Birthers

jcp026 · 07-23-2012, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

... that pretty much sums it up for me & I especially like the 'regulate politicians' viewpoint ... some kind of term-limits would work wonders at unclogging the log jam you see daily in Congress ... serve your country to the best of your ability, then go home! ... they make the military retire after 20yrs, why not Senators or Representatives?

I don't disagree, but I think term limits for members of congress were deemed unconstitutional a while back. A system of publicly financed campaigns would, hopefully, do wonders. A system that makes politicians and potential politicians dependent on the people. Also, in Australia, 96% of people show up at the poles. 96%! It's not magic; we know how they did it and we can do it too. We don't need "safe-seats" for our representatives, we need competition. Getting rid of gerrymandering is doable. We don't need red states, blue states, and red and blue districts. We need a purple country, where the best candidate with the best ideas wins the nomination and, hopefully, the election.

SaintsBro · 07-24-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

It's truly scary, what things in Washington have become. Our nation is more diverse than ever, and that is a contributing factor, but those politicians aren't there to serve anything other than their own backsides. It's maddening.

We need a leader. Not a good marketer. Not a good speech writer. Not a guy that looks good on TV. We are desperate for one. Where is he/she?

That is a very good question. Where is he/she.

Colin Powell could have been such a leader, he would have made an awesome president IMHO, but he got thrown under the bus by the Republicans with the "aluminum tubes" business and then the Tea Party reviled him further, for speaking common sense instead of towing the party line of Tea Party dogma. Numerous "Blue Dog" Democrats had a shot at being bi-partisan, and were primary-challenged by their own party and then nuked by the rise of the Tea Party in 2010, making them a dwindling and largely irrelevant group today. John McCain in 2000 was very well respected and was not hated by Democrats at the time (and still is respected by many today as a voice of reason) and would very likely have defeated Al Gore in 2000. But Karl Rove and the religious right destroyed McCain with negative attack ads in the 2000 primary season, in favor of the less experienced, more hard-right George W. Bush... McCain in 2000 was an extremely viable candidate, and would have made for a VERY different decade in America IMHO, but by the time McCain ran again in 2008 it was too late, the damage had already been done.

Many on the right side hate and revile her, but in her actual track record Hillary is actually a pragmatic moderate and a decent statesperson...But of course the Democrats dumped her in favor of an unproven candidate with whom the Republicans (driven by the Tea Party) have openly declared they will choose not to work with him at all. In 2004 Howard Dean had a track record of being socially liberal, while fiscally conservative, which is in line with what polling data suggests that "average Americans" have said they want, or what works best with leading a divided country such as ours. If the country is evenly split, then socially liberal, fiscally conservative policies are the historically proven way to go, at least based on the past. Dean's actual track record as governor was moderate and implemented many Republican fiscal ideas...he had endorsements from elements of the left (Al Gore) and elements of the right (NRA)....but then he kind of imploded with The Scream, and the media on both sides absolutely torched him, instead of saying, hey, well at least the guy is human.

So it seems to me, the potential for real leaders are there. It's just not being implemented on either side.

Danno · 07-24-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by SaintsBro

That is a very good question. Where is he/she.

Colin Powell could have been such a leader, he would have made an awesome president IMHO, but he got thrown under the bus by the Republicans with the "aluminum tubes" business and then the Tea Party reviled him further, for speaking common sense instead of towing the party line of Tea Party dogma. Numerous "Blue Dog" Democrats had a shot at being bi-partisan, and were primary-challenged by their own party and then nuked by the rise of the Tea Party in 2010, making them a dwindling and largely irrelevant group today. John McCain in 2000 was very well respected and was not hated by Democrats at the time (and still is respected by many today as a voice of reason) and would very likely have defeated Al Gore in 2000. But Karl Rove and the religious right destroyed McCain with negative attack ads in the 2000 primary season, in favor of the less experienced, more hard-right George W. Bush... McCain in 2000 was an extremely viable candidate, and would have made for a VERY different decade in America IMHO, but by the time McCain ran again in 2008 it was too late, the damage had already been done.

Many on the right side hate and revile her, but in her actual track record Hillary is actually a pragmatic moderate and a decent statesperson...But of course the Democrats dumped her in favor of an unproven candidate with whom the Republicans (driven by the Tea Party) have openly declared they will choose not to work with him at all. In 2004 Howard Dean had a track record of being socially liberal, while fiscally conservative, which is in line with what polling data suggests that "average Americans" have said they want, or what works best with leading a divided country such as ours. If the country is evenly split, then socially liberal, fiscally conservative policies are the historically proven way to go, at least based on the past. Dean's actual track record as governor was moderate and implemented many Republican fiscal ideas...he had endorsements from elements of the left (Al Gore) and elements of the right (NRA)....but then he kind of imploded with The Scream, and the media on both sides absolutely torched him, instead of saying, hey, well at least the guy is human.

So it seems to me, the potential for real leaders are there. It's just not being implemented on either side.

Gawd this post is so full of BS my eyes are turning brown.

Name one thing the TEA party actually stands for that you don't like.

George W hard right? Are you freaking kidding me? The hard right despised GW for his frequent caving to the left and his spending like a Democrat.

My gawd I didn't think anyone could be this mislead. I guess thats how a Marxist like Obama comes into power. Hitler called you guys useful idiots. I just disagree with the useful part.

Halo · 07-24-2012, 05:01 PM

This birther thread has digressed into GOP vs. Demo name calling... it was about birthers guys.

Sadly, thread closed.

