Tony Dungy
 

I hope this isn't too political to get me banned, but it is football related.

I was really just wondering if anyone else thought Tony Dungy should apologize for his comments on the TO/MNF thing. He claimed that it was "racially" offensive and I just don't see that.

I mean, I can see how someone might have found it to be too provacative and tasteless. I also can see how one might find it to be stereotyping NFL players as a whole. But to suggest it was somehow stereotyping blacks...that's absurd.

Then when he goes to justify his inane comment, he names two white HCs that would not have appeared in such a skit. What he fails to note is that NO HC appeared in the skit. My opinion is that there were plenty of white players on the Eagles team that would have appeared in it if asked, but they wanted someone controversial.

I just think it's pathetic when a person has to find racism or prejudice in EVERYTHING when it somehow relates to a minority and is controversial. Anyway, that's my rant and Dungy should apologize for HIS racism in this area and stick to coaching football.

Tony Dungy
 

i can tell you one thing...i am sick of hearing the nfl\'s excuses when these sort of things happen...two years in a row now..sex has come into play during a football game...after last years wardrobe \'\'malfunction\'\'..yeah right...the nfl was supposed to make sure there was a 8 second delay i believe...on all nationally televised games...and i have a little girl..and sometimes she watches football with me..i never thought i would see the day the nfl should be considered a \'\'R\'\' rated television show..it\'s disgusting what they\'ll do for money..they know exactly what will air..they have to review it..and approve it..especially a commercial with an nfl player...during a monday night game...luckily i was away from the tv when it aired...but..i will not allow it to be aired in my home ,should it happen again..my child\'s innocence is too precious to let the nfl strip it away..for a buck

Tony Dungy
 

What\'s disgusting to me is that when a woman drops her towel in some horrible made-for-TV movie on Oxygen, there\'s no problem. When you see a woman\'s bare back on MNF, it\'s a freaking outrage. Give me a break. The TWINS (coors light I think) commercials are more offensive than that piece was. People complain about EVERYTHING now... I know, I\'m one of \'em. ;) Really though, this whole thing is blown completely out of proportion.

[Edited on 20/11/2004 by WhoDat]

Tony Dungy
 

I don\'t have kids, but I can sympathize with SDX that folks who want to watch MNF with their children probably shouldn\'t have to worry about anything more racy than reading an angry coach or players lips on the sidelines (and the Coors Light commercials). I didn\'t have a personal problem with the skit, but I can agree maybe MNF wasn\'t the place for it.

As for those who\'ve made it a racial issue, I really don\'t see it. The NFL is no more a place for Dungy to give his opinions on race than it was for the skit in question. I wonder would Dungy have said anything if it had been Tom Brady and Beyonce instead of T.O. and Nicholette Sheridan? Maybe so. Just seems to me that interracial coupling is nothing new, and it\'s fine if people don\'t agree with it, but I don\'t see why those people can\'t keep it to themselves.

Tony Dungy
 

you know what to anyone that was offended grow up. dont you even remember being a young child around 10 or 11. hate to bear this news to you but ur children are thining about sex if they r lets say 10-14 for a boy 12-16 for a girl. they r not innocent and especially not as much as u may think. there is a huge reason porn sels in this country to the tune of hundreds of billions dollars per year. and for women believe me ur hubby is walking around dreaming about all the nice loooking younger women he works with and sees. thats a fact of life. we can stand here and lie to each other if u prefer but im telling u the way men r. as far as ur children they have probally at an early age lets say 1 or 2 already heard cursing from the parents or other family members. if they havent just wait till they get to school. oh they may be sweet when they r home playing ol mommy and daddy like a fiddle then they get out and boy wouldnt u like to hear their mouths then. the only reason i know this is because oh wait i was a child once. your child see some boobies or some arse isnt going to kill them. why not make sure they arent out lookinh to kill some people. might be a little more inportant then the ol . matter of fact as a man i can honestly say if i was quite mad and wanted to kill someone but a nice piece of the ol showed up i think that whoever i wanted to kill would have to wait. parents are ridiculous with how they want to protect their kids and then forget what they were like as children. u know the women were out at 14 maybe 16 someones n the frigan dads act like they dont know what a women was when they were young. i never would have tryed that at my age. yeah ok bro. you would still like to try it but your probally to old.

now to moree important things. tony dungy the hell up. you were offended that a black man was seen with a white women. dude look around its happening all over the country and its even happening with white mena and black women. probally why i was able to marry my wife who is black. it is in no way damaging to black men that t.o. was sen with a naked white women. god almighy lets get over it already in this country.
somone pour me a drink

You know better.

