What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA?

saintfan · 08-31-2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Cruize

It's more likely the Republicans would have worked with her instead of obstructing EVERYTHING like they've done with President Obama. But, I'm probably giving them WAY too much credit. Their ONLY goal the past four years, as Boehner said on his first day in power, was to make President Obama a one term President. The country and the millions suffering in the process be damned. The only two possible things I see that would have been different under McCain would have been no Affordable Care Act and we already would have been at war with Iraq. Either way, the country is better off under the Democrats.

Making Obama a one-term president is an excellent goal in my opinion. For all his "reaching across the aisle" crap, did he? I'm not suggesting he did or would have managed much response, mostly because HIS ideal of America is twisted so far out of whack it's no surprise nobody but his own party worked with him, and in that case not all have, and for that matter his approval rating is bad and his base is drifting away.

At least Hillary commands some respect. At least we know where she came from. At least we know what her agenda is. I find it very difficult to respect Obama. I truly do. There's just too much mystery surrounding the man. I don't trust him. Neither do the Republicans, the Libertarians, the New Whigs, and a growing number of people in his own party. America simply does not want socialism. We don't want it any more than we wanted the metric system. They tried to shove THAT down our throats too but it didn't stick either.

SloMotion · 09-01-2012, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Cruize

It's more likely the Republicans would have worked with her instead of obstructing EVERYTHING like they've done with President Obama. But, I'm probably giving them WAY too much credit. Their ONLY goal the past four years, as Boehner said on his first day in power, was to make President Obama a one term President. The country and the millions suffering in the process be damned. The only two possible things I see that would have been different under McCain would have been no Affordable Care Act and we already would have been at war with Iraq. Either way, the country is better off under the Democrats.

... and Hillary would have more then likely worked with them and the country would probably be in a better place or on a better path right now. As for the rest of your post, I would ask you look at both sides as equally obstructionist instead of just focusing on the Republicans, ie Boehner (R) is doing nothing more then Pelosi (D) did as Speaker of the House and Harry Reid (D) won't even allow bills to be brought to the Senate floor for a vote ... it's tit-for-tat and both sides are guilty of it.

Instead of letting it divide us, we need to let it unify us as voters/citizens and we need to start moving some of these jokers on BOTH sides of the aisle OUT. Instead of practicing partisan politics and blindly following/voting a party line, voters/citizens need to take more time to examine individual issues and establish a position based upon personal knowledge and not just because a certain party hypothetically represents your best interests.

When it comes down to it, the two parties are actually very similiar in the way they run the country, IMO.

So I guess what I'm saying is, instead of looking at it like someone is a 'conservative' and you may be a 'liberal' or vice-versa, I'd like to see everyone be 'centralists' with a tendancy to lean left or right and base their decisions on what is best for yourself, your community and your country instead of being swayed by all the rhetoric and vitriol that has now become acceptable practice in political circles.

It's a big fence America, and there's plenty of room to straddle for all of us,

.

saintfan · 09-01-2012, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by SloMotion

... and Hillary would have more then likely worked with them and the country would probably be in a better place or on a better path right now. As for the rest of your post, I would ask you look at both sides as equally obstructionist instead of just focusing on the Republicans, ie Boehner (R) is doing nothing more then Pelosi (D) did as Speaker of the House and Harry Reid (D) won't even allow bills to be brought to the Senate floor for a vote ... it's tit-for-tat and both sides are guilty of it.

Instead of letting it divide us, we need to let it unify us as voters/citizens and we need to start moving some of these jokers on BOTH sides of the aisle OUT. Instead of practicing partisan politics and blindly following/voting a party line, voters/citizens need to take more time to examine individual issues and establish a position based upon personal knowledge and not just because a certain party hypothetically represents your best interests.

When it comes down to it, the two parties are actually very similiar in the way they run the country, IMO.

So I guess what I'm saying is, instead of looking at it like someone is a 'conservative' and you may be a 'liberal' or vice-versa, I'd like to see everyone be 'centralists' with a tendancy to lean left or right and base their decisions on what is best for yourself, your community and your country instead of being swayed by all the rhetoric and vitriol that has now become acceptable practice in political circles.

It's a big fence America, and there's plenty of room to straddle for all of us, .

You are dead on and I agree with you. It's difficult to maintain. I've begun preaching precisely what you're saying, which is to look beyond the marketing and to recognize that at the end of the day the problem cannot be corrected until American's do just as you say, which is to put our elected leaders - ALL OF THEM - on notice.

On the other hand, I am increasingly believing that American's are just too stupid, or maybe I'll say "ignorant" in an attempt to be nice, to get it done.

