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-   -   Kurt Warner says Eli isn’t a Hall of Famer (http://blackandgold.com/nfl/41058-kurt-warner-says-eli-isn-t-hall-famer.html)

QBREES9 02-08-2012 12:12 AM

Kurt Warner says Eli isn’t a Hall of Famer
 
Quarterback Kurt Warner retired two years ago with a body of work that likely will put him in Canton. If he gets there, he may not be welcoming Eli Manning with open arms.

In an appearance with Burns and Gambo on Arizona Sports 620 in Phoenix, Warner made the case against Eli’s potential induction into the Hall of Fame.

“I fully disagree with that,” Warner said of talk that Eli will get in. “You know because I know we put a lot of weight on championships, and rightfully so. But championships are won as a team, and I’m fully convinced of that. You never see one guy — a great player, great quarterback — carry a team through the playoffs and into a Super Bowl and win a Super Bowl that way. I’ve never seen it. You know even in that game [Super Bowl XLVI], it’s 21-17. That’s the game. There wasn’t a quarterback just up and down the field carrying the team.

“Yeah, he made the plays down the stretch, no question about it,” added Warner, who spent the 2004 season with Eli in New York. “He’s had two great playoff runs, or his team has had two great playoff runs. But I also look at the rest of his career. I mean, he has an 82 . . . quarterback rating throughout his career. You know, he’s had five of his eight seasons where he has thrown 16 interceptions or more. His completion percentage on his career is 58 percent. To me, those aren’t Hall of Fame numbers and by that I mean every time you step on the field you’re a game changer, you’re a difference maker. And I don’t believe Eli Manning has been that guy until this year. I think this year is the first time in his career when he’s become that guy.”

Warner said that, if Eli performs like he did this year for five more seasons, then he’ll be worthy of inclusion among the league’s all-time greats. Without that, Warner thinks Eli should be kept out due to the fact that he has been “extremely inconsistent throughout his career.”

It’s persuasive stuff, despite the potential bias that a guy like Warner may have when it comes to setting the bar for inclusion. Warner won only one Super Bowl, and he’s less than 5,000 passing yards and only 23 touchdown passes ahead of Eli. But Warner was twice the league MVP, which under his own explanation of what it takes to get to Canton makes his career seem more impressive.

I’m not saying Warner is twisting the standard to suit his own interests deliberately, but it’s normal where there’s no clear, objective formula to define greatness in a way that enhances the great things the person providing the definition has done. Warner has been a “game changer” more often than Eli, even though Eli has won two Super Bowls — and two Super Bowl MVP awards — and barring injury Eli’s final career stats likely will dwarf Warner’s.

But at least Warner is willing to take a position publicly and defend it, unlike the 44 men and women who under the cover of the Hall of Fame’s by laws can’t be compelled to provide details regarding why they’ve voted the way they’ve voted, and why others in the room have cast their own ballots.

WhoDat!656 02-08-2012 05:00 AM

I disagree with Warner!

IMO, Super Bowls are the ultimate factor in determining a player's, (particularly a QB), career.

Eli's 2 SB wins, both over the team that Warner and the Rams couldn't beat, and both involving GW TD drives with a tremendous pass from Eli, have solidly placed him in the 'elite' category.

Crusader 02-08-2012 05:10 AM

Warner is right, you have to take everything into consideration. Otherwise Trent Dilfer should be inducted in the hall and not Dan Marino.

QBREES9 02-08-2012 11:04 PM

Were going to wait and see how the rest of his carrer plays out before this conversaion is over. He Won 2 Super Bowls.

SloMotion 02-09-2012 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QBREES9 (Post 376609)
I’m not saying Warner is twisting the standard to suit his own interests deliberately, but it’s normal where there’s no clear, objective formula to define greatness in a way that enhances the great things the person providing the definition has done. Warner has been a “game changer” more often than Eli, even though Eli has won two Super Bowls — and two Super Bowl MVP awards — and barring injury Eli’s final career stats likely will dwarf Warner’s.

But at least Warner is willing to take a position publicly and defend it, unlike the 44 men and women who under the cover of the Hall of Fame’s by laws can’t be compelled to provide details regarding why they’ve voted the way they’ve voted, and why others in the room have cast their own ballots.

Kurt Warner ... I respect his opinion and he brought up some good points in the whole 'elite/HOF' argument on Eli ... especially in the last two paragraphs ... good read ... I'm still kind of inclined to say Eli is a Hall-of-Famer with this second SB win ... are there any QBs who have won 2 championships NOT in the Hall of Fame?

Beastmode 02-09-2012 10:09 AM

He's still a young man with 5-6 years left. I agree, he might not be the most graceful QB to ever play but he gets it done. And Warner of all people...he spent about 5 years moving around the NFL because he was not good enough.

saintfan 02-09-2012 10:27 AM

The jury is still out, for all the reason's Warner mentions. Hell, all but 3 or 4 teams would be very fortunate to have Eli on their roster right now, but he's not an automatic for the Hall of Fame...not yet...

Then again, Drew wasn't either oh, say, 3 years ago.

QBREES9 02-09-2012 11:05 PM

are there any QBs who have won 2 championships NOT in the Hall of Fame?

I think Jim Plunkett.

OldMaid 02-09-2012 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QBREES9 (Post 377113)
are there any QBs who have won 2 championships NOT in the Hall of Fame?

I think Jim Plunkett.

Oakland Raider Jim Plunket should be a HoF'er. The NFL was so different during Jim's day too with rules, fewer teams, more true grit of football.

Eli Manning, Hof, I am going to most probably. That is a long way off. I do think EM is an Elite qb. The two SB wins a qb, but he was qb of a tem, the same team, and won over NEP 's team of Belicheck, Brady and others.
HoF is based on overall career.
EM's career is not over yet.
HoF is based on player's individual stats too.
I don't about EM's individual stats.

He has come a long way personally from acting like a classless whinney baby throwing down SD Chargers hat at the draft.
I thought that was really bad in front of the press and was something he, his dad, and handlers should have handled behind the scenes.

Career wise, EM has come a long way. He plays in a tough market. Remember the NYPost front page after losing so big to the Saints? Thats' NYC for ya'.
He has been consistently upward.


It is hard to say who will be a HoF'er when the person is still out thre.
It takes some years for nomination too.

I look for Saints Morten Anderson to be a HoF'er.
Was Tom Dempsey ever nominated?

SloMotion 02-10-2012 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QBREES9 (Post 377113)
are there any QBs who have won 2 championships NOT in the Hall of Fame?

I think Jim Plunkett.

Oh yeah ... you know, I still associate Jim Plunkett with New England even though his best years were with the Raiders ... he should be a HOF'er.

Ok, so know we got a QB with 2 SuperBowl rings not in the HOF ... compare Eli to Plunkett, not statwise, but just put them side by side. They're both that "no-frills, get-er-done, gritty" kind of QB ... could set be a bad omen for Eli.

Dempsey should be in the HOF just for that one kick ... they let Joe Namath in for winning SuperBowl III, other then that, Broadway Joe was not a HOF QB.

Another serious HOF snub is towards Ray Guy ... how can they keep passing him over?


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