[Edited on 20/11/2004 by JOESAM2002]

Tony Dungy
 

I saw the monday night skit, what is the big deal, I have seen worse. What gets me is when a TV station is afraid to show private ryan on veterans day because they are afraid of the big bad FCC. I am in Iraq fighting for freedom, while everyday our freedom is being taken away by the govt. and the FCC. I don\'t like to be political, but I am getting fed up with the FCC. enough of that.

GO SAINTS

Tony Dungy
 

i apologize that some of my words and thoughts were incoherent in my reply above, but i was writing rather quickly and did not go back to read over my post before posting it. hopefully you get the gist of it.

Tony Dungy
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=caple/041118

Seems like a tempest in a tea kettle, much ado about nothing, a mountain out of a molehill and a stupid race to see who can make their \"statement of outrage\" first.

More than anything it seems to indicate that as a culture we are losing any sense of humor at all.

From a business perspective, the networks should be able to promo their other programing. Fox in any form wouldn\'t be around today if the NFL weren\'t there to allow them to plug shows like, \"Married with Children\", \"The Simpsons\" and \"King of the Hill\". If the NFL wants to decry this practice, then let them start the NFL network and see if \"Seasame Street\" wants to buy commercial time.

As for the whole \"children shouldn\'t see that sort of thing arguement\". I fail to get it. Where\'s the outrage over ESPN plugging \"Playmakers\"? Where\'s the outrage over the Miller lite commercials, or Pepsi\'s Cindy Crawford commercials from back in the day? Where\'s the outrage over the content of the average soap opera that millions of toddlers are exposed to every day?

If the NFL wants to be a wholesome family program and make shielding children the top priority, then maybe Randy Moss should be banned from the sport after running over a cop? Or maybe David Boston should be banned from the sport after being caught with weed and cocaine? Or maybe Brett Favre should be banned from the sport after abuse of perscription drugs? Or maybe Joe Horn should be banned from the sport for miming a machine gun after a TD? Or maybe Joey Porter and William Green should be banned for mixing it up before the game? Or maybe Ray Lewis should be banned from the sport for killing a guy?

The NFL might want to try and sell its commercial space for Barney videos, Seasame Street and legos. The NFL needs to climb off it\'s high horse and just admit, \"Hey it\'s a violent sport, people get hurt, our players aren\'t all people you\'d want to live next door to and we are going to help a lot of people sell beer.\" Aside from that people need to get a clue and realize that the target demographic for MNF is men between 18-50. The NFL is engaging in stunning hypocrisy here. It\'s OK when the money is rolling in, but suddenly not OK when the FCC is going to start levying fines.

As for Tony Dungy, classy guy, but making no sense at all. TO was in the promo because he\'s the most popular member of the team right now. The only guys on the Eagles you can promo with are Donovan or TO. It\'s not about race it\'s about trying to be clever and plugging other ABC programming. It\'s ridiculous to charge top dollar for the \"privilege\" of airing the NFL\'s product to millions and then forbid the network to attempt to promote it\'s programming and sell more commercial time. But the other part that\'s so stupid is that a woman in a towel has caused this uproar. If ABC had chosen to promo Jennifer Garner beating the crap out of TO to plug \"Alias\", that would be totatlly OK, because evidently a show where people get killed is more wholesome that a show where hot women parade around in towels.

The NFL can\'t have it both ways. The fact is that MNF hasn\'t been a ratings winner for years and the league still wants top dollar for it. But I\'ll bet anything that the ratings are up this week, at least for the first quarter.

Tony Dungy
 

good post really good post brooks must go

Tony Dungy
 

Great post ScottyRo.
I think Dungy is a good coach and is right to be upset but he didn\'t need to make this a racial issue.
Terrell Owens is controvercial. Obviously. So to say that this commercial is racist is like saying that everyone who disagrees with his touchdown celebrations are racists also. Dungy\'s trying too hard and has lost a bit of his \"classy\" status in my mind.

Children are watching these shows with parents that don\'t care what the child sees. As a parent, I try to prevent my child from seeing too much junk on t.v. (that is proving to be a very hard job) and NFL games are one of the times I thought to be safe to watch t.v. with her.
I have no problem with the NFL making a stink about this promo. I already knew that the show was junk and I\'d seen some pretty shameless commercials prior to the Monday night skit. I\'m glad that they are coming down on abc about it because if they get by with this, what will they do next time to push the envelope?

