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Nnamdi Asomugha (All in one)

this is a discussion within the NFL Community Forum; I just posted this in another thread. But thought it fit here as well... The more and more I read about Asomugha the more I hope we don't sign him. I think he can still be a productive player in ...

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Old 03-23-2013, 08:18 PM   #491
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Re: New Orleans Saints Better Off Not Signing Nnamdi Asomugha

I just posted this in another thread. But thought it fit here as well...

The more and more I read about Asomugha the more I hope we don't sign him. I think he can still be a productive player in the league. But, we still need to generate a pass rush for our defensive backs to be successful. With a diminishing skill set I'm not sure Nnamdi is what our team needs at this point. He might be in a better position to be productive with the 49er defense considering they have been in the 34 for about three years now, and their front seven can really put pressure on the quarterback, really hiding some of the declining skills that Asomugha possess.

Lets face it, although we played variations of the 34 under Greg Williams, it takes a team a few years to really get accustomed to a new formation. We still have the same personnel that has struggled to produce a respectable pass rush the past few years. Every dollar counts this off-season, why spend it on a player in decline who won't get the help necessary from the front seven... or the back two (Jenkins/ Harper).

Also remember this, just because Asomugha had success with Ryan in the past does not mean we are going to get the same type of player, tomorrow.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #492
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Re: New Orleans Saints Better Off Not Signing Nnamdi Asomugha

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan View Post
I just posted this in another thread. But thought it fit here as well...

The more and more I read about Asomugha the more I hope we don't sign him. I think he can still be a productive player in the league. But, we still need to generate a pass rush for our defensive backs to be successful. With a diminishing skill set I'm not sure Nnamdi is what our team needs at this point. He might be in a better position to be productive with the 49er defense considering they have been in the 34 for about three years now, and their front seven can really put pressure on the quarterback, really hiding some of the declining skills that Asomugha possess.

Lets face it, although we played variations of the 34 under Greg Williams, it takes a team a few years to really get accustomed to a new formation. We still have the same personnel that has struggled to produce a respectable pass rush the past few years. Every dollar counts this off-season, why spend it on a player in decline who won't get the help necessary from the front seven... or the back two (Jenkins/ Harper).

Also remember this, just because Asomugha had success with Ryan in the past does not mean we are going to get the same type of player, tomorrow.
This is a great post, but we're not going to find a pass rush this late in the game...
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:06 PM   #493
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Re: New Orleans Saints Better Off Not Signing Nnamdi Asomugha

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan View Post
Also remember this, just because Asomugha had success with Ryan in the past does not mean we are going to get the same type of player, tomorrow.

Well that same truism can be applied to your other points as well, and we can't know if Asomugha would still be a Pro Bowler under Ryan going forward - unlikely for certain but not impossible.

You pointed out that it takes defenses a few years to get accustomed to a new formation, but that's not always the case either. Wade Phillips was successful in implementing his 3-4 defense in Houston immediately, and if I'm not mistaken the Texans ran a predominantly base 4-3 before that under Frank Bush. Under Bush, the Texans' defense finished 3rd worst in total defense in 2010, but just a year removed they finished in top 4 of all the major defensive categories under Phillips. So, a quick change can happen and a bad defense can turn into a good one in just a year if everything falls into place - of course the opposite is possible as well, which could happen to the 49ers defense.

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Old 03-23-2013, 09:43 PM   #494
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Re: Nnamdi is still looking at Niners, Saints

