Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

The Braves are like the New England Patriots of football. No matter who they plug in, that player tends to produce.

In football defense wins championships. In baseball pitching wins championships. I don't totally disagree with you on signing a big time bopper in the outfield, but you have to control the budget wisely. When Lawyer Milloy was becoming too expensive, as will Ty Law, the Patriots cut their loses and still won. Gary Sheffield and Javy Lopez became to expensive, and were replaced with Drew and Estrada. The Braves still won the division title.

Remember when the Braves won their lone world series, the won it with outstanding pitching and timely hitting. It doesn't matter who's on your time, it's when you can get hot and get a streak going. Look at the Yankees last year, there whole team could have started for the allstar team but they still lost to the Redsox. It's all about pitching and clutch hitting. Having Sheffield and Lopez for those years didn't do anything for the Braves. They still didn't get to the world series and got the same results with whoever they plugged in. So why waste all that money knowing you will get the same results?

Like in the other thread, the Braves have 2 of the top prospects in MLB. Jeff Francoeur is supposely one of the best prospects the Braves have ever produced. That's saying something. As far as the Braves are concerned, he's as talented as Andruw Jones if not better. Andy Marte is a future 40 homer bopper who is only one year away if even. Voted by baseball america as the top hitting prospect in the game. Why not wait half a year or so? Why waste 12 plus million to sign a Maggilo Ordonez? They are only going to get the same results no matter who's there.

Remember when the Marlins won the world series they won it with an extrodinary small payroll and outstanding young pitching. Look at the players on that team who delivered in clutch situations... Jeff Conine... Josh Beckett... Carl Pavano. They weren't paid millions and millions and still got the job done.

When the Braves won their lone world series, the won it with great pitching. With the acqusition of Hudson, return of Smoltz, ever improving Hampton, a solid Thompson, and Ramirez (one of the league leaders in ERA before he got hurt), we having the makings of that world series team. The Braves need to reserve their money to keep this pitching staff intack. Let me remind you although we had David Justice and Ron Gant on that team, here are some of the hitters that contributed the most to that WS team. Mark Lemke (one of my favorite second baseman off all-time), Jeff Blauser, Sid Bream, Fransico Cabera, etc. which are hardly your household names. Omg I almost forgot Otis Nixon. Darnnit who was the catcher? Damon Berryhill? I know there were a couple of others too.

Hope it was a good read saintswhoadi ;)

[Edited on 10/2/2005 by papz]

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

One more thing, our sweeting swinging first baseman LaRoche tore the cover off the ball in the second half of the season. Remember that was his rookie year, which is going to be scary for the rest of the league very soon. The platoon of Franco and LaRoche works extremely well.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I know what our basis for winning was, but you made the point, we won ONE title in all those years. I am not satisfied with just wining the division title. WE ARE NOT the Patriots of baseball cause we DO NOT win the big one, or even get to it any more. We win the division, which means nothing. And the pitching we have now in no way equals the pitching we had then, not even close. I think early we are ranked as having the 3rd best until in the league, but I am not sold on Hampton, Ramirez, or Smoltz coming back full time. I like the IDEA of Smoltz coming back full time, but his value was as an excellent closer. Now we did bring in another closer who whould be pretty good(forgot his name) but Smoltz in my opinion is not a #2 starter. I hope beyong hope he proves me wrong.