Tony Dungy
 

I forgot who said it but it rings trueout through history..

\"Whatever the current generation tolerates, the next will embrace\"

I too think they crossed the line. But it would be hypocritical on my part to simply stop with ABC. Watching Cartoon Network with my kids last month they had a commercial for \"Queer Eye\" come on.

While watching cartoons with my kids I have to deal with that?

Incremental immorarilty. Make a stand against it and you\'re labeled a prude or an un-enlightened hick. I feel a need to go to church.

Tony Dungy
 

well i\'d hate to say this to you danno but people being gay is a fact of life. i wont argue with you over why they are gay but only that they are and it is a fact of life your just going to have to come to terms with. you have no right to choose what someone else will or will not be. just like they have no right to choose for you. im not saying that was your point. it is my point.
although i agree that nature lets us know what is natural and what is not in this case it doesnt make it wrong. some people in my opinion are born with defects. my brother kevin was born retarded and that is through no fault of his own. it is not natural to be born that way either. but he is still a wonderful person and he works full time every week. more then i can say for some but thats another argument. it is also something your child will have to deal with at some point in her life so hiding it from her isnt going to help prevent it. as far as going to church goes well christ i believe taught everyone to be more tolerant. i hope you dont mistake my post as attacking you because im not. your beliefs are your own and i wont be able to influence them one way or another. i just disagree with you. most of the people i have met that are gay are polite, respectful and successful. nothing wrong with embracing a person of such qualities.

Tony Dungy
 

i apologize for not putting this in my last post danno but you spoke of going to church so this hit me. there are sevral stories about sex in the bible and one comes to me as what i think you would consider offensive. it is the story of lot being raped or tricked into intercourse with his two daughters. just wondering will you also ban the bible from your daughter?

Tony Dungy
 

I have a gay Aunt and I love her very much. I also have gay friends. I didn\'t say anything negative about gays other than I don\'t want the lifestyle celebrated in front of my 5 year old. There\'s a time to deal with that later, when she grows up.

Christ taught forgiveness. He never taught celebrating what is written as wrong. I will never ever have the nerve to condemn anyone for their lifestyle, but I certainly won\'t celebrate it. We ALL fall short in the eyes of God. Every single one of us, no exceptions. I was a VERY bad person in my youth and will have to answer for that one day, so I\'m not gonna throw stones at anyone. I think you misunderstood my comments but thats cool. I\'m often misunderstood.

Sex is natural fact of life also, do you think there should be Porno commercials on TV during childrens programs? They will have to deal with that also eventually.

Where do you draw the line? Its simply a question of where to draw the line. When people are involved, that line will vary day to day, generation to generation. I think ABC went a bit too far. But so do CBS, FOX, NBC, radio, movies etc.

Tony Dungy
 

No, I won\'t read that to my daughter until I feel she\'s old enough to understand. There is a difference, Lott\'s daughters thought they were going to perish in the desert alone and wanted to bear children, and the only male they though they\'d ever see was their father. The event is not celebrated in the Bible. There is a difference.
But I\'m very close to being banned for my political temper so I think I\'ll just leave this one alone. Its all cool. I\'ve enjoyed our discussion.

Tony Dungy
 

thats an excellent response danno. and i agree with you about what you said as far as all of us messing up in life. it was nice to hear after you mentioned church only because a lot of people i have come in contact with are quick to mention religion and find it to be their savior regardless of how they act in lfe. i was forced to go to church as a youngster and have nothing against it now. but i was glad to hear you say or glad to hear what you believe. very good come back post. i liked it.

Tony Dungy
 

This thread is getting away from football. Let\'s get back to the original subject shall we?

Tony Dungy
 

well i also wont go into the lot story any more either. i think we have an understanding of where each was coming from but you in no way offended me and if not for the rules of the sight would not have had a problem with discussing this further. you are intelligent and made some good points.

Tony Dungy
 

Firtst, great post Brooks Must Go.

Second, why is it that our overly moral society has one of the highest crime rates in the world, and continents like Europe, who have naked women in their NEWSPAPERS and naked ads on tv EVERYDAY don\'t seem to have the social problems we have in our country. Can someone explain that to me?

If you wanna watch football with your kids, eight o\'clock on a school night, aren\'t they subject to a broken leg or any other horrible injury they will replay 70 times when it happens, or scantily clad cheerleaders gyrating during every commercial break, or the 80 Levitra ads you have to watch? Give me a break. And forget if anyone is miked up. You get profanity all the time. People need to get off their high horse. It was a bare back. Let\'s all wash out eyes out with saline.