For example, my liberal friend I work with and talk so much about is very up to speed on his side of things. He will tell you (and he is a black man by the way) that he was surprised, amazed even, at the ignorance of the people who voted for Obama. He will tell you personal stories - about people he knows or met while voting during the last election - who showed up, for the first time ever, simply to cast their vote for a black man.

I suggest to the group that those people were voting for the wrong reasons - because they saw "black" and heard "free" and came out of the woodwork. Go ahead and bash me as a racist. I have thick skin. Even my liberal friend was a bit taken back by it. Those people are leaving the Obama camp in droves because they just can't believe a black man caved in. They honestly thought he would enter Washington and with a snap of his fingers make their lives better. They don't have a sense for WORKING for it. They want it handed to them, and they can't see that he's trying to do just that but that it cannot happen over night.

The thing is, their vote counts just as much as mine, which I don't mind saying is a FAR more educated vote. They aren't educated enough to understand how it works, and so how can they possibly participate in any resolution to the problem? From THEIR point of view, the only problem is that they don't have all the nice stuff the man who owns the company I work for has.

I try to be neutral Slomo. God as my witness I do. And when I talk about this stuff with people I tell them Conservatives and Liberals HAVE to come together. We HAVE to - those of us on both sides with a sense of how our system works HAVE to come together and overtake the growing number of people skewing our elections based on who is going to offer them the biggest handout. If politicians and their marketing is the problem, American's THEMSELVES are the ROOT of the problem. It is for this reason I think it'd be a damn good idea to make people pass a 7th grade level civics test before they're allowed to vote. Seriously.

On the other hand, I see Obama as a very dangerous threat to America because his ideals are very un-American. The stuff he and those who are with him preach is New Deal politics which was against the law until the progressives managed to get enough of themselves on the Supreme Court to rule that it wasn't. The whole thing was then and continues now to be a scam on America.

In THIS election, I want Obama gone. I want him gone so bad I'd vote for just about anybody else. I mean that. I don't trust his history because I don't even KNOW his history - and I can't know it because nobody else seems to know it - even his own family can't get the story straight. I honestly think he's hiding something about his past, and based on what we DO know about his past, whatever he's hiding would probably drop the collective jaw of American's. I think he knows this. Call me what you will. I've come at the whole Obama mystery with an open mind but found out I can't find out what I should be able to find out. And I read his wife's thesis. It IS racist.

As I said on this web site 4 years ago: Obama isn't the answer. Liberal policies, Progressive Policies, the policies of the Democrats - label them how you will, have been failing our country for a century. For anyone who takes the time to read the Federalist papers or the Constitution (and Americans who have not should be ashamed), it is beyond clear that our system of government has been and continues to be raped by corrupt politicians and ignorant citizens who are unwilling to do what our founders asked of us. We are to TAKE IT BACK from these people, by whatever means is necessary, and yet wet sit idly by and watch as America becomes a welfare state, and those welfare recipients are doing everything they can to turn this country into a Socialist state or, worse yet, a Communist one. And make no mistake. That IS their end goal and has been since the great depression.

I absolutely agree it is going to take a collective effort, where both sides are willing to give a little in an effort to gain back our Country, but are the sides willing? For that matter, are American's even capable? I am sad to say I'm not so sure anymore.

SloMotion · 09-02-2012, 07:13 AM

... I think a SloMotion/saintfan or a saintfan/SloMotion ticket for 2016 is what the country needs, eh? Probably more like a saintfan/SloMotion ticket because who am I to deprive Zoey of the opportunity to be First Lady?,

... but in all seriousness, Obama being President doesn't worry me half as much as Harry Reid being the Senate Majority Leader & Nancy Pelosi being the Speaker of the House does (did) and I think if the Republicans can gain control of the Senate while keeping the House, as they did in the Clinton years, things should start moving in the right direction, even with Obama in the White House.

Originally Posted by saintfan

I don't trust his history because I don't even KNOW his history

... this kind of sums it up for me, I spend a lot of effort trying to remain optimistic & neutral about the current administration, and that right there tells me something is amiss ... it shouldn't be that hard, IMO. If everything is on the up & up, then why all the secrecy?, why seal the college records?, why is it so hard to determine where this guy was born? ... it does create an impression of impropriety and give fuel to the Tea-Party'ers, Birthers, et... I understand the need to withhold some information for National Security, but it just seems with this guy that so much information readily disclosed by previous administrations is a case of National Security and that is suspicious to an American public that has, from day one (July 4th, 1776), and rightfully so, been untrusting of government. That same sentiment can be applied to Romney and his tax records too ... people want to hold the highest office in the country, but don't want to come 'clean', how do you trust either one?