Those names you listed brought back some memories. Terry Pendleton, Deion, also. I remember those guys, and they were a TEAM, but they only one won title. John Smoltz had spoken out before last season about how he felt there was no life to this team, like in the past. He said it seemed more like a business than ever. Now lastyear he did amend that during and after the season but I agreed with him both times. It seems the Braves have fallen into the trap that thay can take any pitching rotation and make them Smoltz, Avery, Glavine and Maddox with Wohlers. That just isn\'t true. Houston beat them with the bat last year in the postseason, and although I love that we have strong pitching, this is becoming a hitters\' game. It\'s kinda like the CB in the NFL, the game has changed around them. Now I am not saying you don\'t need strong pitching, the Cardinals proved you do. But that\'s not enough in this day of baseball if you wanna win it all. For all thier great pitching, the Red Sox would not have beaten the Yankess if not for clutch hitting from Ortiz and Damon. On the flip side, if not for their hitting the Cards would not have BEEN IN the World Series. It\'s a fine line. But pitchign is no longer the end all beat all in baseball, and that\'s what I think too many Braves fans hold on ot. Again, we had one of the best rotations in major league history and won world series out of plenty of division titles. We are not getting over the hump. I would have liked to have see us make a run at Beltran. Not Ordonez. But unless these prospects you were talking about get brought up, we are looking at a struggling year for our hitting.

[Edited on 10/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I\'m under the impression that you want a big time superstar hitter which will command Carlos Delgado or Carlos Beltran money. Remember that both Damon\'s salary and Ortiz\'s salary combined will not even equal Carlos Beltran\'s money(17 million a year). One player does not make a team so why committ so much money for a Carlos Beltran. Look at every team Alex Rodriquez has been on, they have never won anything. Seattle didn\'t win, Rangers didn\'t win, and the Yankees didn\'t win. And he commands 25 mil a year which handicaps a teams flexibility. New York is New York, the spot light for sports and endorsements. Atlanta isn\'t that big market team like it was in the early 90s, they can\'t afford to do that. Not many teams these days are adding payroll besides the Mets and Yankees. Look at Arizona, they are millions and millions in debt.

Houston beat us with Roy Oswalt, Brandon Backe, and Roger Clemens. Carlos Beltran might have hit a gazillion homeruns in the playoffs, but it was their strong pitching that shut us down. We were flat out out-pitched.

All the Braves need is a healthy and consistent season out of Furcal and Giles, our number one and two hitters. They are the table setter for the offense. Both are capable .300 hitters and both capable of driving in 60 runs, also scoring 80 plus runs. Chipper Jones will bounce back and have his 30 homer 100 rbi and .300 year. Remember he started struggling offensively when he shifted to the outfield. Now back at third he can concentrate on his hitting again. Last year his average was so horrible the first half of the season. In the second half it up once he moved back to third and he should have a allstar season once again. I really feel that Mondesi will have 20 plus homers and drive in about 80 runs or so. Estrada will hit .300 10 homers 80 rbis. LaRoache and Franco platoon from last year will put up the same or even better numbers from a year ago. Although Andruw Jones is an enigma, he puts up 30 dingers and 90 rbi\'s every year. I agree with you that he needs to use his speed more like early in his career. But it also looks like he put on 20 pounds so hopefully he will come into camp back to his 200 hit season\'s form. Brain Jordan, sigh. I wasn\'t a fan of the signing but what if, a big IF, he isn\'t injured. If he is healthy, 20 dingers and 80 rbis isn\'t out of the question. If this all happens, it sounds like a balanced offense doesn\'t it?

Have faith saintswhoadi :exclam: Bobby Cox and Leo Mazzone believes that this is the best pitching staff they\'ve ever assembled. I know it is hard to believe since we had Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, and Leibrant (haha! do you remember this old lefty!?!?!), but it came out of their mouths. And it seems to me they know a thing or two about pitching ;)

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I have faith, really I do. But this winning the division no world series stuff is getting old. Me wanting a Beltran is just frustration and you recognized that right off so kudos. I do trust in Cox and definitely Mazzone, but I am tired of being over-looked cause it is assumed we will win the division, which we will do, but not being considered a contender for the title.

