.. well, it's all good that you side with Al Davis on this one, being that the Raiders win the SB every year...
... you are sooo outraged because fans don't want Pacman in N.O., and you go on a rant without thinking about the situation...
Let me ask you one question: how many interceptions did Pacman make for the Titans last year?
I'm glad that you think that it's good that I side with Al Davis and his "just win baby" philosophy. I'm glad we agree on that because you don't have to be Einstein to understand this equation: Al Davis + Raiders = 3 Super Bowl wins, 4 AFC Championships, 1 AFL Championship, 15 Division Championships > John Mecom & Tom Benson + Saints = 3 Division Championships. It would be foolish to question the Raiders success so I'm glad you agree with me.
I'm sorry Mr. Tobias, I think you're mistaken. I'm not "outraged" over anything. It would take alot more than fans not liking a grown man who calls himself Pacman for me to get "outraged". I assure you Mr. Tobias, I am quite calm. I simply posted a message expressing my thoughts on Saints fans not wanting low character players that could help us win a Super Bowl. I merely stated that after all of these years of losing maybe we shouldn't be so worried about having a team full of choir boys. I pointed out that if the best franchise in football, the New England Patriots, doesn't mind bringing in bad guys, then why should we? Why not follow their lead and take a few risks in order to get some rewards? They can get away with it because they have a high character team, well so do we. One bad apple will not spoil our team because Drew, Deuce, and Co. wouldn't let that happen.
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I'm all for giving Pac Man a shot.. I'm not big on Shockey bc his team won 4 straight road playoff games without him.. including a superbowl.. We already signed 2 tight ends any way..
Tell you what, sign packman. BUT if he gets suspended for anything except his play he agrees to forfeit his pay. You know the way he plays he will get one or two games off for hits. Then I agree. Sign him.
I can't believe so many people are against any Shockey or Pacman deal because they're punks or cancers to the team. It's not like we're talking about a church softball league, this is the NFL! Sometimes you have to deal with head cases in order to win. What does it matter to us if Shockey comes in and is still a punk? If Pacman would help us win, which he would, who cares what he does in the locker room? As fans it shouldn't matter what the team's locker room is like because we aren't there. Shockey won't be getting in our face. Pacman won't be making it rain on our women. What is more important, having a team full of angels or having a Lombardi Trophy? I have to side with the Raiders and Al Davis on this issue. If we had an owner with the "just win baby" mentality we would've won a superbowl by now. Winners are willing to take a risk on a troubled player who can help them win. We've never won much of anything so I guess some people don't understand the concept.
I'll have at this. NFL Live has this discussion about 3 times a week, with knuckleheads like Chris Henry, Pacman, and Chad Johnson contributing material.
Mark Schlereth, who played 12 years in the league and has three superbowl rings, has made a consistent observation about such situation. Simply put lockerroom distractions rarely work out. Literally one bad apple ruins the bunch.
He points out that talent wise the league is pretty even. So intangibles such as team chemistry are critical to the success of a NFL franchise. Guys like Pacman spoil that chemistry.
And in the Roger Goodell NFL, being a bad apple means not playing. So now if your teammate screws up off the field, you're going to lose his services for a significant period of time. So in fact you're trusting a ticking time bomb not to go off.
Good luck with that.
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The Saints might be the cleanest team in the NFL right now. You never see any of our guys getting in trouble for drugs, drinking and driving, or making it rain on strippers. Our guys are known for helping out in the community and helping rebuild after Katrina. Our team might have the most class and character in the league. I think we can afford to bring in a few troubled guys with talent because our locker room is strong enough to deal with them. A strong locker room can help troubled players mature because they see the way pros are supposed to act.
Referring to Mark Schlereth again, he agrees with you to a point. But he points out that the ratio needs to be like 30 to 1 because the distractions tend sway the younger guys negatively.
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Look at the Patriots for example, they are known for their class and chemistry yet they bring in a new head case every couple years. Corey Dillion, Junior Seau, D. Stallworth, and R. Moss were known as me first, inflated ego type players before they went to New England. They go to the Pats and then all of the sudden they are team first, do whatever it takes to help the team win type guys. The Patriots should be the model for success for every other franchise. If they don't feel like it's below them to take a chance on a risky player then why the hell do we? What makes us so special?
But I think there's a difference between the ego guys and the bad guys too. Guys like Pacman, Chris Henry, and Tank Johnson are getting into criminal trouble off the field. Other than Randy Moss' run in with the meter maid, he hasn't had any true off field problems.
As for the Patriots there is another thread running in their favor: 3 championships. When you have guys that have 3 rings of bling, those who don't tend to listen.
The Saints are not there yet.