Good read, saintfan, couldn't have put it better myself,

.

SloMotion · 09-02-2012, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Making Obama a one-term president is an excellent goal in my opinion. For all his "reaching across the aisle" crap, did he? I'm not suggesting he did or would have managed much response, mostly because HIS ideal of America is twisted so far out of whack it's no surprise nobody but his own party worked with him, and in that case not all have, and for that matter his approval rating is bad and his base is drifting away.

At least Hillary commands some respect. At least we know where she came from. At least we know what her agenda is. I find it very difficult to respect Obama. I truly do. There's just too much mystery surrounding the man. I don't trust him. Neither do the Republicans, the Libertarians, the New Whigs, and a growing number of people in his own party. America simply does not want socialism. We don't want it any more than we wanted the metric system. They tried to shove THAT down our throats too but it didn't stick either.

... for the record, I did support converting over to the metric system as a kid,

... just thought it would be so much easier to work with a system based on 'tens',

.

saintfan · 09-02-2012, 12:19 PM

I'm not sure you want me on that ticket Slomo. The thought of Zooey as the first lady is awfully attractive, but I'm too trigger happy. I would have dropped a nuke on the middle east a long time ago. I can share my cockroach theory sometime if you're interested. LOL

Did you know that Obama has what, at least two degrees, maybe three, and the man never wrote a thesis? Well, I take that back. He DID write one, but it was not required for his degree, and it doesn't matter because it vanished from the face of the earth. He doesn't have it. The school doesn't have it. The professor doesn't have it. Now, his wife's thesis was produced, and it's all about how black people are forced to give in to "the man" (the white man) and how they would be better off closing ranks and supporting black people.

As for the metric system, they tried to cram that down our throats in second grade. I wasn't interested.

08-31-2012, 09:47 PM	#11
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9,544 Blog Entries: 5	Re: What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA? Originally Posted by Cruize It's more likely the Republicans would have worked with her instead of obstructing EVERYTHING like they've done with President Obama. But, I'm probably giving them WAY too much credit. Their ONLY goal the past four years, as Boehner said on his first day in power, was to make President Obama a one term President. The country and the millions suffering in the process be damned. The only two possible things I see that would have been different under McCain would have been no Affordable Care Act and we already would have been at war with Iraq. Either way, the country is better off under the Democrats. Making Obama a one-term president is an excellent goal in my opinion. For all his "reaching across the aisle" crap, did he? I'm not suggesting he did or would have managed much response, mostly because HIS ideal of America is twisted so far out of whack it's no surprise nobody but his own party worked with him, and in that case not all have, and for that matter his approval rating is bad and his base is drifting away. At least Hillary commands some respect. At least we know where she came from. At least we know what her agenda is. I find it very difficult to respect Obama. I truly do. There's just too much mystery surrounding the man. I don't trust him. Neither do the Republicans, the Libertarians, the New Whigs, and a growing number of people in his own party. America simply does not want socialism. We don't want it any more than we wanted the metric system. They tried to shove THAT down our throats too but it didn't stick either. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! SloMotion likes this.
	Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel...

09-01-2012, 07:01 AM	#12
SloMotion Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: the Motor City Posts: 2,879 Blog Entries: 15	Re: What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA? Originally Posted by Cruize It's more likely the Republicans would have worked with her instead of obstructing EVERYTHING like they've done with President Obama. But, I'm probably giving them WAY too much credit. Their ONLY goal the past four years, as Boehner said on his first day in power, was to make President Obama a one term President. The country and the millions suffering in the process be damned. The only two possible things I see that would have been different under McCain would have been no Affordable Care Act and we already would have been at war with Iraq. Either way, the country is better off under the Democrats. ... and Hillary would have more then likely worked with them and the country would probably be in a better place or on a better path right now. As for the rest of your post, I would ask you look at both sides as equally obstructionist instead of just focusing on the Republicans, ie Boehner (R) is doing nothing more then Pelosi (D) did as Speaker of the House and Harry Reid (D) won't even allow bills to be brought to the Senate floor for a vote ... it's tit-for-tat and both sides are guilty of it. Instead of letting it divide us, we need to let it unify us as voters/citizens and we need to start moving some of these jokers on BOTH sides of the aisle OUT. Instead of practicing partisan politics and blindly following/voting a party line, voters/citizens need to take more time to examine individual issues and establish a position based upon personal knowledge and not just because a certain party hypothetically represents your best interests. When it comes down to it, the two parties are actually very similiar in the way they run the country, IMO. So I guess what I'm saying is, instead of looking at it like someone is a 'conservative' and you may be a 'liberal' or vice-versa, I'd like to see everyone be 'centralists' with a tendancy to lean left or right and base their decisions on what is best for yourself, your community and your country instead of being swayed by all the rhetoric and vitriol that has now become acceptable practice in political circles. It's a big fence America, and there's plenty of room to straddle for all of us, . Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	... this space intentionally left blank ...