The problem is not with race as Dungy sees it. The problem is there are many Americans who don\'t want their kids to see interracial relationships cause their kids may think it\'s alright to bring home someone of another race, God forbid. A bare back alone can\'t be causing this much outcry.

IF you are offended by a bare back, your kids really shouldn\'t be watching anything after 8pm anyway cause just about any show you watch except Nickelodeon has some form of sex selling at that time. There are hardly any family shows left on tv. These people who are crying outrage are probably the same one who let their kids watch Survivor and Fear Factor. Get a grip people. It was a back. Get the hell over it. Or don\'t ever take your kids on vacation in Europe as your life will never be the same.

Tony Dungy
 

I can understand killing 2 ABC birds with one stone, which is what they promoted, 2 of their own shows. I have no problem with promoting capitalism. It really could have been done a different way and it was very suggestive. I feel that it should not have been shown. However, their advertisement has lasted much longer than 60 seconds. As you see we are still talking about it as is every paper, column etc..... So it does not mean I would boycott ABC, but the more it is discussed the more they achieved their goal. And nothing beats word of mouth advertising. As far as Dungy, I read his comments. I understand what he said but I dont understand how he could see it in that light. I am not American African, so maybe it is offensive to the race. But I didn\'t hear anyone else agree with Dungy. Nope dont see it as racially offensive. I guess caucasions could be equally offended.????????

Tony Dungy
 

saintswhodi the only problem i would have with your post is that englands crime rate is worse then the u.s. i did a report in school on this and it is true. their crime rate is actually worse since 2000 then that of the u.s. i would go into the particulars but it would be getting into a political debate. i apologize that i cant. also our crime rate has fallen to all time lows since the 90,s. the rest of your post was very good

Tony Dungy
 

subguy my wife doesnt find it offensive in any way

Tony Dungy
 

About the gay commercial on Cartoon Network... I disapprove because it seems to me to be part of the liberal media\'s plan to saturate our minds with the idea that being gay is ok. The problem for me is that Queer Eye doesn\'t seem to be the type of show that kids young enough to want to watch cartoons would want to watch. Thus, I have to question the motives of the peope who placed those ads on that particular channel.

I also want to say that tolerating an act is different from condoning an act. The way our society is structured I believe that we should be careful about laws prohibiting gay behavior especially inside the home. However, I am not going to say that I think it is morally ok for someone to be gay. I believe that Christ\'s approach would be to rebuke the offender then forgive.

Also, the Bible is not a children\'s book. There are many great kid\'s stories in it, but many of the stories are not intended for a young, immature audience. I wouldn\'t tell a 5 year old about the above story just like I wouldn\'t tell the 5 year old that he/she would go to hell without being saved.

There\'s been lots of great conversation on this thread. It got so non-football that it got bumped here to the EE forum, but that\'s ok. I just ask that everyone continues to treat others with respect - especially when discussing sensitive issues like the ones contained here.

Tony Dungy
 

Ah... we\'re in the everything else board now boys - in you\'re my world! LOL ;)

First, BMG, nice post. You should do that more often.

Actually Danno, I disagree. Well, it\'s your daughter so you can do whatever you want with her. But teaching a child tolerance and acceptance of different things is BEST done at a young age when they are more easily persuaded. That\'s exactly why children\'s books are always about the one purple elephant that was different from the rest. Rudolph is the perfect example. It teaches kids that there is nothing wrong with being different. This is exactly when you should be teaching your child to accept others, IMHO.

Interesting how that works out, huh? Those godless barbarians over in Europe... oh, wait, those people tend to be more devout in their religious beliefs, more steeped in tradition, more open about sex, less prohibitive with \"mind-alerting\" substances, and more open to helping their fellow man. Hhmmm... maybe Puritanical paternalism isn\'t such a good idea.

And contrary to what may be suggested, crime in the U.S. is worse. Far worse. MAYBE England reported more crimes than the US. I doubt it, b/c the US is much larger. Maybe it\'s a per capita number. Even so, I would bet very large amounts of money that VIOLENT CRIMES occur far more in the US than other industrialized nations like those in Europe.


And finally, on to Scotty, my favorite nemesis in these debate.

If it requires a \"liberal\" mind to know that being gay is OK, then color me a liberal. Being gay isn\'t OK? That\'s disappointing to see, even if your intent was different than it sounded. I guess if it were up to the \"conservative\" media, TV would stil look like the 50s. No minorities, women in the kitchen, and god-forbid the suggestion that anything culd ever go wrong in Pleasantville. Gimme a break.