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan View Post
Lets face it, although we played variations of the 34 under Greg Williams, it takes a team a few years to really get accustomed to a new formation. We still have the same personnel that has struggled to produce a respectable pass rush the past few years. Every dollar counts this off-season, why spend it on a player in decline who won't get the help necessary from the front seven... or the back two (Jenkins/ Harper).
But our defense was better under those variations, because most of this personnel is better suited for a 3-4 defense anyway. There is a very good foundation for the Saints in making the switch. You could very well see players like Wilson, Galette, Hicks, Bunkley, Harper and Jordan play lights out in a 3-4, because that is what seems to play to their skill sets better. Picking up another pass rushing linebacker or defensive lineman in free agency or the draft just deepens the talent pool on the roster and could make our secondary look a lot better. It doesn't necessarily take three years for a team to pick up a system if that is what they are built to play. It didn't work with Spags, because his complex 4-3 zone system didn't play to the Saints strengths on defense. Under Gregg Williams, there was a lot more man-to-man coverage and heavy blitzing. It was ultimately successful, especially in the Super Bowl year, because of their ability to force turnovers and at least get in the faces of opposing quarterbacks. I would expect to see a lot of the same under Rob Ryan. I think this defense has a chance to be greatly improved this year, and not just slightly improved. There is really nowhere to go but up, but I do expect to see a lot more sacks and forced turnovers this year. I'm actually excited about seeing this defense on the field next year.

I'd also like to add that if it takes the Saints defense three years to pick up the system, then Rob Ryan will probably be without a job in New Orleans.

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Old 03-23-2013, 10:06 PM   #495
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Re: Nnamdi is still looking at Niners, Saints

Originally Posted by brian504 View Post
Its simple my fellow Saints front office workers...SIGN HIM!!! dont let the niners beef up! Pay him or play him.u do the math. Who Dat like u already knew dat!
judging on his last few years i would much rather play him....
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:16 PM   #496
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Re: New Orleans Saints Better Off Not Signing Nnamdi Asomugha

Originally Posted by FinSaint View Post
Well that same truism can be applied to your other points as well, and we can't know if Asomugha would still be a Pro Bowler under Ryan going forward - unlikely for certain but not impossible.

You pointed out that it takes defenses a few years to get accustomed to a new formation, but that's not always the case either. Wade Phillips was successful in implementing his 3-4 defense in Houston immediately, and if I'm not mistaken the Texans ran a predominantly base 4-3 before that under Frank Bush. Under Bush, the Texans' defense finished 3rd worst in total defense in 2010, but just a year removed they finished in top 4 of all the major defensive categories under Phillips. So, a quick change can happen and a bad defense can turn into a good one in just a year if everything falls into place - of course the opposite is possible as well, which could happen to the 49ers defense.
Your right about the Texans. They did make a quick transformation into the 34, so it can be done. I think it also depends on what type of personnel you have and who fits into your new scheme. If I'm correct Houston had some young players that fit into what Phillips was implementing. I guess that is my concern when looking at our personnel. In order for us to make the transformation we are going to need more production out of our front seven. Honestly, I'm not confident in Bunkley, Johnson or Hicks playing over center as a NT in the 34. I think Will Smith can still contribute as a starting de, even in a 34. He can still play the run pretty well, but would still be considered a bit smallish as a 34 de. We've always seem to struggle against the run, but we will be over matched physically with our personnel as it stands. I think we have all beaten the dead horse when it comes to Harper and his ability to cover out of the secondary. Jenkins shows flashes, but still is inconsistent and is not the ball hawk that I thought he would be playing the free. Obviously we need the upgrade at outside linebacker to really make this thing successful.

I guess going back to my original point... I would prefer us to go out and really sure up areas on this defense that will make our existing personnel in the secondary better. This is a enough of a challenge financially because it seems like we don't have the available cap space to really upgrade where its really needed.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:21 PM   #497
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Re: Nnamdi is still looking at Niners, Saints

Sharper was a declning former Pro. Bowler that worked out okay. Nnamdi is a player that. could make a difference. He really is not under any pressure to decide. We'll. see how it turns out.I for one hope he picks us.We aren't really taking mu h of a risk. The reward could be huge.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:27 PM   #498
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Re: Nnamdi is still looking at Niners, Saints

I think he picks the team that will offer him the biggest contract...
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:25 AM   #499
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Re: New Orleans Saints Better Off Not Signing Nnamdi Asomugha

Originally Posted by nycsaintfan View Post
Honestly, I'm not confident in Bunkley, Johnson or Hicks playing over center as a NT in the 34. I think Will Smith can still contribute as a starting de, even in a 34. He can still play the run pretty well, but would still be considered a bit smallish as a 34 de. We've always seem to struggle against the run, but we will be over matched physically with our personnel as it stands. I think we have all beaten the dead horse when it comes to Harper and his ability to cover out of the secondary. Jenkins shows flashes, but still is inconsistent and is not the ball hawk that I thought he would be playing the free. Obviously we need the upgrade at outside linebacker to really make this thing successful.