I remember Liebrandt. lol

I think you are putting in a lot of faith in players who have been injured, older players, and re-treads. But to hell with it. I will jump on board with you. You have convinced me to look on the bright side of the Braves. Now if we aren\'t in the World Series next year cause of our hitting, I will have a hearty I told you so for you. ;)

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Haha! *crosses fingers*

I swear Liebrandt looked like he was 50 and still was pitching pretty well. Those were the days.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Remember fat Terry Pendleton on 3rd? Now THAT was a team. haha

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

HAHA... I remember when he won the batting title with .314 average... that was horrible. I still remember when you hit 20 homers, you were considered a great power hitter.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

True dat. Now you just get laughed at. hahaha

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I didn\'t know you guys were Braves fans. My lil sis lives in Peachtree City so I go to a game or two every year. I saw the game this year where Hampton hit one out. It was a sweet game. Shes a doctor married to a doctor so they have corporate seats. I got to sit about 12 rows up just left of home plate. Sure beats the crap outta my usual nosebleed seats.
Does Hudson now give us a rotation similar to the nineties era staff?

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

In my opinion, no. In the 90s, we hade 4 guys who could have been #1s elsewhere. With Hudson, we have a true ace, but the guys behing him while good and able to be coached up by Leo, can not rival Glavine, Maddox, Smoltz, Avery, Wohlers, and shot out to papz ;) , Leibrandt. Unless we are willing to have a Yankee sized payroll, I don\'t see us having a rotation like that again. But Hudson as an ace is an upgrade from last year. And Smoltz(again cause of papz\' optimism) I now believe can be a full time starter.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I have this feeling the ace of the staff this year will be John Thompson... he\'s getting better every single year. This will be his second season under Leo... ;)

I can\'t lie to you, I\'m also skeptical on Smoltz. But he\'s JOHN SMOLTZ DARNNIT! :P Dan Kolb will be serviceable as our closer. So hopefully Smoltzy can bring his 97 mile per hour heater and devastating slider back into the rotation and win 16 games. (Without blowing out his arm *crossing fingers*)

Win estimation per pitcher (mines :D )

Hudson 17-7 sub 3.30 ERA
Smoltz 15-8 sub 3.9 ERA
Hampton 15-11 sub 4.2 ERA
Thompson 19-11 3.7 ERA
Ramirez please stay healthy!!!! 14-9 sub 3.3 ERA

Kolb 38 saves 2.8 ERA

Is this wishful thinking?

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Very wishful, but I like it. ;)

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

you forgot the all-star hitting shortstop of......................rafael belliard. he was a machine at the plate. :D

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

ROFL Saints1017 LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... omg you made me laugh pretty hard there... good job :P

I remember when they first built Coors field... he BARELY and I mean BARELY cleared the fence there. Classics lol.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

It\'s early, but RF Raul Mondesi is the talk of Braves\' camp, looking fit, flashing opposite-field power. \"I\'ve seen a lot of looks on a lot of faces in a lot of spring-training camps,\" Braves GM John Schuerholz says. \"This guy is happy to be here.\" Adds manager Bobby Cox, \"He really has made a great impression on all the players, everyone. He\'s always been one of the hardest-playing players around. You could never say anything about the way he plays the game.\"

I\'ve also read another article stateing that Mondesi\'s body is rock solid and he looks like he\'s in the best shape in a long time. Things are looking up!

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Me too. Man it\'s good to see some Braves fans!

Do you Remember?

Chris Chambliss
Bob Horner
Rafael Ramierez
Claudell Washington
Gene Garber
Bruce Benedict
Glen Hubbard
Jerry Royster
Terry Harper
Pascual Perez

Man, I could go on and on.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I only became a fan in \'89 so a lot of those names aren\'t familiar to me. And I nowhere near followed it as closely as I do now. I still can\'t watch a full game, but I do pay attention to who is on the roster outside of just the big names. I think the internet has made me a better Braves fan, though I have been a fan for a long time.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Glen Hubbard is/was a coach for us I think. And I remember Pascual Perez. But the others are foreign to me. LoL SW that\'s probably around when I started watching them also. It\'s okay though saintsfan... we know you are an oldtimer ;)

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I started watching the Braves when I was 9. That was 1978 I think. Man, it sucks to be old. Bob Hope (not the comedian) was once the promotions guy for the Braves -- and later he made all their travel arrangements. He wrote a book about his experience with the team and Ted Turner etc. You guys should look for it.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

You got any idea what the name of that book is? I wouldn\'t mind reading about some Braves history.