09-01-2012, 12:05 PM	#13
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9,544 Blog Entries: 5	Re: What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA? Originally Posted by SloMotion ... and Hillary would have more then likely worked with them and the country would probably be in a better place or on a better path right now. As for the rest of your post, I would ask you look at both sides as equally obstructionist instead of just focusing on the Republicans, ie Boehner (R) is doing nothing more then Pelosi (D) did as Speaker of the House and Harry Reid (D) won't even allow bills to be brought to the Senate floor for a vote ... it's tit-for-tat and both sides are guilty of it. Instead of letting it divide us, we need to let it unify us as voters/citizens and we need to start moving some of these jokers on BOTH sides of the aisle OUT. Instead of practicing partisan politics and blindly following/voting a party line, voters/citizens need to take more time to examine individual issues and establish a position based upon personal knowledge and not just because a certain party hypothetically represents your best interests. When it comes down to it, the two parties are actually very similiar in the way they run the country, IMO. So I guess what I'm saying is, instead of looking at it like someone is a 'conservative' and you may be a 'liberal' or vice-versa, I'd like to see everyone be 'centralists' with a tendancy to lean left or right and base their decisions on what is best for yourself, your community and your country instead of being swayed by all the rhetoric and vitriol that has now become acceptable practice in political circles. It's a big fence America, and there's plenty of room to straddle for all of us, . You are dead on and I agree with you. It's difficult to maintain. I've begun preaching precisely what you're saying, which is to look beyond the marketing and to recognize that at the end of the day the problem cannot be corrected until American's do just as you say, which is to put our elected leaders - ALL OF THEM - on notice. On the other hand, I am increasingly believing that American's are just too stupid, or maybe I'll say "ignorant" in an attempt to be nice, to get it done. For example, my liberal friend I work with and talk so much about is very up to speed on his side of things. He will tell you (and he is a black man by the way) that he was surprised, amazed even, at the ignorance of the people who voted for Obama. He will tell you personal stories - about people he knows or met while voting during the last election - who showed up, for the first time ever, simply to cast their vote for a black man. I suggest to the group that those people were voting for the wrong reasons - because they saw "black" and heard "free" and came out of the woodwork. Go ahead and bash me as a racist. I have thick skin. Even my liberal friend was a bit taken back by it. Those people are leaving the Obama camp in droves because they just can't believe a black man caved in. They honestly thought he would enter Washington and with a snap of his fingers make their lives better. They don't have a sense for WORKING for it. They want it handed to them, and they can't see that he's trying to do just that but that it cannot happen over night. The thing is, their vote counts just as much as mine, which I don't mind saying is a FAR more educated vote. They aren't educated enough to understand how it works, and so how can they possibly participate in any resolution to the problem? From THEIR point of view, the only problem is that they don't have all the nice stuff the man who owns the company I work for has. I try to be neutral Slomo. God as my witness I do. And when I talk about this stuff with people I tell them Conservatives and Liberals HAVE to come together. We HAVE to - those of us on both sides with a sense of how our system works HAVE to come together and overtake the growing number of people skewing our elections based on who is going to offer them the biggest handout. If politicians and their marketing is the problem, American's THEMSELVES are the ROOT of the problem. It is for this reason I think it'd be a damn good idea to make people pass a 7th grade level civics test before they're allowed to vote. Seriously. On the other hand, I see Obama as a very dangerous threat to America because his ideals are very un-American. The stuff he and those who are with him preach is New Deal politics which was against the law until the progressives managed to get enough of themselves on the Supreme Court to rule that it wasn't. The whole thing was then and continues now to be a scam on America. In THIS election, I want Obama gone. I want him gone so bad I'd vote for just about anybody else. I mean that. I don't trust his history because I don't even KNOW his history - and I can't know it because nobody else seems to know it - even his own family can't get the story straight. I honestly think he's hiding something about his past, and based on what we DO know about his past, whatever he's hiding would probably drop the collective jaw of American's. I think he knows this. Call me what you will. I've come at the whole Obama mystery with an open mind but found out I can't find out what I should be able to find out. And I read his wife's thesis. It IS racist. As I said on this web site 4 years ago: Obama isn't the answer. Liberal policies, Progressive Policies, the policies of the Democrats - label them how you will, have been failing our country for a century. For anyone who takes the time to read the Federalist papers or the Constitution (and Americans who have not should be ashamed), it is beyond clear that our system of government has been and continues to be raped by corrupt politicians and ignorant citizens who are unwilling to do what our founders asked of us. We are to TAKE IT BACK from these people, by whatever means is necessary, and yet wet sit idly by and watch as America becomes a welfare state, and those welfare recipients are doing everything they can to turn this country into a Socialist state or, worse yet, a Communist one. And make no mistake. That IS their end goal and has been since the great depression. I absolutely agree it is going to take a collective effort, where both sides are willing to give a little in an effort to gain back our Country, but are the sides willing? For that matter, are American's even capable? I am sad to say I'm not so sure anymore. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! SloMotion likes this.
	Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel... Last edited by saintfan; 09-01-2012 at 12:10 PM..

