox and CNN some of my time too.

ITS ALL ENTERTAINMENT. That's the rub. And yes, everything they say has an angle. This is what I speak of when I talk about how sick I am of political 'marketing'. It's ruining the country.

But make nooooo mistake about it. Neither side is less guilty than the other. Personally, I dismiss the opinion of ANYONE who thinks otherwise.

Dude, we both know that the "news" has become more about ratings and revenue and has sacrificed facts for opinions. But would you have called me out if my post had been about Olbermann instead of Beck? I don't doubt you would have thought that both there are commentators on both sides who mislead people, but if I'd called out someone on the left, would you have actually commented? I don't think so.

This WHOLE THREAD is based on deceit and you haven't said anything about that or corrected anyone who supports the view. Even if you do believe this thread is based on the truth, I don't see any comments about Romney making basically the same assertions as Obama.

This thread is based on taking things out of context and I cited the most extreme example I've ever seen. He didn't just take things out of context, he wasn't even terribly subtle about it, HE USED SENTENCE FRAGMENTS! Three and four word snippets. I've never seen anyone else do that.

I generally like you comments, but come on.

jcp, I've read this thread and I don't think saintfan was calling you out. He was making comparisons to your analogy you started about fox news and Glenn Beck.

You can make whatever assumptions about what he might have been thinking - he is human and has political opinions - but seriously he wasn't trying to single you out or call you out.

As for Glenn Beck and Olberman, both were fired or released from their respective news agencies for lying in exactly the manner you described.

"Someone else made that happen?"

OK, wait a minute. If it weren't for small business owners providing jobs and paying salaries, there wouldn't be anybody paying taxes. Since taxes are used to build roads and bridges, I believe the small business owners DID do it on their own. As a matter of fact, since taxpayer money pays the Presidents salary, his ass couldn't be in office without small business owners. Mr. President...you can kiss my butt.

My apologies jcp. I was not calling you out. My blood boils when I read 'feaux news' or when I read people raking Rush or Beck over the coals.

Most liberals I know do that. They are incensed by those men, yet they can listen to the same propaganda heard on NPR and CNN and spouted by the likes of Keith Olberman and, for that matter, pretty much any Network Newscast. Whether or not it's 100 percent accurate, Fox news offers a Conservative view that's hard to find on Television. That's just accurate.

Now, I am on record here of calling out the likes of Rush Limbaugh just the same. It's entertainment, plain and simple.

In all honesty, I see a LOT of 'calling out' of the conservative talking heads. Not so much the liberals, and, in all honesty, this is because the media is dominated/saturated with the liberal view. So when a Conservative gets a little sensitive I kinda understand.

To be clear, I was simply evening the playing field by mentioning Olberman. Frankly I loath that man, which saddens me because I remember him from a time when ESPN didn't suck. But I'm not a listener of any of the talking heads from either side. I'm an old broadcaster. I prefer to listen to NPR because I enjoy listening to Steve Inskeep. I believe he is an excellent broadcaster and a pretty darn good reporter - a dying breed by the way - in spite of his employer.

I'm not a card carrying member of either party. I lean Conservative, am liberal in many ways, and am confounded by the far right and far left equally. But when I see somebody roasting Rush or Hannity or Beck I feel obligated to bring one of the uber-liberal names into the conversation. I like to see the responses. It's usually good for a nice laugh.

:peace:

Here’s the full context of what he said:


We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

I probably overreacted. No worries.

I think he's way off base. The early settlers in America tried the 'commune' style of living. It didn't work because somebody thought, hey, I can work twice as hard and reap twice the reward. If the other guy works half as hard and reaps half the reward so be it. To be sure Americans are THE MOST GENEROUS PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, but I'll work hard and make twice as much. THAT, my friend, is the true American Spirit.

What Obama overlooks completely as he's trying to sell his point is risk. Small business owners take risk. LOTS of risk. He's not stupid. He knows that. But that fact doesn't fit his agenda.

Yes, we rise and fall together. Nobody went to the moon on his or her own, but if I may, I think he's expanding severely on the point for the sake of making a point. Some people DID get there on their own, and to that end I think Danno makes an excellent point in his Saints comparison.

