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Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

this is a discussion within the NFL Community Forum; Ben is a scumbag...he will get his soon enough......

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Old 04-13-2010, 08:18 AM   #41
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Ben is a scumbag...he will get his soon enough...
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:34 AM   #42
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by falconhater View Post
Ben has not been proven innocent in either case..CHECK YOUR FACTS!!! The LAs Vegas Case is pending although it is Civil not Legal( Is that the right terminology). The victim in the Georgia case did not recant her allegations but through her lawyer and his advice stated that she did not want to be part of a "Media Circus" and thought her life had been harmed enough she didnt want to endure the personal damage a trial in the media light would bring her. (She may well have been paid to go away we will never know but she didnt go quietly. And some one please explainhow video evidence in police custody get soverwritten!!!! Also Innocent and Not Guilty are two totally seperate situations. Ben is by no means Innocent!!!
its obviously a conspiracy against women

ben is innocent until proven guilty......he doesnt have to be proven innocent

whatever happened, alledgedly happened in the bathroom where it is unlawful to have cameras anyway

so how about instead of pegging people guilty before they are, give people the benefit of the doubt which is what they deserve in the first place
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:44 AM   #43
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

... I always thought the saying "innocent until proven guilty" misleading, since there's no "innocent" verdict... you are either found guilty or found not guilty, but never declared innocent.. and while the burden of proof is on the accuser, the accused still has to disprove the accuser's evidence, ergo having to prove his/her innocence. You never hear prosecutors say they didn't pursue a case because the accused was "innocent", it is always "not enough evidence to charge"...

... anyway, this is what? the 3rd allegation of sexual misconduct? He's half way to PacMan Jones' status, as (IIRC) he had 6 different criminal allegations against him... of course, he's innocent as well

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Old 04-13-2010, 12:12 PM   #44
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
... I always thought the saying "innocent until proven guilty" misleading, since there's no "innocent" verdict... you are either found guilty or found not guilty, but never declared innocent.. and while the burden of proof is on the accuser, the accused still has to disprove the accuser's evidence, ergo having to prove his/her innocence. You never hear prosecutors say they didn't pursue a case because the accused was "innocent", it is always "not enough evidence to charge"...

... anyway, this is what? the 3rd allegation of sexual misconduct? He's half way to PacMan Jones' status, as (IIRC) he had 6 different criminal allegations against him... of course, he's innocent as well
you still have to defend yourself....thats why it is called the defense

the prosecutor must present evidence that you have done the crime and the evidence must prove to the judge/jury that the defense is in fact guilty of the crime they are being accused of

because there would be no case without prosecution, the judge/jury must find the defendant not guilty of the charges in order to validate innocence

thats the thinking behind it whether we agree with it or not
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:14 PM   #45
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

I think this is Bens last chance...he messes up again and he wont walk so easy....wait..i forgot he's rich famous and has the money to buy people off..
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:15 PM   #46
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by falconhater View Post
Ben has not been proven innocent in either case..CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!
So, you see, in America you're innocent until proven guilty, you are not assumed guilty until proven innocent. You know, that thing about the 'burden of proof'?

There are two people that know what happened. I'm not one of them, and neither are you. Witch hunts went out a LONG time ago, and vigilante justice has no place in this country.

Welcome to America Jack!
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:36 PM   #47
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by CantonLegend View Post
you still have to defend yourself....thats why it is called the defense

the prosecutor must present evidence that you have done the crime and the evidence must prove to the judge/jury that the defense is in fact guilty of the crime they are being accused of

because there would be no case without prosecution, the judge/jury must find the defendant not guilty of the charges in order to validate innocence

We were doing ok until that
Courts never find you "innocent" or "validate your innoncence". You are either found guilty or found not guilty based on evidence presented; whether you are innocent or not, that's another story.
Even when there's no prosecution, they will never say "the accused is innocent", only state "not enough evidence to charge".

Last edited by Tobias-Reiper; 04-13-2010 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:41 PM   #48
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
We were doing ok until that
Courts never find you "innocent" or "validate your innoncence". You are either found guilty or found not guilty based on evidence presented; whether you are innocent or not, that's another story.
Even when there's no prosecution, they will never say "the accused is innocent", only a "not enough evidence to charge".
its just language.....not guilty means the prosecutor was wrong or didnt present enough evidence to prove you were guilty

the not guilty ruling is just language.....all it means is that we know you are innocent(thereby validating innocence)

you can say you are innocent.....and you are assumed innocent....but you have not been proven innocent......the not guilty ruling just says that there is no reason to believe you arent innocent
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:44 PM   #49
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
We were doing ok until that
Courts never find you "innocent" or "validate your innoncence". You are either found guilty or found not guilty based on evidence presented; whether you are innocent or not, that's another story.
Even when there's no prosecution, they will never say "the accused is innocent", only state "not enough evidence to charge".
It isn't the prosecutors job to prove you innocent, only to prove you guilty, which is why "not enough evidence to charge" is the language used.

If it were the other way around - if the DA's job was to prove you innocent, the wording would be different.
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:08 PM   #50
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Re: Steelers trade Holmes to Jets for fifth-round draft pick

Originally Posted by CantonLegend View Post
its just language.....not guilty means the prosecutor was wrong or didnt present enough evidence to prove you were guilty

the not guilty ruling is just language.....all it means is that we know you are innocent(thereby validating innocence)

you can say you are innocent.....and you are assumed innocent....but you have not been proven innocent......the not guilty ruling just says that there is no reason to believe you arent innocent

er.. no. Being found not guilty does not mean the prosecutor was wrong, nor does it mean we "know" you are innocent. "Found not guiity as charged" is NOT just language. There is a whole bunch of legal reasons behind that specific language, but I don't think this is the forum to discuss this.
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