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I just don't understand how a Saints fan can be so damn picky about the players we get. It seems like by now we would all just want to win by any means necessary. You people who don't want us to sign a player with any kind of history need to understand the concept of risk vs reward. If we traded a second day draft pick for Pacman Jones that would be small risk. If we reworked his contract and he took a huge pay cut that would make the risk even smaller. The risk is that he comes to the team, gets into some more trouble and becomes an off the field distraction. If that happened we cut him, problem solved. The potential reward in this case far outweighs the potential risk because the guy is one of the best CBs in the league. We would be getting not only a starting caliber CB, but a pro bowl caliber CB for less money than we're paying Jason David! How does that not make sense? Also the guy is a top notch return guy. He could take over those duties so we wouldn't have to worry about Reggie getting drilled so much as a return man. And don't try to tell me that he won't be the same player he was when he comes back. The guy is one of the premiere athletes in the league and he's young so he'll be fine. This will be his last chance so maybe he's smart enough to understand that if he wants to make millions he has to stay the hell out of strip joints. Just watch, Pacman will go to the Cowboys or whoever and be better than he ever was because he'll be playing for a bigger contract. Sure you guys will say "I don't care how good he might be, I still don't want him", and you'll still be foolish for valuing character over talent.
The risk, which in fact a probability, is that he'll screw up again and be put on indefinite suspension. The problem is that will probably happen sooner than later. He's already proved that he doesn't care about playing, or about the money. If he did he would sit his ass at home, studying film and preparing to be a better player rather than making it rain at the club.
Talent without character is a disaster waiting to happen. The risk of damage to the locker room isn't worth the potential reward.
Let me just point out that the Bengals have a locker room full of talented, yet troubled guys. See any rings on their fingers?
I rest my case.
SFIAH
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I'm all for getting Shockey if the price is right, but damn.....
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Originally Posted by pakowitz
thank u sir.. i think the same thing about shockey.. u just said it before i could... who wouldnt complain about eli manning bein the qb.. and dont come with he won a superbowl.. he finally started living up to the hype after 3 years.. and the D won the superbowl.. he just happened to be on the team...
Didn't Eli when MVP of the game?
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Oh yeah....NO PAC-MAN!!!! I don't care how good he was two seasons ago. He's a walking time bomb. Besides....with his history of spitting in the faces & punching of females, PAC-MAN would be a dead man within a week with the women of New Orleans. I can read the headlines now:
"Mia X was arrested today for the murder of Adam Pac-Man Jones. Jones was found beaten & shot after spitting on Mia X in a New Orleans night club."
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KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!
-G.I. Joe
I'm glad that you think that it's good that I side with Al Davis and his "just win baby" philosophy. I'm glad we agree on that because you don't have to be Einstein to understand this equation: Al Davis + Raiders = 3 Super Bowl wins, 4 AFC Championships, 1 AFL Championship, 15 Division Championships > John Mecom & Tom Benson + Saints = 3 Division Championships. It would be foolish to question the Raiders success so I'm glad you agree with me.
I'm sorry Mr. Tobias, I think you're mistaken. I'm not "outraged" over anything. It would take alot more than fans not liking a grown man who calls himself Pacman for me to get "outraged". I assure you Mr. Tobias, I am quite calm. I simply posted a message expressing my thoughts on Saints fans not wanting low character players that could help us win a Super Bowl. I merely stated that after all of these years of losing maybe we shouldn't be so worried about having a team full of choir boys. I pointed out that if the best franchise in football, the New England Patriots, doesn't mind bringing in bad guys, then why should we? Why not follow their lead and take a few risks in order to get some rewards? They can get away with it because they have a high character team, well so do we. One bad apple will not spoil our team because Drew, Deuce, and Co. wouldn't let that happen.
Horse Pucky!! We don't need sidline drama. New Orleans + Strip Clubs + PacMan = Bad News. Let him prove himself with another team. And who did new england bring in that was bad? Moss? How many years was he suspended for? Moss's issue was motivation. Pac-mans motivation is a G-string. So yes I agree saints fans are picky. They want quality players they can count on. And what is really wrong with that?
Bad players don't only bring their OWN baggage with them, they also bring the media circus into the locker room. And that's what I think the Saints want to avoid.
And I couldn't agree more.
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I'm all for getting Shockey if the price is right, but damn.....
Didn't Eli when MVP of the game?
didnt i say not to come with that eli did this garbage... he played descent in the game, not overly great... i dont think he deserved the MVP.. the Dline should have gotten that award but b/c he plays QB he got the MVP.. out of all the superbowls, QBs have been the MVP 22 times.. the next highest? RB with 7, and then WR with 5..
anyway... that being said... Eli is still a garbage QB.. has been since he was drafted and will continue to be.. everyone loves him now cuz his TEAM won a superbowl.. he rode that defense all the way to the title and anyone who says otherwise must not have watched any of those games... the media has blown it up like he has broken out and will finally live up to his hype. but he wont.. he will continue to make stupid throws and be a mediocre QB but everything will be ok..... cuz he won a superbowl..
Re: Saints Fans = Too Picky