Queer Eye doesn\'t seem like a show for kids? You let your kids watch fashion shows on Nick, MTV, etc? B/c that\'s what QE is - a show about fashion, food, and decorating. It\'s not a show about being gay. In fact, I think it hurts gays. It perpetuates the feminine snooty attitude that only gays really know good taste. I know many a homosexual who is turned off by the concept. Further, metrosexuals tend to be disenfranchised by the entire idea. I bet you Brad Pitt or George Clooney could sell men fashion or food far better than those guys. QE hits its target square on the head - young-professional, metropolitan, entertainment-minded WOMEN.

Most importantly, I just can\'t get over this \"It\'s wrong to be gay stuff.\" I honestly thought you wiser than that. I don\'t mean that as an insult, I am just stunned. What\'s your grounds for that? It\'s unnatural? So is an ARTIFICIAL hip. And that\'s assuming it\'s a choice. If not, then it\'s no different than being born blind. What\'s the other argument? The Bible says it\'s wrong? Tell me it\'s not that b/c if so, this could get messy. ;)

[Edited on 21/11/2004 by WhoDat]

Tony Dungy
 

GREAT generalization, WD.

Whodat be honest, how many homosexuals do you know? One? Five? Ten?

Being gay isn\'t o.k. Paint me \"religious right\". Oh I\'ll teach my child about acceptance. Jesus went to the very least of the people and spent time with them. Not the \"righteous\". But that doesn\'t exuse their behavior.

It is unnatural. The difference between the gay person and the person with the artificial hip is that the person with the artificial hip will tell you that their hip is indeed fake.
Being born blind and having an artificial hip has nothing to do with homosexuality. Homosexuality is a choice, it\'s not by chance. Now forgive me if it seems that I am being general but all the homosexuals that I know have had bad situations in their lives. Abusive parents, absent parents, parents that ignored their children...

Wow. We got way off topic.

Tony Dungy
 

In regard to gay stereotypes, should we hold our breath waiting on a gay football fan to show up and defend himself??? LOL!

I\'m a bit puzzled on how we got from a black guy/white girl episode (and Tony Dungy hating it) to homosexuality. Do some people equate the two?

I discussed the \"kids watching MNF with their parents\" argument with my wife, and she got livid. She said she\'s sick of having to run her life around other people\'s kids and having to spend her tax dollars to support them. We obviously don\'t have children, and have no plans of changing that, but she wasn\'t buying my defense of other folks wanting to watch the game with their kids. I don\'t have a strong opinion either way (like I said earlier, the skit didn\'t offend me), but I gotta ask if the T.O. & Nicholette Sheridan episode really enhanced anyone\'s enjoyment of the FOOTBALL GAME??? You know they did play one after that, right?

Sure, football is a violent sport. I still have nightmares about Lawrence Taylor tying Joe Theisman\'s leg in a bow, but some of my fondest childhood memories are of watching football with my old man, and I bet alot of you guys have the same memories. My dad was painfully conservative, and would\'ve had a stroke about the T.O. incident, but when I was a kid MNF didn\'t show that sort of thing. If we\'re not gonna tell people whether or not to engage in interracial relationships, or homosexual relationships, isn\'t it just as fair that we don\'t tell people how to raise their kids or whether or not they should go to church? Tolerance has gotta work both ways to be effective.

Tony Dungy
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...e=caple/041118

Uh, they did actually. I\'ll put the relevant parts of the promo in quotes.

Charlie\'s Angels Promo
There are two other plugs in the article, one for MacGyver with a nearly naked Teri Hatcher and a drunk Joe Namath before a game in 85. There\'s also a Rosanne and Michael Irvin promo from 94.

My point is that the NFL seems to have never complained about these plugs. But while I\'m thinking about it, where is the NFL outrage over official team lingerie calendars with topless cheerleaders plugged all over the front page of team websites, ala the Eagles? Based on the school I used to work at, I can tell you that official team sites are very popular with school aged children.

Evidently it\'s OK to sell calendars with nearly naked women posed provacatively because that\'s fine for children to see, but it\'s horribly wrong to let ABC plug it\'s show where a woman does the whole soap opera thing in a towel.

So to recap.