Look, my grandpa drove a truck for a living. He hauled supplies to a military base, and before that he hauled logs. Later he took a job driving a truck for a Conoco distributorship and later, Conoco asked him if he wanted to buy it. He did. And a man with a 7th grade education did very well. Who helped him? The guy who built the road he drove his truck on? Is that Obama's point? Because if it is I'm not buying it.

Funny story about Gramps. He is a Dem. As mad as I've EVER seen him was when I got arrested. The only other time I ever saw him even close to that angry was when he was stopped hauling gas one day by a State Trooper. He was given a ticket because the trooper said his tire treads were too worn.

"That little son of a *****! I was driving a truck before his damn parents were born. I've hauled fuel and have had wrecks in that truck. I know how dangerous it is. That little bastard is going to tell ME when I need new tires?"

LOL. Telling the story here doesn't do it justice at all. That's the "big" government I loathe. Somebody needed to make a rule so somebody could sell more tires I guess. Maybe the Firestone folks were lobbying heavy that year, I don't know. It's just damn silly.

Now, the liberal will say the government should protect us from the evil trucker who is recklessly driving around trying to kill people on bald tires. And look, I know that the government has to monitor and regulate things, but I know you get my point.

My grandpa got out of the Gas business because big government made it too challenging to make a living at it. He retired and built apartments. 50 and counting, and oh my GOD you wouldn't believe the tax he has to pay on those apartments. And here comes Obama wanting more? And he justifies it by playing on American Patriotism? He talks about sending a man to the moon? Who does he think he is, JFK?

Hoover Dam? The Golden Gate? Depression era projects that created jobs. More tax on small business? Not even close. No relation. Period. Sorry Mr President, but sell it somewhere else, 'cause this here white boy ain't buyin'.

But, to be fair Romney said the same thing.

I think there's a misconception out there. A misconception about what liberals "want." There's a narrative that going back to a 39.6% tax rate for income over $250K (from 35%) is somehow a step down the slippery slope to socialism and then fascism is bogus. When Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower (I almost put Howard) maintained a 90%+ tax rate for the highest earners because he thought the debt was important. He's the last Republican president to have balanced budget also. All, I think, liberals want right now is an acknowledgement that our nearly $16,000,000,000,000 is a problem and we can't JUST cut our way to fiscal sanity. What liberals want is a government that is, at least, top 5 in the world in education. An EPA that has the tools to actually protects the environment and an MMS that isn't in the pocket of the oil industry.

I think I'll be branded "a liberal" for wanting those things, but how do they differ from conservatism? An efficient, effective government that is responsible to ALL THE PEOPLE instead of the wealthiest of the wealthy, sounds like conservatism to me and I doubt any of you disagree with it. A balanced budget, or even a budget surplus, if it goes to paying down the debt. Real Liberty for everyone, in the sense that the the government can't tell you who you can/can't marry. If we ban same-sex marriage...or even polygamy for that matter, it IS on religious grounds and IS religious persecution. Any disagreement there?

If anyone remembers my posts from a different thread, you know I know you know I know we can fix this. And we don't need solutions that fit neatly under the umbrella of big government and we do not need solutions that jive completely with the mantra of slash and burn. Effective. Efficient. Responsive.

I share a number of views with my liberal friends. We disagree on plenty though. Remember I'm not a card-carrying member of either party. I used to be. Then I got wise. Here's a sample of a conversation I had recently:

Me: Section 8 is being abused and that abuse should stop.
Friend: How are you going to stop it?
Mr: If you're on the dole, you are responsible to the people paying your way. If, for example, you're benefiting from section 8, you have no business with 52" 3000 dollar televisions, cell phones (the expensive 'smart' ones), fancy Rims on your BMW and stereos that cost more than my mortgage.
Friend: Hey, that's wrong. You can't judge people like that.
Me: The hell I can't. Why can't I?
Friend: Because you don't know where they got that stuff. Maybe their Uncle bought those things for them.
Me: Cool. Then they can go live with their Uncle and get off my taxes.

