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papz 02-09-2005 09:52 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
The Braves are like the New England Patriots of football. No matter who they plug in, that player tends to produce.

In football defense wins championships. In baseball pitching wins championships. I don't totally disagree with you on signing a big time bopper in the outfield, but you have to control the budget wisely. When Lawyer Milloy was becoming too expensive, as will Ty Law, the Patriots cut their loses and still won. Gary Sheffield and Javy Lopez became to expensive, and were replaced with Drew and Estrada. The Braves still won the division title.

Remember when the Braves won their lone world series, the won it with outstanding pitching and timely hitting. It doesn't matter who's on your time, it's when you can get hot and get a streak going. Look at the Yankees last year, there whole team could have started for the allstar team but they still lost to the Redsox. It's all about pitching and clutch hitting. Having Sheffield and Lopez for those years didn't do anything for the Braves. They still didn't get to the world series and got the same results with whoever they plugged in. So why waste all that money knowing you will get the same results?

Like in the other thread, the Braves have 2 of the top prospects in MLB. Jeff Francoeur is supposely one of the best prospects the Braves have ever produced. That's saying something. As far as the Braves are concerned, he's as talented as Andruw Jones if not better. Andy Marte is a future 40 homer bopper who is only one year away if even. Voted by baseball america as the top hitting prospect in the game. Why not wait half a year or so? Why waste 12 plus million to sign a Maggilo Ordonez? They are only going to get the same results no matter who's there.

Remember when the Marlins won the world series they won it with an extrodinary small payroll and outstanding young pitching. Look at the players on that team who delivered in clutch situations... Jeff Conine... Josh Beckett... Carl Pavano. They weren't paid millions and millions and still got the job done.

When the Braves won their lone world series, the won it with great pitching. With the acqusition of Hudson, return of Smoltz, ever improving Hampton, a solid Thompson, and Ramirez (one of the league leaders in ERA before he got hurt), we having the makings of that world series team. The Braves need to reserve their money to keep this pitching staff intack. Let me remind you although we had David Justice and Ron Gant on that team, here are some of the hitters that contributed the most to that WS team. Mark Lemke (one of my favorite second baseman off all-time), Jeff Blauser, Sid Bream, Fransico Cabera, etc. which are hardly your household names. Omg I almost forgot Otis Nixon. Darnnit who was the catcher? Damon Berryhill? I know there were a couple of others too.

Hope it was a good read saintswhoadi ;)

[Edited on 10/2/2005 by papz]

papz 02-09-2005 10:01 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
One more thing, our sweeting swinging first baseman LaRoche tore the cover off the ball in the second half of the season. Remember that was his rookie year, which is going to be scary for the rest of the league very soon. The platoon of Franco and LaRoche works extremely well.

saintswhodi 02-10-2005 09:16 AM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
I know what our basis for winning was, but you made the point, we won ONE title in all those years. I am not satisfied with just wining the division title. WE ARE NOT the Patriots of baseball cause we DO NOT win the big one, or even get to it any more. We win the division, which means nothing. And the pitching we have now in no way equals the pitching we had then, not even close. I think early we are ranked as having the 3rd best until in the league, but I am not sold on Hampton, Ramirez, or Smoltz coming back full time. I like the IDEA of Smoltz coming back full time, but his value was as an excellent closer. Now we did bring in another closer who whould be pretty good(forgot his name) but Smoltz in my opinion is not a #2 starter. I hope beyong hope he proves me wrong.

Those names you listed brought back some memories. Terry Pendleton, Deion, also. I remember those guys, and they were a TEAM, but they only one won title. John Smoltz had spoken out before last season about how he felt there was no life to this team, like in the past. He said it seemed more like a business than ever. Now lastyear he did amend that during and after the season but I agreed with him both times. It seems the Braves have fallen into the trap that thay can take any pitching rotation and make them Smoltz, Avery, Glavine and Maddox with Wohlers. That just isn\'t true. Houston beat them with the bat last year in the postseason, and although I love that we have strong pitching, this is becoming a hitters\' game. It\'s kinda like the CB in the NFL, the game has changed around them. Now I am not saying you don\'t need strong pitching, the Cardinals proved you do. But that\'s not enough in this day of baseball if you wanna win it all. For all thier great pitching, the Red Sox would not have beaten the Yankess if not for clutch hitting from Ortiz and Damon. On the flip side, if not for their hitting the Cards would not have BEEN IN the World Series. It\'s a fine line. But pitchign is no longer the end all beat all in baseball, and that\'s what I think too many Braves fans hold on ot. Again, we had one of the best rotations in major league history and won world series out of plenty of division titles. We are not getting over the hump. I would have liked to have see us make a run at Beltran. Not Ordonez. But unless these prospects you were talking about get brought up, we are looking at a struggling year for our hitting.