In the 70\'s Charlie\'s Angels in towels sent to \"seduce\" Cosell = A-OK.
In 85, Terri Hatcher wearing strategically placed duct tape and a learing Joe Namath = A-OK.
In 94, Rosanne Arnold in a towel with Michael Irvin = A-OK.
Right now, calendars with pictures like this:
http://store.philadelphiaeagles.com/...ges/46-403.jpg
http://saintsmerchandise.net/saints/...t_16674_01.jpg
are totally A-OK

But this:
http://cache.eonline.com/News/Photos...dan.111604.jpg
Totally and completely offensive, has no place in football of any sort and is a symptom of the decay of our society and is actively trying to destroy our children. Anyone even tangentially related to the NFL is tripping over each other rushing to get in line and scream about how racist, lewd, awful, morally bankrupt it is. Even worse it is spoiling the pure wholesome game that professional football is. You know the game where Ray Lewis, Jamal Lewis and Randy Moss are heroes.

If the NFL wants to climb on such a high horse, then I have just one thought. \"Welcome to AM radio fellas.\"

[Edited on 21/11/2004 by BrooksMustGo]

Tony Dungy
 

BMG, that is another gem and summed up my feelings nicely. I posted that same article on another forum I visit by ESPN. The NFL is hypocritical and it is easy to see a bare back is not the only issue here. Great job BMG.

Tony Dungy
 

Can\'t argue with the evidence, BMG, nor can I any longer declare the \"racist, lewd, awful, morally bankrupt\" MNF a shrine of the holiest of holies (never did, actually). I don\'t remember any of that crap (with God\'s grace on the Roseanne bit), but I applaud your knack for detail, nice post...

But ... lemme ask again. Did the T.O. & Nicholette Sheridan bit enhance your enjoyment of the Eagles vs. Cowboys? Do you think the \"Charlie\'s Angels\" bit or, for God\'s sake, the Roseanne bit enhanced the enjoyment of those respective games? I have my doubts...

But then again, I never claimed to be offended by the skit, nor do I care what my non-existent children are exposed to. Quite frankly, I\'d be happy if ALL NFL calenders bore full-fontal nudity and interracial lesbian action. I\'ve spent a couple of posts trying to defend the breeders, and they ain\'t backed me up. I\'ll keep spending my hard-earned check to take care of somebody else\'s babies, but I\'ll spend the rest at the Hustler Club next time I\'m in New Orleans (like always...).

La vie boheme...

[Edited on 21/11/2004 by mutineer10]

Tony Dungy
 

Mutineer, I see where you\'re coming from and I basically agree with you. It\'s a stupid little plug that adds nothing to the game.

The problem I have is that NFL games aren\'t played in a vacuum. I don\'t think the Desperate Housewives plug added anything more to the game than does a beer, pepsi or southwest airlines commercial. My problem with the NFL is that they want to charge top dollar for their product (even if it\'s a ratings loser) and then want to stipulate what kinds of commercials the network puts on. The networks are a business and they aren\'t broadcasting NFL games as a public service. The NFL is making a king\'s ransom for any game they allow to be aired, but then cry foul when the network tries to get any return off of their investment?

I also think it\'s pretty rich that the NFL wants to claim any sort of morality for their product. Now I do understand that Tagliabue doesn\'t want to go testify before congress. But let\'s get real, the NFL is making money hand over fist and morality has nothing to do with it.

It would be one thing if the NFL wanted to go to some sort of pay-per-view scheme for all of its games. Then they wouldn\'t have to air any commercials, plugs or promos at all. But the NFL chooses to go with network television. I think it\'s ridiculous for the NFL to spend all week biting the hand that\'s feeding them.

It also seems odd to me that the NFL didn\'t climb into bed with the morality police until Janet Jackson embarrassed them. The same sorts of promos have been fine for years. It\'s fine to air countless beer commercials, levitra commercials, Bob Dole\'s \"little blue friend\" pepsi commercials, beer commercials, and sell all of their nearly naked cheerleader calendars. But it\'s not ok for the network to try and steer a few viewers to another show that 18-50 year old men might want to watch.

So I agree with you that the plug doesn\'t add anything to the game per se. But neither do all the other commercials I see whenever I sit down to watch a game. By the same token, if ABC had chosen to just make 10 Desperate Housewives 30 second commercials with the whole cast parading around in lingerie or towels and put into the program, then I doubt there would have been a peep from the NFL or anyone else this week.

It\'s the hypocrisy that I think is stupid. Someone needs to tell the NFL, \"pssst, hey pot, you\'re black.\"

Tony Dungy
 

I agree with Whoodi - BMG continues to put together arguments that are just hard as hell to dispute.

