Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I have an idea that might be interesting.

And it goes like this ...

I would like to propose a debate challenge. Four members of B&G will be involved.

Who you ask?

1. GumboBC
2. JKool
3. saintwhodi
4. WhoDat

There will be 2 teams. It will be myself and JKool against WhoDat and saintwhodi. That is if everyone agrees? There will be one debate per week.

All four of us will pick one topic to debate per week. The debate will be kept "clean". I mean no insults, jabs, and nothing else will be posted that doesn't pertain to the subject at hand.

Anything can be used in the debate. Stats, your opinions, articles from the media, etc., ect,....

No one can post in the thread except the parties involved. Once we finish the debate other members will vote on which team made the most and best points overall.

This might be a good idea and maybe not. And of course we will have to get approval from Halo and JoeSam.

The rules can be adjusted to make the debate as fair as possible. So any ideas are welcomed?

What do you think WhoDat, saintwhodi, and JKool.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

gumbo, u should set up a private board for your discussion. forever, lmfao

have fun.

What was the purpose of this post? Plain and simple an attack! Stop !

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by JOESAM2002]

JoeSam, no it was an opinion. Note the; \"have fun\" at the close.

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by biloxi-indian]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Always up for a good debate, but the topics shouldn\'t be arguments we have previously had, and hopefully they won\'t be deleted like some I had today. As a matter of fact, you may wanna choose someone besides me cause I think I am gonna bow out for a while. I don\'t understand how your posts can be deleted without breaking any rules.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

whodi --

Hey man ... I really hope you will take part in this. I saw your post got edited in the other thread.

But, look ... I know how you feel. More than anyone else I have been on the receiving end of Joe\'s edits. Of course, I always thought I was right and he was wrong. Imagine that? LOL.

But, the truth is that Joe is trying to accomplish something here at B&G. He\'s trying to keep things to where there are no insults, jabs, or other remarks which may keep other potential members from posting.

Does Joe always edit all posts that need to be? No, I\'m sure some go unnoticed. But, JoeSam is a good guy and he\'s more fair than any other moderator that I\'ve ever encountered. And that goes for ANY Saints\' message board I\'ve ever been on.

Don\'t take it persoanally ... I can guarantee you that it\'s not personal with JoeSam. He\'s just trying to do his job and sometimes it might not seem fair.

Anyway, I hope you\'ll reconsider. I really enjoy your posts as much as anyone on here.

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by GumboBC]

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Don\'t you guys do that on a pretty regular basis already?

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I think it would be an interesting idea, Billy. It would depend on the rules, but I think a rule governed debate among the four of us could be very interesting.

Of course, I agree with LB on this one - we already do it.

My main reason for interest would be to cover a range of different topics. I also think that the group you picked would provide a range of opinions.

I guess, I\'d be in, but as I said, it would depend on the conditions.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Shadow, I thought you\'d have more faith in some of us. :(

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Your absolutley right...

By all means....debate away...

I deleted that last post...so it wouldn\'t sour anything...

I\'m not sure if it\'s a good idea...I feel like we are all kinda friends(who fight all the time)...and a structured debate, with rules and predetermined topics just sounds like sabatoge to me..and it would almost certainly make rifts between some of you guys...and alienate new members...


But..hey..what do I know...


Hasn\'t Billy tried this Idea before?...as I remember..it never even got off the ground before it was getting ugly...

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I would question how you came up with your group of people who are \"allowed\" to participate. Are these the people that you deem \"worthy?\" I suppose your ego is so huge that you believe that the rest of us would get entertainment by being allowed to read what the \"Fab 4\" have to say. You need to check that ego at the door.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

You guys never cease to amaze me. If you want to participate in the debate, why not just come out and say it, instead of saying something like this? This is why I delete so many posts or edit same. You guys can\'t say anything without attacking someone. What a shame!

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

First of all, Joe, I wasn\'t invited. That was pretty much my point. I thought this forum promoted everyone participating but I guess I was wrong. Second of all, I wouldn\'t care to participate, because I am not much into googling and such to get info to try to paint a picture that I am some sort of expert which I am not. I think the person that you should be scolding is the author of this thread who would even hint at the idea of having a forum where only four could talk, and the rest could listen. I think if you guys screw around long enough, you will have just what you want, Those four guys lingering here and the rest of us going somewhere else where the air is a little fresher.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Amen

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Sure - dunno how this would be much different than what we do now, but I\'m always up for a good debate.