09-02-2012, 07:13 AM	#14
SloMotion Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: the Motor City Posts: 2,879 Blog Entries: 15	Re: What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA? ... I think a SloMotion/saintfan or a saintfan/SloMotion ticket for 2016 is what the country needs, eh? Probably more like a saintfan/SloMotion ticket because who am I to deprive Zoey of the opportunity to be First Lady?, ... but in all seriousness, Obama being President doesn't worry me half as much as Harry Reid being the Senate Majority Leader & Nancy Pelosi being the Speaker of the House does (did) and I think if the Republicans can gain control of the Senate while keeping the House, as they did in the Clinton years, things should start moving in the right direction, even with Obama in the White House. Originally Posted by saintfan I don't trust his history because I don't even KNOW his history ... this kind of sums it up for me, I spend a lot of effort trying to remain optimistic & neutral about the current administration, and that right there tells me something is amiss ... it shouldn't be that hard, IMO. If everything is on the up & up, then why all the secrecy?, why seal the college records?, why is it so hard to determine where this guy was born? ... it does create an impression of impropriety and give fuel to the Tea-Party'ers, Birthers, et... I understand the need to withhold some information for National Security, but it just seems with this guy that so much information readily disclosed by previous administrations is a case of National Security and that is suspicious to an American public that has, from day one (July 4th, 1776), and rightfully so, been untrusting of government. That same sentiment can be applied to Romney and his tax records too ... people want to hold the highest office in the country, but don't want to come 'clean', how do you trust either one? Good read, saintfan, couldn't have put it better myself, . Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	... this space intentionally left blank ...

09-02-2012, 07:20 AM	#15
SloMotion Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: the Motor City Posts: 2,879 Blog Entries: 15	Re: What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA? Originally Posted by saintfan Making Obama a one-term president is an excellent goal in my opinion. For all his "reaching across the aisle" crap, did he? I'm not suggesting he did or would have managed much response, mostly because HIS ideal of America is twisted so far out of whack it's no surprise nobody but his own party worked with him, and in that case not all have, and for that matter his approval rating is bad and his base is drifting away. At least Hillary commands some respect. At least we know where she came from. At least we know what her agenda is. I find it very difficult to respect Obama. I truly do. There's just too much mystery surrounding the man. I don't trust him. Neither do the Republicans, the Libertarians, the New Whigs, and a growing number of people in his own party. America simply does not want socialism. We don't want it any more than we wanted the metric system. They tried to shove THAT down our throats too but it didn't stick either. ... for the record, I did support converting over to the metric system as a kid, ... just thought it would be so much easier to work with a system based on 'tens', . Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!

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09-02-2012, 12:19 PM	#16
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9,544 Blog Entries: 5	Re: What if Hillary Clinton were PofTUSA? I'm not sure you want me on that ticket Slomo. The thought of Zooey as the first lady is awfully attractive, but I'm too trigger happy. I would have dropped a nuke on the middle east a long time ago. I can share my cockroach theory sometime if you're interested. LOL Did you know that Obama has what, at least two degrees, maybe three, and the man never wrote a thesis? Well, I take that back. He DID write one, but it was not required for his degree, and it doesn't matter because it vanished from the face of the earth. He doesn't have it. The school doesn't have it. The professor doesn't have it. Now, his wife's thesis was produced, and it's all about how black people are forced to give in to "the man" (the white man) and how they would be better off closing ranks and supporting black people. As for the metric system, they tried to cram that down our throats in second grade. I wasn't interested. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel...

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