I guess going back to my original point... I would prefer us to go out and really sure up areas on this defense that will make our existing personnel in the secondary better. This is a enough of a challenge financially because it seems like we don't have the available cap space to really upgrade where its really needed.

Yeah, I would only put Bunkley out of those guys who you mentioned in a 0- or 1-stance, the rest are better suited for the DE rotation. I'd prefer the starting DEs to be Jordan and Hicks with Smith, Johnson, Walker and possibly Romeus providing the rotational depth in those positions. I agree with you on Smith and I have stated as much in numerous threads before: I don't think he'll be much of a success at the DE position either in providing a forward push and/or tying up O-line double teams or defending against the run. But I do understand why it was financially a sound decision to keep him around with the reduced salary. Jordan and Hicks have the potential to be a dominating DE pair - Jordan has shown as much in his college playing days and Hicks has all the tools to be a great success at the position as well. So I'm not too worried about the guys who have their hands on the ground going forward, but they do need to add another high quality NT to the roster and the draft seems to be the place where they are looking to find that guy since they didn't invite any of the free agent 3-4 NTs to come over for a look-see.

As for Harper and Jenkins - they'll in all likelihood play better this coming season (which I give to you isn't saying much) and they have competent depth behind them in case of an injury happens to either of them. Financially, it once again would be troublesome to release either of the two, and it would not make any sense to sign a FA safety to replace either one as a starter and still be paying them like starters. Jenkins will enter a contract year, so he'll have all the incentive in the world to show us all what kind of a player he really is, and if he can't muster up a good season - he'll be gone the next offseason. Harper is a good in-the-box SS, and it'll all depend on Ryan and his scheme whether or not Harper will be placed in the best possible situation to succeed with his (limited) skill set. An in-the-box SS should not have to drop into coverage on a regular basis, so if Harper is being asked to do that - it's not all on him IMO. Harper still has one more year after this on his contract, but the financial burden of releasing him after this season will be a light one compared to what it would've been now. And we must remember that things might still happen with Harper depending on how the rest of the free agency develops - in him and his contract Loomis still has a good tool to manipulate the cap if the need for it arises.

CB is a good position to inject some depth of talent into, because CBs tend to get banged up a lot during the season with them most of the time being smaller in stature compared to the guys they are going against. So, quality depth is much more important at the CB position than it is in the safety position. Also, you tend to have packages that are fielding more than two CBs on the field at a given time, but three safety packages are rare if not non-existent. I still think that Asomugha won't brake the bank if he accepts the Saints' offer, and that's why he's been given all this time to make up his mind since either way he decides; it won't create any cap difficulties for the Saints.

I do agree with you on that the Saints do need an impact rushing OLB to add to their roster, and I don't know if Butler is/was that answer ever, so I'm not that disappointed with seeing him gone. I truly think that the Saints should use their 1st round pick on a pass rushing OLB like Jordan, Ansah, Mingo, Jones or even Ogletree, depending on who'll be available to them either at the 15th or later if they can trade down. Other than that one impact pass rushing OLB, I think they are set at LB and they do have some very nice depth within that corps. LT is a concern, but I do think they can manage with adding a rookie LT in the 4th or 5th and coaching up the guys they already have at the club house... and maybe still adding a vet in the free agency.

I'd like to see them draft an OLB, NT, LT, DE and either an offensive guy like WR or a TE or a defensive guy like CB or a S.


Overall, I feel very positive at the moment of how things have been progressing this offseason, and I'm very excited to see this defense take the field whatever its final roster composition will be.

"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:18 AM   #500
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Not sure the Texans defense is a Good comparison. Good players can make a transition easy and not so good players can make it rough.

JJ Watt out performs any two of our DEs combined. Cushing reminds me of a young Fujita but better.
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