I\'d nominate at least two other guys: Saintfan and BnB. However, it\'s up the the rest of the group.

Also, I would propose the following:

1. Other posters pick the topic, by suggestion and a vote or something like that.

2. No topic can be \"revisited\" more than once in a month, and let\'s try to limit it to like 3 or 4 times a year.

3. This should be a round robin type thing. If Billy starts, it then goes to Whodi, then Kool, then me, then back to Billy. This shouldn\'t be a free for all.

4. This should really be us sounding off on our opinions. That means saying, \"I think that the defense will get better b/c...\" and not \"you\'re crazy for thinking the defense will get better b/c...\" Yes, we should respond to one another, but no one wants to read bickering - there\'s already plenty of that on the board.

5. Debates/discussions last no more than a week.

6. Keeping other posters out of the mix is going to be difficult. If you\'re serious about making this an on-going thing, I would talk to Halo. See if it is OK with him and if he can set something up. Otherwise, the first debate will go like this: Billy posts, Whodi posts, 17 other members post, Kool tries to post, Billy posts, Whodi posts, Whodat, 5 other, Billy, 4 other, JoeSam, Whodi, JoeSam, locked.... LOL. :)

Those are my suggestions.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I suppose, having read through some stuff here, I\'m sympathetic to Shadow, LB, and Lyn\'s points. I\'m not sure what I think about the idea overall anymore. While I believe it would be fun (and interesting) for me, I\'m not sure we should really bore the other guys around here who are both interesting, smart, and well informed - and who would like to play along.

I think WhoDat\'s suggestions are quite acceptable, if this were to happen. At this point though, I may need to be convinced that it is a good idea for the board in general.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

WOW!! How to respond to some of this?

First, I was trying to think of something different for the board. And I thought this would be an interesting experiment. So many times some of the debates are really interesting but sooner or later it gets so far off topic that it becomes about something entirely different.

Now, I picked 3 other members and myself because of some of the past debates we have had. Again, I thought it would be interesting.

Maybe we could do this on a regular basis and rotate \"teams\". It doesn\'t have to be only the 4 of us who participate in this.

In any event, my motive for suggesting the \"closed\" debates is to try to form some kind of conclusion on some of the more interesting debates. Not that it\'s going to prove anything, but it might be interesting.

Oh, WhoDat -- I like your suggestions..

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

It might be interesting to have three teams - yea, nea, and \"neither of those two\". I always wondered why debates weren\'t structured that way?

For the record, Billy, I did (do) think it was an interesting idea. I just see how it might be taken the wrong way.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

As someone who mostly \'lurks\' might I suggest/komment...

Have someone propose your topic to debate.

Each group would then submit 1 opening argument per member.

After openning vollies are launced (grin) Each one could pose 1 rebuttle post.

I would limit the rounds, to only a couple. Perhaps the teams could even collaberate offline and provide a unified single response and perhaps, not get as heated.

I don\'t mind the banter. But, it should be inclusive enough so the teams could rotate to get as much involvement as possible.

I wouldn\'t want to actually be part of the debate, but well thought out arguments are nice to read.

just my .03
adjusted for inflation.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Interesting ideas SCSF!

Perhaps we could just get a list of people who would be interested and randomly generate teams each week? That sounds good to me.

Also, I like the idea of constraining the number of posts. That is a good idea.

Furthermore, it seems to me that people who wanted to put in their two cents (or three ;) ) could merely start a regular thread about the same topic in the general forum - thus, in a sense, no one would be excluded?

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Man. It\'s rare that I wade into something to support a Billy idea, but I\'ve tried holding my tongue on this all morning and I can\'t.

Layoff people. LB, Lynwood - I can understand where you\'re coming from, but I see nothing in Billy\'s original post to suggest he implied that the four people he listed knew more than any other members on the board. I don\'t believe that was his intent, and I think maybe your response reflects more on yourselves than on ole Billy Boy.