I have a neighbor who's section 8. Consider too that my electric bill is 350 dollars a month. I keep the thermostat on 78 or above to keep the damn thing from running all the time. My neighbor's system NEVER...STOPS...RUNNING. And when you stand on their porch and someone opens the door, the polar bears come out and start grazing. That's how cold it is in there. They are all obese too, not that it matters. But here's the rub. I am subsidizing that for them. PG&E charges me more as I cross usage thresholds through the month. They do this so my neighbors can get their electricity at a cheaper rate.

My liberal friend thinks I have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, think that if a customer is on a reduced rate they should install 'smart' thermostats that can be locked in at a given temperature. This will force them to use less, which will (maybe) ease my bill because I won't have to fund quite so much of theirs.

Friend: You can't do that. That just isn't right.
Me: The hell it isn't. I don't mind helping those who help themselves, but if I'm paying for your electricity, I have every damn right to enforce policies that control how much of it you use.

Now, to me, that's the biggest difference between me and liberals. To me, what I'm saying makes perfect sense. In my opinion, the only reason things aren't right is because, in my opinion, the politicians market hard, and I mean HARD for the 'poor' vote.

No. I don't mind helping. I don't think most people mind. We have a generation of people who have grown up satisfied to milk the program for all they can. If Obama truly want's to fix the budget, I can give him a thousand places to start that don't have a damn thing to do with placing an even heavier burden on people who in many cases risked everything they had to succeed.

For those that actually believe there have been trillions in cuts should look no further than the national debt and deficits! If we were to retreat to 2008 spending levels, which are still outrageous by themselves, we probably would not be in the dire mess we find ourselves in. You could confiscate every single penny from the wealthy "1%-ers" and still not be able to pay off our debt and balance the budget. Spending by a democratically controlled Congress during Obama's first two years has increased in excess of 25%. We are not even mentioning that Senator Reid has not even had the balls to pass a budget in the Senate going on 4 years now!

In this particular context, it is then true we did not do this by ourselves (get ourselves in this much debt, for those in Rio Linda). Are you ready for another round of raising the debt limit discussions right prior to the elections?

I don't have any problem with "smart thermostats" for people getting government assistance, but doesn't that sound like the government control and infringements on liberty that republicans are afraid of?

No, because in my perfect world such a device is implemented or imposed on people receiving government assistance or are being subsidized on my dime.

Now, If I'm paying my bill straight up and big brother wants to impose some limit on where I set my thermostat because the global warming people think I'm killing seals at 75 degrees versus 78, then yeah, I have a problem with that.

But those two things are clearly separate. My liberal buddies disagree. :p

Where's the line, though? We bailed out banks and Wall Street, so what kind of limits can we impose on them? So far, none that I see. What about farm subsidies, public schools, and student loans? If you get insurance through you employer, it is subsidized. It seems like the only time we can attach strings to public funds is when it goes to poor people. That might not be the case, but it does look that way.

I agree with conservatives that it is a slippery slope, but where does it start sloping?

I know what you mean. I truly do. Common sense goes a long way. We'll never get there when special interests and lobbying interfere with the political agendas of our elected officials. Those things dictate nearly every aspect or action of the men and women in Washington. That has to stop. Being a Congressman (or Woman) or a Senator should NOT be a profession.

I think it's less about being professional politicians, because I think there is something to be said for experience, and more about who funds the campaigns. As long as it is special interests, big business, and the financial industry and not ALL OF THE PEOPLE, things won't change.

Being a politician should not be a lifetime gig IMO. Term limits. When you're done, you're done. Get off the dole. SERVE, because you want to serve, then get out of the way and let the next man (or woman) up serve. These people get too comfortable.

In the end it's all our fault. The fault of the people. We have no one or no thing to blame. We are required to do something about a government that increasingly wants to dictate our freedom. Yet no one is doing anything. We gripe on web forums, but we aren't really doing anything.

Maybe the Hippies had it right, at least to some degree. I don't know. I see a lot more confounding stupidity in the decisions of our Government these days than I do common sense real-teeth efforts to fix problems.

For example, did we really need to turn health care into yet another social program? Of course we didn't. We need to FIX the problems, and we know what they are, but we don't have a single politician in Washington willing to put his or her neck on the line amongst the other wolves in the room to say it - to DO something about it. They aren't going to risk their reelection campaign and extend themselves into that abyss.