[Edited on 10/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

papz 02-10-2005 11:34 AM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
I\'m under the impression that you want a big time superstar hitter which will command Carlos Delgado or Carlos Beltran money. Remember that both Damon\'s salary and Ortiz\'s salary combined will not even equal Carlos Beltran\'s money(17 million a year). One player does not make a team so why committ so much money for a Carlos Beltran. Look at every team Alex Rodriquez has been on, they have never won anything. Seattle didn\'t win, Rangers didn\'t win, and the Yankees didn\'t win. And he commands 25 mil a year which handicaps a teams flexibility. New York is New York, the spot light for sports and endorsements. Atlanta isn\'t that big market team like it was in the early 90s, they can\'t afford to do that. Not many teams these days are adding payroll besides the Mets and Yankees. Look at Arizona, they are millions and millions in debt.

Houston beat us with Roy Oswalt, Brandon Backe, and Roger Clemens. Carlos Beltran might have hit a gazillion homeruns in the playoffs, but it was their strong pitching that shut us down. We were flat out out-pitched.

All the Braves need is a healthy and consistent season out of Furcal and Giles, our number one and two hitters. They are the table setter for the offense. Both are capable .300 hitters and both capable of driving in 60 runs, also scoring 80 plus runs. Chipper Jones will bounce back and have his 30 homer 100 rbi and .300 year. Remember he started struggling offensively when he shifted to the outfield. Now back at third he can concentrate on his hitting again. Last year his average was so horrible the first half of the season. In the second half it up once he moved back to third and he should have a allstar season once again. I really feel that Mondesi will have 20 plus homers and drive in about 80 runs or so. Estrada will hit .300 10 homers 80 rbis. LaRoache and Franco platoon from last year will put up the same or even better numbers from a year ago. Although Andruw Jones is an enigma, he puts up 30 dingers and 90 rbi\'s every year. I agree with you that he needs to use his speed more like early in his career. But it also looks like he put on 20 pounds so hopefully he will come into camp back to his 200 hit season\'s form. Brain Jordan, sigh. I wasn\'t a fan of the signing but what if, a big IF, he isn\'t injured. If he is healthy, 20 dingers and 80 rbis isn\'t out of the question. If this all happens, it sounds like a balanced offense doesn\'t it?

Have faith saintswhoadi :exclam: Bobby Cox and Leo Mazzone believes that this is the best pitching staff they\'ve ever assembled. I know it is hard to believe since we had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, and Leibrant (haha! do you remember this old lefty!?!?!), but it came out of their mouths. And it seems to me they know a thing or two about pitching ;)

saintswhodi 02-10-2005 12:32 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
I have faith, really I do. But this winning the division no world series stuff is getting old. Me wanting a Beltran is just frustration and you recognized that right off so kudos. I do trust in Cox and definitely Mazzone, but I am tired of being over-looked cause it is assumed we will win the division, which we will do, but not being considered a contender for the title.

I remember Liebrandt. lol

I think you are putting in a lot of faith in players who have been injured, older players, and re-treads. But to hell with it. I will jump on board with you. You have convinced me to look on the bright side of the Braves. Now if we aren\'t in the World Series next year cause of our hitting, I will have a hearty I told you so for you. ;)

papz 02-10-2005 06:58 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
Haha! *crosses fingers*

I swear Liebrandt looked like he was 50 and still was pitching pretty well. Those were the days.

saintswhodi 02-10-2005 07:38 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
Remember fat Terry Pendleton on 3rd? Now THAT was a team. haha

papz 02-10-2005 08:05 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
HAHA... I remember when he won the batting title with .314 average... that was horrible. I still remember when you hit 20 homers, you were considered a great power hitter.

saintswhodi 02-10-2005 10:24 PM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
True dat. Now you just get laughed at. hahaha

Danno 02-11-2005 07:46 AM

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi

True dat. Now you just get laughed at. hahaha
I didn\'t know you guys were Braves fans. My lil sis lives in Peachtree City so I go to a game or two every year. I saw the game this year where Hampton hit one out. It was a sweet game. Shes a doctor married to a doctor so they have corporate seats. I got to sit about 12 rows up just left of home plate. Sure beats the crap outta my usual nosebleed seats.
Does Hudson now give us a rotation similar to the nineties era staff?

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