Is it a generalization? Maybe. Name a TV show before 1965 that didn\'t portray a woman\'s role as in the house, that showed a successful minority, or that even hinted towards being gay. It\'s not a generalization when it accurately defines the vast majority of the group in question. However, the \"all gays were abused\" argument - now there\'s an argument with some backing. Most of the gay people you know? I\'ll ask you the same question... How many gay people go you know?

Off the top of my head I can think of 23. I think there\'s more though. Does that qualify me as an \"expert\" to you Ice? Let me ask you a more pertinent question - where do you live?

Well thanks for clearing that up. The Gay Yoda has spoken. You know being gay is a choice? Why, b/c you\'re not thus it must be? For some, I do not doubt there is choice involved. But for many gays that I know, it is all they\'ve ever know. Amazingly, very few of them got locked in cages as children so that abusive past theory kinda gets shot down huh? Oh, and on that abusive theory - inner city families tend to harbor the most abuse, drug use, crime, and are the most broken. Interestingly, homosexuality is far less common. Like to try another idea?

As for the hp argument, well your response doesn\'t make any sense. People like you complain when you see Queer Eye on TV. Those flamers. But then the guy with the artificial hip is OK b/c he tells you he has a fake hip? So it\'s OK to be gay if you tell people you\'re gay so long as it\'s not on TV? This is just a stupid argument. If your argument is that being gay is unnatural, then I guess you should give gays special treatment like other people with \"unnatural\" birth defects. If it is that it\'s a choice, then I guess they deserve tax dollars to help them just like the drug addicts and cancerous cigarette smokers, or liver failing drunks huh?

But I don\'t have to show that you\'re wrong. Society will prove that. Being gay will be as unconsequential in 20 years as being an inter-racial couple is now. After all, in the mid-80s that was the great fear against which the conservatives and \"religious right\" fought so hard, else the end of civilized society might ensue. LOL.

What\'s funny to me is that the \"religous right\" always looks to Jesus - isn\'t it interesting that he\'s probably the world\'s greatest LIBERAL? LMAO. Open your minds people - your way is your way, not the right way.

Tony Dungy
 

What a thread! A lot of stuff is going down here.... so .......saintswhosi (11/20 19:00) and BMG (11/21 11:45) - gr8 posts.

Danno is right to decide how he wants to bring his daughter up - providing there is no physical or mental abuse. And I believe that Danno is a good Pa trying to be a good Pa. That\'s cool. Just like every parent should be.

But the real world is a \"funny\" place with many a surprise. What works for you; may not work me. What I like to see happen; may be your greatest fear. And ultimately that is what can make the world a really interesting place. Yes we are all different.

Notes on 2 subjects; Crime and homosexuality. I have little knowledge of either. But hey - since when did that stop anyone giving an opinion ;).

Crime. spkb25 correlates what is in the public eye or everyday practices with crimes committed. If, and I do not know, the UK has a higher crime rate - it probably is NOT due to the adverts on telly, and stuff like that. But what type of crime; and what statistics*. The Home Office figures imply a reduction of 36% in crime since 1995; 39% of the crime is theft and handling of stolen goods. It is a BIG story when there is violent crime and a STAGGERING BIG story if any firearm was involved. I guess it depends on the crime that most concerns you.

Homosexuality: I do not know how these relationships come about, but I know many people in one sex partnerships. Some are very good friends - fine people who respect other people\'s rights and space - and geninely care about the welfare of others. I would not want it any other way; thanks.

* statistics - use and abuse thereof. Saints offence and Brroks had great games today. Because Saints offence was more than the Broncos. Brooks could have the most passing yards today. Go figure...........

Tony Dungy
 

Who, I\'ve seen you argue this point through about four or five pages of posts so I\'ll make one more post about this and move on. I don\'t have the time to argue on and on about something that won\'t change either of our minds. You can say that you won the argument and even have the closing arguments if you want.

First off, you do gerneralize quite a bit. I know more about myself now that you\'ve told me how I think- being the \"gay yoda\" and all.

And I\'m having a hard time understanding what all this has to do with a fake hip. Do you have a prejudice with people with bum hips? And honestly, if people with hip replacements were all over television begging for acceptance I\'d be tired of them also.

Now this is the \"choice\" or \"chance\" argument. (Is that what you\'re getting at with the hip thing?) Plain and simple, I say choice you say chance.