Term limits might just remove the career-minded approach. They might actually start functioning the way they're supposed to function. Then again, Americans have to be intelligent enough to filter out campaign rhetoric and, frankly, more and more I'm thinking the average American actually wants what's free rather than what's right.

I'm no poly-sci major, and for sure there are lots of things I don't understand about the process, but I can tell you it can't go on like this forever. American's have forgotten how to be responsible for themselves, and the government increasingly encourages this behavior. This isn't the hard-working do or die give your all pick yourself up by your bootstraps America my Grandpa grew up in. America is in a tail spin, and if the politicians are to blame, the people are ultimately responsible. We not only have a right to overthrow these self-minded buffoons, we have an OBLIGATION to do it.

Maybe they do get too comfortable, but I think that part of the problem is caused by gerrymandered "safe seats." If you're the Republican nominee for a Republican "safe seat" then you win. Doesn't matter what your views may or may not be.

The politicians have incentives NOT to fix the problems. Here's a hypothetical situation:
Here's a tax break for you Mr. Oilman, but I could only get it extended for two years, so you're going to need to give me and my party money and we'll see if we can get it extended when the time comes. Just so you don't get the wrong idea, Mr. Oilman works on Wall Street.

And there's, at least from my perspective, our biggest problem. Incentives FOR politicians to do a bad job. "Republic Lost: How Money Corrupts Congress and a Plan to Fix It" by Lawrence Lessig is probably the most important book I've ever read on anything...ever.

About the recent health care reform...it's really just health insurance reform. And besides that, it's not really socialized health care. Stay with me here. I feel like I'm losing you. Just hang in there.

So at the extreme right of the ideological spectrum is a Corporatist Fascism and people usually think Communism sits at the extreme left, but since real Communism (a utopia) cannot exist, how can it sit on this spectrum? At the far left is Extreme Socialism and if you go just far enough and try really hard to achieve a real communist state, you end up at what I call "Accidental Fascism." No more or less fascist than the Corporate Fascism on the right. So our spectrum should really sit on a closed loop.

With that being said, the President's health care law is closer to the Corporatist Fascism than the Accidental. The main object people have to the law is the "individual mandate." Unless you're poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or old enough to qualify for Medicare, you HAVE TO BUY PRIVATE INSURANCE. Corporatist all the way. Wall Street/bank bailouts...corporatist. Corporate welfare clearly corporatist.

So that slippery slop I talk about goes both ways. Picture a cone with a board balanced on top. The top of the cone isn't exactly pointy, there is a bit of a flat surface, but there isn't a ton of room to maneuver. We exist on that flat surface, but if we move too far left or right we lose our balance and slide down that slope. And either way it goes, the result is the same.

Part of the problem with the public, and I can blame them (or us) for this, is the way the human brain works. I'm reading "The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided By Politics and Religion" by Jonathan Haidt and I think he's nailed it. The reason there seems to be a different set of facts for conservatives and liberals, the reasons, for instance, why even though you may not be able to find anyone who could be considered a victim if gay marriage is legalized, you still oppose it because you feel it in your gut. I'm not doing a good job of explaining it, but trust me, he does.

Any way, another part of the problem, and it might stem from the previous paragraph, is how willing people on either side are to assume the worst about their political opposition. How can republicans be expected to work with a president who is actively trying to destroy the country and secretly pals around with terrorists, etc? And how can democrats be expected to negotiate with paranoid, gay-hating, racists that don't care for the poor?

It's too much to think we can change the way peoples' brains work. But it's not too much to push for some of the reforms I've mentioned. I'll mention them again. Districts set by independent outside organizations. Lessig-style campaign finance reform. The reforms of Congress that Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein talk about in "It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided with the New Politics of Extremism," as well as the reforms that they mention that would improve our election process. Um...the end.

I totally felt the same way, especially about U.S. Senators, until I came to the realization of why most democracies are set up the way ours is.

Congressmen usually have a shorter run in politics. Some have extended stays, but there's a lot more turnover in the House compared to the Senate.