Look, it\'s long been decided that I know more than anyone else on this board. LMAO. :) Kidding. But seriously, I think Billy included the people that he did b/c, like he said, of our history. I dunno about Johnnie Granola (JKool), but the rest of us have been involved in colorful debates. That is also why I also suggested that we include Saintfan and BnB. I would pull in JoeSam, but somebody needs to moderate. :) The point is, these guys are always good for something. Saintfan makes me challenge my view. BnB makes me pee on myself laughing. Kool is the middleman who can synthesize opposing arguments like no one else. Billy, Whodi, and I - we\'re the instigators. :)

Billy was just suggesting an idea that I think would be fun, even if I\'m not involved. You watch \"Around the Horn\" on ESPN? PTI? Something like that is what I envision. I don\'t watch those shows b/c I think those guys know the most - it\'s entertainment. Did you used to listen to Buddy D? Anybody really think he\'s all that insightful? It\'s fun b/c he\'s a character. (was I should say :( )

In any case, I think you guys should cut Billy some slack. The guy wasn\'t trying to insult anyone. That\'s also not to say that you don\'t bring a lot to the board. There\'s just a history here. We have fun beating up on each other, and maybe it is egotistical, but I think that other people do enjoy watching us do it. It\'s entertaining if nothing else.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Perhaps too,

After the moderator declared the end of the debate, then they could put up a poll and let everyone vote as to who won. keep the poll open until the start of the next scrimmage er I mean debate.

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by SCSaintsFan]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

SCSF - great ideas. Thanks for the input.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I\'m sorry, but I don\'t see the merit in this suggestion. This isn\'t anything that the 4 of you (or 6, or whatever) cannot already accomplish with a normal thread. You do have a history of this sort of thing, right? So, what\'s the point?

If you don\'t want other members getting you off topic, ignore their posts.

I\'m a big fan of the deep debate that goes on around here from time to time, but most of those are conjured from spontaneity rather than from form or purpose.

But, hey, do what you want...

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Hey, I didn\'t mean to offend anyone. And I hope I don\'t offend anyone when I say this ....

Even if I don\'t participate in this, I still think it\'s a good idea. I know I would enjoy reading a \"closed\" debate that is kept stictly on the topic at hand. I would also enjoy \"voting\" on which team won.

ScottyRo made a point that we really didn\'t need a \"closed\" thread as we could accomplish the samething in a regular thread. I, however, think differently. Oh ... we could still post our opinions, but I think this would bring a different perspective.

Again, no matter who is on what team, I think it would be interesting.

And what\'s the harm in trying. If it fails, hey ... it fails.

How anyone could get offended is beyond me.

Hey, if I think I\'m right, I will argue till the death. Some others do the same. Some don\'t.

In any event, I\'mI just tossing ideas out there that would bring something different to the board.

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by GumboBC]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I think the around the horn idea would be good, but you need someone(impartial) to score the debate. You could actually get four participants, bring up the point to be argued and score each post by awarding points. You whittle it down every two rounds and then you have your winner. Again, the problem is having an impartial MOD as we know there are certain people with preexisting biases that would color the judgement. (ie Gumbo could never \"judge\" an AB debate)
There would also have to be rules set to keep certain people from using sophmoric insults and dragging debates into the mud. (Stuff like \"if you think Horn is as good as Brandon Stokley you should be drug out in the street and shot\".) Some people here just need to learn how to debate as opposed toslinging insults like teenagers. If that could happen, it could be fun.
But...it needs to be something a little different. Gumbo\'s initial proposal basically describes a message board where only a few people can participate, which is why a couple of people took exception. Score it like ATH and you might have something worthy of \"spectators\".

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

and what would be the purpose of this? If you want to glorify yourself why don\'t you write some articles for the TP. You think you four are the only ones that can debate? Come on Billy show a little respect to the rest of the gang here.

:band2.sml:

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Didn\'t see this coming. He started a debate about starting a debate. Congrats.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Way to jump in there Cheramie. Did you read any of the other posts to this thread? It\'s not all about Billy.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Why don\'t you four schedule a time in the chat room. That way, it\'s real time, and it would actually be a debate. If you feel as if you need a moderator, I\'d be willing, but the timing would need to be right.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Hasn\'t Billy tried this Idea before?...as I remember..it never even got off the ground before it was getting ugly...