What do they need tax dollars for? Does an a-hole need tax dollars for being an a-hole? The addicts that you mentioned may need medical help for bad decisions. Are you saying that the bad decisions that a homosexual makes may lead to a disease that needs medical treatment? Alot of people make poor decisions when sex is involved, homosexual or otherwise. If there are programs to help people with a disease then I have no problem with taxpayer money going to it. I don\'t want anyone to suffer regardless of their beliefs. But a homosexual doesn\'t need special treatment because he choses to be \"gay\".

Here\'s the great hypocracy. If I don\'t believe what you believe, I\'m closed-minded. Quite a contradiction. Another tired generalization.

Next.

Tony Dungy
 

Wha? Pak is back? :P

Tony Dungy
 

Jeff Garcia is bald, and has big ears...

Not green though...

Tony Dungy
 

WhoDat, sorry to not respond in a prompt manner. I\'ve been busy out publically disapproving of homosexuality. It\'s a hard job, but somebody has to have some moral courage.

As for your post of 21/11/2004 at 00:21...

I didn\'t say it takes a liberal mind to be guilty of such. I said the liberal media has an agenda to promote the idea that homosexuality is ok. I want to be able to choose for my children what they should believe until they are old enough to do so for themselves. I get the sense that rather than simply exposing me and my family to homosexuality there are those in control of television programming that are out to convert my children\'s belief\'s. I am also against the trend of television portraying teenage sex as an ok thing to be involved in. Does that too mean I want to go back to the world of the 1950\'s?

The thing about shows like QE is that they aren\'t saying \"here\'s a fashion show and we happend to be gay\". They are instead saying \"we\'re GAY so watch our fashion show because we\'re GAY.\" There\'s a philosophical difference here and I find the latter unappealing.

Lastly, I\'m not offended, but confused as to why my belief that homosexuaity is wrong somehow makes me unwise. I get this even when the tone of my post was about tolerance of homosexuality. I don\'t want homosexuals hauled out of their homes and shot for their acts. I just want the stream of \"being gay is ok\" from my tv to end.

I\'m going to assume from your tone that you believe that being gay is not a choice, but is simply being born differently than others. Therefore, you must see it as being akin to being born with a birth defect such a blindness. I can buy that. It is one or the other. Thus, you must be in favor of surgically or chemically correcting this degeneration since you wouldn\'t have someone who is blind to remain that way if a treatment were available. I bet your 20 something gay friends would be happy to see that you view them that way.

I say it\'s choice and the fact that your friends say that it wasn\'t a choice for them doesn\'t mean that it wasn\'t. Maybe they are just looking for an excuse to jusitify their rebellion against society. We all tend to justify our actions in this manner even when we\'re wrong so I can perceive that this could be more true than you or they might be willing to admit.

Tony Dungy
 

BMG,

I had consigned you to the scrap heap, based largely on some of your earlier posts on Brooks. However you have more than redeemed yourself :yourock:

I will continue to disagree with some of your thoughts on the Saints. However I feel that your wider view of the world shows genuine insight.

The burning question remains................

Why does the media tolerate, and even endorse, the delusional hypocrisy that the NFL spouts?

The product is great, but why oh why does this double standard not get broken down. Why does such vacuous altruism hold true, unless a society allows it????

There is a lack of accountability for all things truly high up on the ladder. Pity the unemployed fool who steals to feed his family, his justice will be swift and silent.
But if you are at the top of the food chain.............

Bottom line, the NFL will continue to wave whatever flag it wants, as long as it dominates market share the way it does.
Remember the GOLDEN rule:

\" He who has the gold makes all the rules\"

Tony Dungy
 

Taxing the hell out of porn is probably in the mail, but that won\'t stop people from buying it. Alcohol and cigarettes are already taxed to hell and back, but folks (myself included) just go on smokin\' and drinkin\'. The old \"Sin Tax\" is making a killing for alot of politicians, but it\'s not stopping people from \"sinning.\"

I resent it all. Sure, maybe I\'m killing myself with alcohol and cigs, but you\'re killing yourself with that Big Mac and supersize fries and cola, too. Frankly, I hate the government and society\'s compulsion to regulate morality, but there ain\'t nothing I can do about it.

I don\'t want full-frontal nudity in front of anyone\'s kids at 7 PM, but I want the right to see a little full-frontal (and much more) in the privacy of my own home. I also want the right to have a smoke and a beer at my leisure, so long as I don\'t do so in a place deemed \"improper.\" Until these debaucheries are labelled illegal by our friendly elected officials, don\'t punish me because my \"morality\" differs from your own.

Porn remains (solidly) the most popular thing on the internet, do we have some hypocrites in the audience???