Senators are technically expected to be in office for long periods of time, almost a career position. Senators balance out the House of Representatives with fewer Senators and longer runs. They are supposed to be the older, wiser group, less activist and wanting more peaceable consistency in overall governance of the country over time and through President after President.

So the House is faster, more activist, more extreme, and the Senate slower, wiser, and more "elder statesmen" type.

There is corruption on all sides of government, and anywhere there are human beings around - that will always be the case. But apparently without the long running "career" statesmen senators and representatives, both house and senate would really burn each other up and The People would be stuck with more "mess" from each administration than we would ever be able to solve or clean up.

Just a sidebar....

It is my opinion (and that's all it is really), that the longer these guys hang out in Washington the more out of touch with reality they become. I get why things are what they are, and I think the framers knew what they were doing, however in the beginning it was truly about serving.

It hasn't been about serving for a very long time.

Two terms in the Senate is what, 12 years? I'm sorry but drastic measures need to be taken. The politicians get too comfortable. Their cronies get too comfortable. Move them along. Remove the desire to protect a position with people with new ideas who want to implement them - real solutions to serious problems.

The whole idea behind term limits at all is to limit corruption. It seems to me we need to do more to limit corruption, because it's rampant in Washington, and so I'm fully supportive of the idea.

And those unfamiliar with the benefits these fools get...FOR LIFE...should get familiar with them. It's insane. Maybe I should start a new thread. LOL

The most famous words of Obama's presidency

From a friend watching the Olympics: "How about that Michael Phelps? But let's remember he didn't win all those medals, someone else did. After all, he and I swam in public pools, built by state employees using tax dollars. He got training from the USOC, and ate food grown by the Department of Agriculture. He should play fair and share his medals with people like me, who can barely keep my head above water, let alone swim."
The note was merry and ironic. And as the games progress, we'll be hearing a lot more of this kind of thing, because President Obama's comment—"You didn't build that"—is the political gift that keeps on giving.
They are now the most famous words he has said in his presidency. And oh, how he wishes they weren't.


Read more: The most famous words of Obama's presidency | Fox News




Originally posted in the WSJ

"You Olympians know, however, that you didn't get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters, and brothers encouraged your hopes. Coaches guided. Communities built venues and organized competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We've already cheered the Olympians, let's also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities." -Mitt Romney

And then, when bashing the president for saying that small-businesses don't build roads and bridges, Romney echoed the same sentiment.

Come on, dude.

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

I LOATHE Liberals.

Know that. When you are dealing with AlaskaSaints, you are dealing with and ABLE Veteran who loathes liberals.

Fair. Not a hand-out but a hand-up. Welfare. EBT. Food Stamps. Section 8 housing. Alaska Permanent Dividend Fund. Free lunch program. Handicap parking for non-paraplegics. Handicap parking period. Equal Opportunity Employment. Social Services. Social experimenting... An on and on and on.

I loathe these things.

Alaska

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

It's a welfare state AlaskaSaints. And it's getting worse. We are making bad, BAD decisions. In California, for example, they've stopped teaching Civics, among other things, because they "can't afford it".

Seriously.

But they can fund all those things you mentioned, and out here in the "People's Republic" they are funding much MUCH more. It is maddening and it is insane and it needs to be stopped.

It's funny. All the uber-liberals in the Bay Area live over in Marin County, where they voted and were adamant about keeping OUT public transportation like BART. LOL

People need to read the damn Constitution. Then again, half the people casting votes in this country never have, and never will. America is on the hell express, and it ain't stopping any time soon from what I can tell unless or until the people of this country TAKE IT BACK.

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, Kennedy
that group includes the authors of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

Once you get beyond Lincoln you're dealing with a different kind of liberal I'm afraid.

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

Very true.
My point was that there have been great men from that side, as well as the right. 'Loathing' either side is divisive and counterproductive. (welcome to America, 2012)

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

Yep, todays liberals would consider those guys right wing extremists.

Re: Someone else made that happen?
 

Free lunch? Really? For a while in elementary school I didn't have free lunch and as a consequence I DIDN'T HAVE ANY LUNCH! I guess if I was really hungry I could have eaten out of the trash, right? You're a moron. If you weren't a veteran I'd have no respect for you at all.