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by shadowdrinker] [/quote:9f0f3d7ed9]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

This is a great idea for several reasons. In this post I will talk about the biggest
-This will keep the debate on the presented argument

Ex. The post on the Saints five most important players in \'05. I will show a few posts from that to demonstrate how far off topic we went.

Gumbo BC
Saintwhodi
Gumbo BC
Gumbo BC
Baronm Gumbo
Joe Sam
WhoDat
Danno

So there it is. A topic started at most important players, went to a two person argument that JoeSam was forced to stop, and ended up with Joe Horn.
An organized debate would allow us to talk about the issue or question presented and not everyhting else.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

You know what, the freedom is this board is that we can post about one thing and lead off into another. Usually a topic isn\'t just black and white espescially when you have plenty of opinions from plenty of posters. If you start a \"Private\" Debate on this forum you will alienate some of your users/posters. I love the freedom to put my two cents in anytime i want, and not to be excluded. If you eclude me i will follow the path of the Gator and look elsewhere for a more inclusive forum. Not that I hold a lot of weight, but I am a fan of this forum.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Also it is my understanding that this forum is for discussion and not debate.

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

If your sick and tired of reading the average person\'s \'\'stupid post\'\'...just say it guys..don\'t try to force feed your views on us...and give us no purpose other than voting on who\'s cooler..and who\'s smarter...

This is getting stupid real fast...

I think alot of guys, like Gatorman..who by the way, was a very good contributor to this board...will follow his lead..and you guys will be left with the only voices that matter to you..yourself...

anyone who is going to leave..please message me in pm so I can still find you guys...and go to the same board that ya\'ll go to...because..and you can call it what you will...I consider you guys my pals...and I like talking to ALL of you..

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

Ok.

This is getting out of hand. I say the idea is as good as dead. Certainly, I think it would be interesting to once a week read a thread on a single topic debated by a small group of people - NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE. However, if that generally changed the character of the board, I wouldn\'t be in favor of it. I like things how they are.

It was just a suggestion, there is no need for people to leave. I\'m sorry if I contributed in anyway to offending anyone.

Gator\'s upsettedness was about editing and moderating around here, not about the idea of a debate. I\'m sorry he\'s going, but that is his choice. On the other hand, I hope no one else would consider leaving just because there was a discussion of having a weekly debate. I value the discussion here, and that goes well beyond what a few guys have to say.

I too consider people here (more or less in some cases ;) ) my friends. I hope you will all stay.

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by JKool]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

sorry for that last post. I was writing it as the discussion was closed. If it\'s dead that\'s fine. i don\'t want anyone else to leave


[Edited on 28/3/2005 by TayTay]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

I can\'t speak for everyone..but I have recieved numerous Pm\'s ..and I can tell you that people are getting sick and tired of the favortism shown to a choice few ...and this \'\'idea\'\'was just a slap in the face..especially when Mods were actually in favor of it...

JOESAM, and HALO in particular has been overly aggressive..and have caused alot of people to just want to leave , rather than try to make it better...

I\'m not going to bail yet..and you can edit this post all you want..I\'m just telling you the TRUTH...

And I realize I will be labled as \'\'The Cancer\'\'...and I don\'t care... I hate to see this site go south so quickly..but..where\'s there\'s smoke , there\'s fire..and alot of people read this board several times during the day..we all feel like we\'re part of it..and if you want to cut the fat away...or whatever it is that\'s going on..it won\'t take long...


[Edited on 28/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

[Edited on 28/3/2005 by shadowdrinker]

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

You guys amaze me. You act like we\'re going to shut the board down and not allow any more posting except to the debate. Frankly, it doesn\'t matter to me if it happens or not. I really couldn\'t care less. If some of you are unhappy about the way the board is run, tell Halo. If need be I\'ll be glad to quit. I can always just read the posts that I like. If you\'re not happy here, it might be as much your fault as anyone elses.


AGAIN! IF YOU DON\'T LIKE A THREAD, DON\'T PARTICIPATE. START YOUR OWN. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. YOU GUYS ARE MAKING THIS MUCH WORSE THAN IT IS!

Idea/Challenge for B&G?
 

One more thing, as far as i\'m concerned the debate is off! If Halo wants it then he can say so, but i\'m locking this thread, I\'m sick of the whineing!