[Edited on 28/2/2005 by saintswhodi]

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Whodi --

Here\'s the name of that book. I\'m not sure if it\'s in print anymore -- in fact I\'m pretty sure it isn\'t, but I got it from the library oddly enough.

We Could\'ve Finished Last Without You: An Irreverent Look at the Atlanta Braves, the Losingest Team in Baseball for the Past 25 Years

It\'s an easy read. If you find it let me know what you think.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I can prob find it on Amazon. I will let you know how I liked it if I should find it.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

saintfan, found it on Amazon for $1.57. $5.00 total with shipping included. I am gonna check the library first and if not i\'ll be ordering it later this week. Thanks for the heads up.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

We just signed Hudson to a 4 year contract extension for a modest 11 million per year. What a bargain. If he were to test the market, I\'m pretty sure he\'d be able to get much more than that. GO BRAVES!

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I saw that. Good move. Now if we had better outfielders, and I was sold on Smoltz going back to a starter, and Chipper hits all year, and Andrew........ ;)

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

You and your if\'s ... :casstet:

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

VERO BEACH, Fla. -- Andruw Jones and Brian Jordan homered off an ineffective Jeff Weaver as the Atlanta Braves beat the Los Angeles Dodgers in a game called after eight innings because of rain.

Mike Hampton was extremely sharp in his first outing of the spring for the Braves, pitching two perfect innings with one strikeout. The left-handed sinkerballer got three groundouts in the second and threw 14 of his 23 pitches for strikes.

\"Wow, is all I can say. Top of his game,\" Atlanta manager Bobby Cox said. \"Movement and location -- outstanding. ... He\'s got outstanding control right now this early in the spring, which is not easy for any pitcher.\"

Especially one coming off knee surgery. Hampton said his left knee is not yet 100 percent, but it has improved since he arrived at spring training and it feels \"pretty strong.\"


Mondesi and Chipper homered yesterday. ;)

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I hate to bring bad news to this thread, but any Braves Fan should recognize the name Rick Mahler. He died at 51. Here\'s the story:

KISSIMMEE, Fla. -- Former Braves pitcher and current Mets minor league coach Rick Mahler died Wednesday of a heart attack.

LINK

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Yea heard about him yesterday... don\'t really know who he is but... may his soul rest in peace.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Sorry to heat about Mahler. Don\'t know much about him, but I have heard the name in association with the Braves.

On a lighter note, papz, I am getting excited. Tell me about these prospects: Andy Marte(3b), Jeff Francouer(of), Brian McCann(C), Kyle Davies(rhp), Jake Stevens(lhp), and Anthony Lerew(rhp).

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I\'ve told you so much about Marte already, and ya know what??!!! He\'s lighting it up in camp. Too bad there is no DH in the National League because Chipper is at 3rd and Jordan in left. Did you know Jordan homered the other day!?!?! He batted 3 times and hit 3 rockets... that\'s what Bobby Cox said. He\'s look pretty good as well as Langerhans, the guy platooning with him. LF and RF will be fine like I said all along. Both Mondesi and Jordan are healthy and we have very solid depth there in case Jordan does break something he hasn\'t yet.

Same with Francouer, scroll all the way up! That\'s also his ceiling. Marte and Francouer are the two most heralded prospect of this organization since Andruw Jones and Chipper Jones. :D I can\'t stop smiling.

Brain McCann - sound catcher with outstanding hitting potential. This guy can really rake. A notch down from Daric Barton now with the Althletics in the Mulder trade.