07-23-2012, 09:34 PM	#61
jcp026 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 950	Originally Posted by SloMotion ... that pretty much sums it up for me & I especially like the 'regulate politicians' viewpoint ... some kind of term-limits would work wonders at unclogging the log jam you see daily in Congress ... serve your country to the best of your ability, then go home! ... they make the military retire after 20yrs, why not Senators or Representatives? I don't disagree, but I think term limits for members of congress were deemed unconstitutional a while back. A system of publicly financed campaigns would, hopefully, do wonders. A system that makes politicians and potential politicians dependent on the people. Also, in Australia, 96% of people show up at the poles. 96%! It's not magic; we know how they did it and we can do it too. We don't need "safe-seats" for our representatives, we need competition. Getting rid of gerrymandering is doable. We don't need red states, blue states, and red and blue districts. We need a purple country, where the best candidate with the best ideas wins the nomination and, hopefully, the election. saintfan likes this.
jcp026 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 950

07-24-2012, 12:28 PM	#62
SaintsBro Site Donor Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: in line with my ridiculous CLEAR PLASTIC BAG Posts: 3,650 Blog Entries: 3	Originally Posted by saintfan It's truly scary, what things in Washington have become. Our nation is more diverse than ever, and that is a contributing factor, but those politicians aren't there to serve anything other than their own backsides. It's maddening. We need a leader. Not a good marketer. Not a good speech writer. Not a guy that looks good on TV. We are desperate for one. Where is he/she? That is a very good question. Where is he/she. Colin Powell could have been such a leader, he would have made an awesome president IMHO, but he got thrown under the bus by the Republicans with the "aluminum tubes" business and then the Tea Party reviled him further, for speaking common sense instead of towing the party line of Tea Party dogma. Numerous "Blue Dog" Democrats had a shot at being bi-partisan, and were primary-challenged by their own party and then nuked by the rise of the Tea Party in 2010, making them a dwindling and largely irrelevant group today. John McCain in 2000 was very well respected and was not hated by Democrats at the time (and still is respected by many today as a voice of reason) and would very likely have defeated Al Gore in 2000. But Karl Rove and the religious right destroyed McCain with negative attack ads in the 2000 primary season, in favor of the less experienced, more hard-right George W. Bush... McCain in 2000 was an extremely viable candidate, and would have made for a VERY different decade in America IMHO, but by the time McCain ran again in 2008 it was too late, the damage had already been done. Many on the right side hate and revile her, but in her actual track record Hillary is actually a pragmatic moderate and a decent statesperson...But of course the Democrats dumped her in favor of an unproven candidate with whom the Republicans (driven by the Tea Party) have openly declared they will choose not to work with him at all. In 2004 Howard Dean had a track record of being socially liberal, while fiscally conservative, which is in line with what polling data suggests that "average Americans" have said they want, or what works best with leading a divided country such as ours. If the country is evenly split, then socially liberal, fiscally conservative policies are the historically proven way to go, at least based on the past. Dean's actual track record as governor was moderate and implemented many Republican fiscal ideas...he had endorsements from elements of the left (Al Gore) and elements of the right (NRA)....but then he kind of imploded with The Scream, and the media on both sides absolutely torched him, instead of saying, hey, well at least the guy is human. So it seems to me, the potential for real leaders are there. It's just not being implemented on either side. ScottF likes this.

07-24-2012, 03:00 PM	#63
Danno Site Donor 2014 Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,640	Originally Posted by SaintsBro That is a very good question. Where is he/she. Colin Powell could have been such a leader, he would have made an awesome president IMHO, but he got thrown under the bus by the Republicans with the "aluminum tubes" business and then the Tea Party reviled him further, for speaking common sense instead of towing the party line of Tea Party dogma. Numerous "Blue Dog" Democrats had a shot at being bi-partisan, and were primary-challenged by their own party and then nuked by the rise of the Tea Party in 2010, making them a dwindling and largely irrelevant group today. John McCain in 2000 was very well respected and was not hated by Democrats at the time (and still is respected by many today as a voice of reason) and would very likely have defeated Al Gore in 2000. But Karl Rove and the religious right destroyed McCain with negative attack ads in the 2000 primary season, in favor of the less experienced, more hard-right George W. Bush... McCain in 2000 was an extremely viable candidate, and would have made for a VERY different decade in America IMHO, but by the time McCain ran again in 2008 it was too late, the damage had already been done. Many on the right side hate and revile her, but in her actual track record Hillary is actually a pragmatic moderate and a decent statesperson...But of course the Democrats dumped her in favor of an unproven candidate with whom the Republicans (driven by the Tea Party) have openly declared they will choose not to work with him at all. In 2004 Howard Dean had a track record of being socially liberal, while fiscally conservative, which is in line with what polling data suggests that "average Americans" have said they want, or what works best with leading a divided country such as ours. If the country is evenly split, then socially liberal, fiscally conservative policies are the historically proven way to go, at least based on the past. Dean's actual track record as governor was moderate and implemented many Republican fiscal ideas...he had endorsements from elements of the left (Al Gore) and elements of the right (NRA)....but then he kind of imploded with The Scream, and the media on both sides absolutely torched him, instead of saying, hey, well at least the guy is human. So it seems to me, the potential for real leaders are there. It's just not being implemented on either side. Gawd this post is so full of BS my eyes are turning brown. Name one thing the TEA party actually stands for that you don't like. George W hard right? Are you freaking kidding me? The hard right despised GW for his frequent caving to the left and his spending like a Democrat. My gawd I didn't think anyone could be this mislead. I guess thats how a Marxist like Obama comes into power. Hitler called you guys useful idiots. I just disagree with the useful part.

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07-24-2012, 05:01 PM	#64
Halo Site Donor MONTHLY Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 20,208 Blog Entries: 45	This birther thread has digressed into GOP vs. Demo name calling... it was about birthers guys. Sadly, thread closed.