Kyle Davies - Absolutely untouchable. Cannot be had via trade for anyone. This is the guy who Oakland wanted for Tim Hudson but we refused and gave them Dan Meyer instead. Our other top pitching prospect. He throws in the low 90\'s with a devastating change and a above average slider. Needs a little more seasoning in triple A to work on his control. I think once Hampton\'s salary jumps into the 15-16 million dollar range, we\'ll find a way to trade him and Davies will take over his rotation spot. If Horacio isn\'t ready as the 5th starter because of injury, Davies will start out as the 5th starter. VERY HIGH TOUTED prospect who is considered a legit number 2 starter.

Here is something about McCann and Stevens on Baseball America:

Q: randy from atlanta asks:
do mccann and stevens have your vote for the top 100 also you say scouts drool over stevens projection but yet you say his ceiling is only a number 2 ...also can mccann hit 30 hr and bat 280 in the show..thanks alot merry christmas

A: Bill Ballew: Hi, Randy, and Merry Christmas to you, too. Don\'t get too hung up with saying Stevens is a number 2 starter. There aren\'t many true No. 2\'s in the big leagues, and Stevens has that potential. Time will tell, but McCann could be a .280-30-90 if catching doesn\'t take too big a toll on his body. McCann would be a top 100 guy for me, with Stevens getting serious consideration.

Bill Ballew: Davies is a warrior with a nasty repertoire. When he is at the top of his game, he can be unbeatable. After making some adjustments in his mechanics two years ago, Davies has taken off. He could contribute in Atlanta this year if someone goes down in the rotation. Davies is the top pitching prospect in the organization and should get a chance to prove that as a starter in the big leagues by the start of the 2006 slate. I don\'t know who I would compare him to in the big leagues, but I see him as a competitive workhorse with a killer changeup.

TOP TEN PROSPECTS ATLANTA BRAVES
1. Jeff Francoeur, of <~~ Masher;5 tools
2. Andy Marte, 3b <~~ Masher;5 tools
3. Brian McCann, c <~~ Masher
4. Kyle Davies, rhp <~~ Just wait and see ;)
5. Anthony Lerew, rhp <~~ Throws in the high 90\'s 95-97ish
6. Jake Stevens, lhp <~~~ Best control in the organization
7. Luis Hernandez, ss <~~ will take Furcal\'s job next year
8. Kelly Johnson, of <~~ not as good as 2 years ago
9. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c <~~ drafted last year
10. Blaine Boyer, rhp <~~ Flamethrower who needs control

There is so much more, but if I keep going on and on, it\'s going to be a novel. All in all, things are always looking bright for our Atlanta Braves ;) Actually they are tied with my Texas Rangers... my two favorites.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Count me as officially excited. :dance:

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Rick Mahler, Zane Smith, Rick Camp, Paul Zuvella, Rick Cerone :casstet:

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Here was Schuerholz on that giddy day: \"We think this pitching staff has the capability of pitching as well as or better than any pitching staff we\'ve ever assembled.\"

:yltype: :heartpump: :fanclub:

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Jordan recorded two hits in three at-bats against the Yankees and saw his Grapefruit League batting average drop from .714 to .700 (7-for-10). He\'s also hit two homers, which provides further hope that he\'ll be more productive this season than the past two, when the left knee limited him to a total of 127 games.

:patos:

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Getting dangerously close to overkill paps. Don\'t they only face starters for two innings or something? :no_no:

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Indeed Whodi. I\'m excited, but I\'m not ready to rest easy. It was good to see Jordan triple tho. I know he\'s been injured, but I think his presence with the Rangers last year helped \'em, and injured or not I think they\'ll miss him. It\'s good to have him back even if he\'ll be sharing time in left this year.

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

Hey hey hey! I\'m getting our hopes up for another title run. Who can blame me :P

Atlanta Braves for saintswhoadi
 

I forgot to mention Chipper hit a homer off Randy Johnson today and Brain Jordan continues his tear with 2 more hits today. And Hampton shut out the Yanks for 3 innings striking out two. :icon_eyesroll: