Dueling audios?

SmashMouth · 09-19-2012, 06:10 AM

President "redistribution"

Obama In 1998: "I Actually Believe In Redistribution" - YouTube

Romney's secretly recorded video at a fundraiser talking about the 47%.

Mitt Romney "There are 47% of people who feel entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing!" - YouTube

SmashMouth · 09-19-2012, 06:17 AM

Meet Joe Plumber/ Obama talks to Joe Plumber (FULL VIDEO) - YouTube

ScottF · 09-19-2012, 08:28 PM

Awesome. A 14 year old video, and a presidential candidate who paid 14% income tax saying he doesn't want the vote of those who paid zero: senior citizens, the disabled, and large families making less than $25K a year.

Danno · 09-19-2012, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Awesome. A 14 year old video, and a presidential candidate who paid 14% income tax saying he doesn't want the vote of those who paid zero: senior citizens, the disabled, and large families making less than $25K a year.

He was speaking of moochers, and if you don't think its a problem, then you're probably voting for Obama regardless. Yours is the vote he's not interested in.

saintfan · 09-19-2012, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Awesome. A 14 year old video, and a presidential candidate who paid 14% income tax saying he doesn't want the vote of those who paid zero: senior citizens, the disabled, and large families making less than $25K a year.

Can you be reasoned with sir? I ask with all sincerity. Is it possible for me to have a conversation with you about what it happening to our country? For me, Romney is merely someone who isn't Obama.

It's not about that. It's not about winning a debate with you. It's not about showing you up on a political forum on a football website.

Can you have an open discussion with me about what is truly happening? Can you hear facts about the man you are supporting politically presented to you from your political opposition?

I could give a **** if you're conservative or liberal or moderate or whatever. This goes for you too, Cruize. Can you?

We can take it off site. I'll give you guys my cell phone number. Let's talk. I am BEGGING you guys to drop the party rhetoric long enough to SEE what America is and what Obama has sold his soul to morph it into.

I AM BEGGING YOU. I am very serious and 100% sincere. Let me know.

ScottF · 09-20-2012, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Can you be reasoned with sir? I ask with all sincerity. Is it possible for me to have a conversation with you about what it happening to our country? For me, Romney is merely someone who isn't Obama.

It's not about that. It's not about winning a debate with you. It's not about showing you up on a political forum on a football website.

Can you have an open discussion with me about what is truly happening? Can you hear facts about the man you are supporting politically presented to you from your political opposition?

I could give a **** if you're conservative or liberal or moderate or whatever. This goes for you too, Cruize. Can you?

We can take it off site. I'll give you guys my cell phone number. Let's talk. I am BEGGING you guys to drop the party rhetoric long enough to SEE what America is and what Obama has sold his soul to morph it into.

I AM BEGGING YOU. I am very serious and 100% sincere. Let me know.

This is not party rhetoric. This is about a public figure who mispoke, and then instead of clarifying, reitereated his position. Republican senators and strategists have come out and said that this was a major error by Romney- you don't think it was?

I am not beating the party drum or drinking the koolaid. I am stating the facts that these statements by Romney were stratrgically stupid, and in no way compare to what Obama said 14 years ago. A liberal who believes in taxing the wealthy---not exactly news, is it? Not 14 years ago, not now.

Back to Romney- this is the second consecutive election that the Republican party has screwed up. The Palin choice imploded, and took a viable moderate candidate out of the running. Now you have Romney making comment after comment that alienates the poor and middle classes (who earn $200,000 to $250,000, right?).
If Rove was in charge he could get a monkey elected. As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure, Romney is still behind in the polls. Why is that? You are voting for him because he is not Obama, but guess what, MANY people are voting against Romney because he is Romney.

ScottF · 09-20-2012, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

He was speaking of moochers, and if you don't think its a problem, then you're probably voting for Obama regardless. Yours is the vote he's not interested in.

Then he should get his facts right- 46% to start, and the majority are seniors, disabled, or at poverty level. I am not for 'moochers' for either, unless I am trying to win and can't afford to alienate even more voters.

Oh, and I paid 33% last year, but if he's not courting my vote, I'm fine with that. Just furthers the point about off-base his comments were.

saintfan · 09-20-2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

This is not party rhetoric. This is about a public figure who mispoke, and then instead of clarifying, reitereated his position. Republican senators and strategists have come out and said that this was a major error by Romney- you don't think it was?

I'm trying to get you to understand it doesn't matter. The spirit of what the man said, as we all know, is that those who are intent on a welfare state aren't going to vote for him. It was an amazingly stupid thing for him to get caught saying, because, as we have seen, the other side will market it relentlessly. And people will point to it as some sort of justification. It most certainly IS party rhetoric. It is what we are all suffering from. Can you see it?

Originally Posted by ScottF

I am not beating the party drum or drinking the koolaid. I am stating the facts that these statements by Romney were stratrgically stupid, and in no way compare to what Obama said 14 years ago. A liberal who believes in taxing the wealthy---not exactly news, is it? Not 14 years ago, not now.

Redistribution of wealth is 100% against the law. One stupid thing that a politician says doesn't compare to some other thing some other politician says? That Obama's statement happened 14 years ago makes it irrelevant? Half this country is now caught up in a he said/he said truffle. It matters because it distracts from the truth. One man says half the country isn't going to vote for him because of their political agenda. He's right. So what? The other man is actively pursuing a fundamental change is our Government. But that doesn't matter?

Originally Posted by ScottF

Back to Romney- this is the second consecutive election that the Republican party has screwed up. The Palin choice imploded, and took a viable moderate candidate out of the running. Now you have Romney making comment after comment that alienates the poor and middle classes (who earn $200,000 to $250,000, right?).
If Rove was in charge he could get a monkey elected. As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure, Romney is still behind in the polls. Why is that? You are voting for him because he is not Obama, but guess what, MANY people are voting against Romney because he is Romney.

Romney's comments only alienate those who are in need of a reason to be alienated. Again, when we drop the party rhetoric we can clearly see what he intended by his statements. Ignorant as it is for him to have said it, this is ignorant mostly because of the opportunity he provides his opposition.

I wonder if you can elaborate on your statement "As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure". Can you tell me more about what you mean by that?

While you focus on what Romney said and point to that and say, "SEE! SEE!". I say, that doesn't matter. That's just what you're being distracted with. Tomorrow there will be something else. I say, leave the media and the party-exclusive to broadcast their rhetoric. Those of us who are truly paying attention have to look deeper...much deeper, to get to what's really going on. You don't appear to have done this - or maybe you have. Can you see it? What's really happening? Tell me what you see.

Cruize · 09-20-2012, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Can you be reasoned with sir? I ask with all sincerity. Is it possible for me to have a conversation with you about what it happening to our country? For me, Romney is merely someone who isn't Obama.

It's not about that. It's not about winning a debate with you. It's not about showing you up on a political forum on a football website.

Can you have an open discussion with me about what is truly happening? Can you hear facts about the man you are supporting politically presented to you from your political opposition?

I could give a **** if you're conservative or liberal or moderate or whatever. This goes for you too, Cruize. Can you?

We can take it off site. I'll give you guys my cell phone number. Let's talk. I am BEGGING you guys to drop the party rhetoric long enough to SEE what America is and what Obama has sold his soul to morph it into.

I AM BEGGING YOU. I am very serious and 100% sincere. Let me know.

I'll try even though it is repeating myself and almost certainly falling on deaf ears. In no particular order:

1. I see President Obama as the lesser of the two evils. Do I believe he and/or the Democrats will fix everything? No. Of course not. I believe they will screw it up less and error on the side of 99% of the population. Unlike the Republicans who are bought, paid for, and beholden to the 1%.
2. I absolutely believe the Democrats are much less likely to start a war in Iran or anywhere else for that matter. If a nation becomes a real threat to our country, I have no problem with turning them into one big sandbox. And the Democrats would certainly do that. The whole Republican rhetoric of the President apologizing or not being strong on defense is just wrong and uncalled for. Has any President ever been perfect in this volatile world especially in regards to the ever changing middle east? No. And they never will be.
3. The two unfunded wars by the last administration coupled with the Bush tax cuts are the two biggest causes to our current financial situation in my opinion. Certainly not the only reasons but Clinton left a surplus and those are the two major things that changed under Bush. All except getting out of Iraq are still on the books.
4. President Obama hasn't stopped the deficit spending. Part of it was necessary to prevent even worse conditions for millions of Americans. Saving GM and it's supply chains was necessary. Part of it was waste, like the free cell phones for example. Ridiculous. The current VP and Republicans voted for every deficit spending bill that came up under Bush. NOW it's wrong. NOW it's passing debt to our children and grandchildren. Hypocrite much? It was bad then and it's bad now.
5. The rhetoric by the Republicans and their STATED goals since President Obama took office has been horrible. They've obstructed everything he's proposed, even things they've agreed on in the past, and have had NO desire to move our nation forward. Truthfully, exactfully the opposite. Their only goal, as they STATED, was to make President Obama a one term President. The Republicans are at the very least equally responsible for where our nation has gone the past four years and in my opinion more to blame.
6. The President offered a 10 to 1 ratio of spending cuts to raised revenue and the Republicans refused. Firstly, it would have been a positive for the President. Secondly, any Republican who supported it would have faced the ire of Norquist and most assuredly faced the money of the Koch Brothers and Rove backing their opponent in their next Republican primary. The President has a jobs bill that would put over a million Americans back to work. The Republicans, who claim to be all about jobs, will not allow it to even come up for a vote. Horrible.
7. Spending has to be cut. The two biggest expenses on the books are entitlements and defense. Both need to be cut and reformed. The fraud cut out. The waste cut out. How and to what degree I'm not informed enough to make that judgement. I know it should be addressed in a non-partisan and non-political way. Those issues affect ALL Americans. One small one that jumps out at me is 99 weeks of unemployment. No offense to anyone or how hard it is out there, but that is too long. One of my pet peeves is a term that often gets politicized. "Under-employed." If you have a job, you are a productive member of our society. It may be less than before or not in your field of studies, but it's a job. And that job doesn't prevent you from taking a better job when it comes along.
8. Revenue has to be raised. It would be great if it could be looked at in shorter termed goals and see how things go. Just cutting programs for the less fortunate and our defense isn't going to get it done alone.
9. Our nation is facing some tough decisions. Neither side has shown a great desire to honestly and firmly address them. Both campaigns have been big on rhetoric and soundbites and completely lacking on substance. The Democrats haven't had to, which is amazing in our current climate, due to the complete failure of the Republican party to put anything of substance and specificity out there. The Republican campaign strategy of just running against the incumbent isn't working for them and it shouldn't. America deserves better. If Republicans lose, they only have THEMSELVES to blame.
10. Romney and Ryan are prime examples of exactly what our nation DOESN'T need in Washington. IN EITHER PARTY. Both will do and say ABSOLUTELY anything to achieve THEIR goals. Heck, most Republicans don't like Romney but they will vote for anybody over President Obama. Romney has had to run away from his greatest accomplishment as a governor. Romneycare is working great for the citizens in his state.
11. The system is what needs to be fixed. It not only allows corruption, greed, and partisanship, it ENCOURAGES it. All lobbyists should be removed from Washington. Campaign finance reform is a must. Allowing our supposed representatives to be influenced and their subsequent legislation to be bought and paid for is THE major problem in our nation.
12. The Affordable Care Act is a step in the right direction for our nation and it's citizens. Is it perfect? Of course not. But, it does FAR more good than bad for the overwhelmiing majority of Americans. It's already bringing down premiums and health care costs. I can speak to one of those. The key is it's a work in PROGRESS. It will be tweaked and made better over time if it's allowed to stay.
13. Trickle down economics does not work. Unless you're in the 1% and then it's the greatest thing ever devised. That is the staple of Republican economic policy.

That's a starter for you. That's truly how I see things.

ScottF · 09-20-2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

I'm trying to get you to understand it doesn't matter. The spirit of what the man said, as we all know, is that those who are intent on a welfare state aren't going to vote for him. It was an amazingly stupid thing for him to get caught saying, because, as we have seen, the other side will market it relentlessly. And people will point to it as some sort of justification. It most certainly IS party rhetoric. It is what we are all suffering from. Can you see it?

What exactly is the 'rhetoric'? That word implies an exagerration or inaccuracy. This statement is the most representative of the way Romney thinks. And why is it 'party' rhetoric? Scott Brown, Trump, Rove, Saxby Chambliss, Greg Strimple have all said he should not made the statement. Is this rhetoric also?

Redistribution of wealth is 100% against the law. One stupid thing that a politician says doesn't compare to some other thing some other politician says? That Obama's statement happened 14 years ago makes it irrelevant? Half this country is now caught up in a he said/he said truffle. It matters because it distracts from the truth. One man says half the country isn't going to vote for him because of their political agenda. He's right. So what? The other man is actively pursuing a fundamental change is our Government. But that doesn't matter?

Our current tax system is a redistribution of wealth, as are luxury taxes and VAT's. The rich are taxed more; it's that simple. Comments from 14 years ago don't constitute an active pursuit.

Romney's comments only alienate those who are in need of a reason to be alienated. ???? Again, when we drop the party rhetoric we can clearly see what he intended by his statements. Ignorant as it is for him to have said it, this is ignorant mostly because of the opportunity he provides his opposition.

I wonder if you can elaborate on your statement "As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure". Can you tell me more about what you mean by that?

[b] Pretty simple: other than Healthcare, Obama has down little that was on his agenda. He has spent too much time and effort on initiatives that don't relate directly to the economy. Maybe he thought his job creation plan would be more successful, or maybe the hole he started in was too deep. Either way, the results are not there.

While you focus on what Romney said and point to that and say, "SEE! SEE!". I say, that doesn't matter. That's just what you're being distracted with. Tomorrow there will be something else. I say, leave the media and the party-exclusive to broadcast their rhetoric. Those of us who are truly paying attention have to look deeper...much deeper, to get to what's really going on. You don't appear to have done this - or maybe you have. Can you see it? What's really happening? Tell me what you see.

I am not distracted at all, because you are right, he will say something equally alienating tomorrow. He continues to mispeak about what he perceives is the middle class. How many more of these statements does he need to make until everyone sees how out of touch he is? According to the polls, not too many. New poll shows Obama leads Romney in swing states | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

09-19-2012, 08:28 PM	#3
ScottF 40 year fan Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,341	Re: Dueling audios? Awesome. A 14 year old video, and a presidential candidate who paid 14% income tax saying he doesn't want the vote of those who paid zero: senior citizens, the disabled, and large families making less than $25K a year. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! Cruize likes this.

09-19-2012, 09:39 PM	#4
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort Alabama Posts: 11,010	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by ScottF Awesome. A 14 year old video, and a presidential candidate who paid 14% income tax saying he doesn't want the vote of those who paid zero: senior citizens, the disabled, and large families making less than $25K a year. He was speaking of moochers, and if you don't think its a problem, then you're probably voting for Obama regardless. Yours is the vote he's not interested in. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!

09-19-2012, 09:57 PM	#5
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by ScottF Awesome. A 14 year old video, and a presidential candidate who paid 14% income tax saying he doesn't want the vote of those who paid zero: senior citizens, the disabled, and large families making less than $25K a year. Can you be reasoned with sir? I ask with all sincerity. Is it possible for me to have a conversation with you about what it happening to our country? For me, Romney is merely someone who isn't Obama. It's not about that. It's not about winning a debate with you. It's not about showing you up on a political forum on a football website. Can you have an open discussion with me about what is truly happening? Can you hear facts about the man you are supporting politically presented to you from your political opposition? I could give a **** if you're conservative or liberal or moderate or whatever. This goes for you too, Cruize. Can you? We can take it off site. I'll give you guys my cell phone number. Let's talk. I am BEGGING you guys to drop the party rhetoric long enough to SEE what America is and what Obama has sold his soul to morph it into. I AM BEGGING YOU. I am very serious and 100% sincere. Let me know. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel...

09-20-2012, 09:19 AM	#6
ScottF 40 year fan Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,341	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by saintfan Can you be reasoned with sir? I ask with all sincerity. Is it possible for me to have a conversation with you about what it happening to our country? For me, Romney is merely someone who isn't Obama. It's not about that. It's not about winning a debate with you. It's not about showing you up on a political forum on a football website. Can you have an open discussion with me about what is truly happening? Can you hear facts about the man you are supporting politically presented to you from your political opposition? I could give a **** if you're conservative or liberal or moderate or whatever. This goes for you too, Cruize. Can you? We can take it off site. I'll give you guys my cell phone number. Let's talk. I am BEGGING you guys to drop the party rhetoric long enough to SEE what America is and what Obama has sold his soul to morph it into. I AM BEGGING YOU. I am very serious and 100% sincere. Let me know. This is not party rhetoric. This is about a public figure who mispoke, and then instead of clarifying, reitereated his position. Republican senators and strategists have come out and said that this was a major error by Romney- you don't think it was? I am not beating the party drum or drinking the koolaid. I am stating the facts that these statements by Romney were stratrgically stupid, and in no way compare to what Obama said 14 years ago. A liberal who believes in taxing the wealthy---not exactly news, is it? Not 14 years ago, not now. Back to Romney- this is the second consecutive election that the Republican party has screwed up. The Palin choice imploded, and took a viable moderate candidate out of the running. Now you have Romney making comment after comment that alienates the poor and middle classes (who earn $200,000 to $250,000, right?). If Rove was in charge he could get a monkey elected. As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure, Romney is still behind in the polls. Why is that? You are voting for him because he is not Obama, but guess what, MANY people are voting against Romney because he is Romney. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! Cruize likes this.
	James Harrison: "If that man was on fire and I had to piss on him to put it out, I wouldn't do it."

09-20-2012, 09:23 AM	#7
ScottF 40 year fan Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,341	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by Danno He was speaking of moochers, and if you don't think its a problem, then you're probably voting for Obama regardless. Yours is the vote he's not interested in. Then he should get his facts right- 46% to start, and the majority are seniors, disabled, or at poverty level. I am not for 'moochers' for either, unless I am trying to win and can't afford to alienate even more voters. Oh, and I paid 33% last year, but if he's not courting my vote, I'm fine with that. Just furthers the point about off-base his comments were. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! Cruize likes this.

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09-20-2012, 12:01 PM	#8
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by ScottF This is not party rhetoric. This is about a public figure who mispoke, and then instead of clarifying, reitereated his position. Republican senators and strategists have come out and said that this was a major error by Romney- you don't think it was? I'm trying to get you to understand it doesn't matter. The spirit of what the man said, as we all know, is that those who are intent on a welfare state aren't going to vote for him. It was an amazingly stupid thing for him to get caught saying, because, as we have seen, the other side will market it relentlessly. And people will point to it as some sort of justification. It most certainly IS party rhetoric. It is what we are all suffering from. Can you see it? Originally Posted by ScottF I am not beating the party drum or drinking the koolaid. I am stating the facts that these statements by Romney were stratrgically stupid, and in no way compare to what Obama said 14 years ago. A liberal who believes in taxing the wealthy---not exactly news, is it? Not 14 years ago, not now. Redistribution of wealth is 100% against the law. One stupid thing that a politician says doesn't compare to some other thing some other politician says? That Obama's statement happened 14 years ago makes it irrelevant? Half this country is now caught up in a he said/he said truffle. It matters because it distracts from the truth. One man says half the country isn't going to vote for him because of their political agenda. He's right. So what? The other man is actively pursuing a fundamental change is our Government. But that doesn't matter? Originally Posted by ScottF Back to Romney- this is the second consecutive election that the Republican party has screwed up. The Palin choice imploded, and took a viable moderate candidate out of the running. Now you have Romney making comment after comment that alienates the poor and middle classes (who earn $200,000 to $250,000, right?). If Rove was in charge he could get a monkey elected. As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure, Romney is still behind in the polls. Why is that? You are voting for him because he is not Obama, but guess what, MANY people are voting against Romney because he is Romney. Romney's comments only alienate those who are in need of a reason to be alienated. Again, when we drop the party rhetoric we can clearly see what he intended by his statements. Ignorant as it is for him to have said it, this is ignorant mostly because of the opportunity he provides his opposition. I wonder if you can elaborate on your statement "As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure". Can you tell me more about what you mean by that? While you focus on what Romney said and point to that and say, "SEE! SEE!". I say, that doesn't matter. That's just what you're being distracted with. Tomorrow there will be something else. I say, leave the media and the party-exclusive to broadcast their rhetoric. Those of us who are truly paying attention have to look deeper...much deeper, to get to what's really going on. You don't appear to have done this - or maybe you have. Can you see it? What's really happening? Tell me what you see. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel...

09-20-2012, 12:03 PM	#9
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,104	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by saintfan Can you be reasoned with sir? I ask with all sincerity. Is it possible for me to have a conversation with you about what it happening to our country? For me, Romney is merely someone who isn't Obama. It's not about that. It's not about winning a debate with you. It's not about showing you up on a political forum on a football website. Can you have an open discussion with me about what is truly happening? Can you hear facts about the man you are supporting politically presented to you from your political opposition? I could give a **** if you're conservative or liberal or moderate or whatever. This goes for you too, Cruize. Can you? We can take it off site. I'll give you guys my cell phone number. Let's talk. I am BEGGING you guys to drop the party rhetoric long enough to SEE what America is and what Obama has sold his soul to morph it into. I AM BEGGING YOU. I am very serious and 100% sincere. Let me know. I'll try even though it is repeating myself and almost certainly falling on deaf ears. In no particular order: 1. I see President Obama as the lesser of the two evils. Do I believe he and/or the Democrats will fix everything? No. Of course not. I believe they will screw it up less and error on the side of 99% of the population. Unlike the Republicans who are bought, paid for, and beholden to the 1%. 2. I absolutely believe the Democrats are much less likely to start a war in Iran or anywhere else for that matter. If a nation becomes a real threat to our country, I have no problem with turning them into one big sandbox. And the Democrats would certainly do that. The whole Republican rhetoric of the President apologizing or not being strong on defense is just wrong and uncalled for. Has any President ever been perfect in this volatile world especially in regards to the ever changing middle east? No. And they never will be. 3. The two unfunded wars by the last administration coupled with the Bush tax cuts are the two biggest causes to our current financial situation in my opinion. Certainly not the only reasons but Clinton left a surplus and those are the two major things that changed under Bush. All except getting out of Iraq are still on the books. 4. President Obama hasn't stopped the deficit spending. Part of it was necessary to prevent even worse conditions for millions of Americans. Saving GM and it's supply chains was necessary. Part of it was waste, like the free cell phones for example. Ridiculous. The current VP and Republicans voted for every deficit spending bill that came up under Bush. NOW it's wrong. NOW it's passing debt to our children and grandchildren. Hypocrite much? It was bad then and it's bad now. 5. The rhetoric by the Republicans and their STATED goals since President Obama took office has been horrible. They've obstructed everything he's proposed, even things they've agreed on in the past, and have had NO desire to move our nation forward. Truthfully, exactfully the opposite. Their only goal, as they STATED, was to make President Obama a one term President. The Republicans are at the very least equally responsible for where our nation has gone the past four years and in my opinion more to blame. 6. The President offered a 10 to 1 ratio of spending cuts to raised revenue and the Republicans refused. Firstly, it would have been a positive for the President. Secondly, any Republican who supported it would have faced the ire of Norquist and most assuredly faced the money of the Koch Brothers and Rove backing their opponent in their next Republican primary. The President has a jobs bill that would put over a million Americans back to work. The Republicans, who claim to be all about jobs, will not allow it to even come up for a vote. Horrible. 7. Spending has to be cut. The two biggest expenses on the books are entitlements and defense. Both need to be cut and reformed. The fraud cut out. The waste cut out. How and to what degree I'm not informed enough to make that judgement. I know it should be addressed in a non-partisan and non-political way. Those issues affect ALL Americans. One small one that jumps out at me is 99 weeks of unemployment. No offense to anyone or how hard it is out there, but that is too long. One of my pet peeves is a term that often gets politicized. "Under-employed." If you have a job, you are a productive member of our society. It may be less than before or not in your field of studies, but it's a job. And that job doesn't prevent you from taking a better job when it comes along. 8. Revenue has to be raised. It would be great if it could be looked at in shorter termed goals and see how things go. Just cutting programs for the less fortunate and our defense isn't going to get it done alone. 9. Our nation is facing some tough decisions. Neither side has shown a great desire to honestly and firmly address them. Both campaigns have been big on rhetoric and soundbites and completely lacking on substance. The Democrats haven't had to, which is amazing in our current climate, due to the complete failure of the Republican party to put anything of substance and specificity out there. The Republican campaign strategy of just running against the incumbent isn't working for them and it shouldn't. America deserves better. If Republicans lose, they only have THEMSELVES to blame. 10. Romney and Ryan are prime examples of exactly what our nation DOESN'T need in Washington. IN EITHER PARTY. Both will do and say ABSOLUTELY anything to achieve THEIR goals. Heck, most Republicans don't like Romney but they will vote for anybody over President Obama. Romney has had to run away from his greatest accomplishment as a governor. Romneycare is working great for the citizens in his state. 11. The system is what needs to be fixed. It not only allows corruption, greed, and partisanship, it ENCOURAGES it. All lobbyists should be removed from Washington. Campaign finance reform is a must. Allowing our supposed representatives to be influenced and their subsequent legislation to be bought and paid for is THE major problem in our nation. 12. The Affordable Care Act is a step in the right direction for our nation and it's citizens. Is it perfect? Of course not. But, it does FAR more good than bad for the overwhelmiing majority of Americans. It's already bringing down premiums and health care costs. I can speak to one of those. The key is it's a work in PROGRESS. It will be tweaked and made better over time if it's allowed to stay. 13. Trickle down economics does not work. Unless you're in the 1% and then it's the greatest thing ever devised. That is the staple of Republican economic policy. That's a starter for you. That's truly how I see things. 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Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,104

09-20-2012, 02:39 PM	#10
ScottF 40 year fan Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,341	Re: Dueling audios? Originally Posted by saintfan I'm trying to get you to understand it doesn't matter. The spirit of what the man said, as we all know, is that those who are intent on a welfare state aren't going to vote for him. It was an amazingly stupid thing for him to get caught saying, because, as we have seen, the other side will market it relentlessly. And people will point to it as some sort of justification. It most certainly IS party rhetoric. It is what we are all suffering from. Can you see it? What exactly is the 'rhetoric'? That word implies an exagerration or inaccuracy. This statement is the most representative of the way Romney thinks. And why is it 'party' rhetoric? Scott Brown, Trump, Rove, Saxby Chambliss, Greg Strimple have all said he should not made the statement. Is this rhetoric also? Redistribution of wealth is 100% against the law. One stupid thing that a politician says doesn't compare to some other thing some other politician says? That Obama's statement happened 14 years ago makes it irrelevant? Half this country is now caught up in a he said/he said truffle. It matters because it distracts from the truth. One man says half the country isn't going to vote for him because of their political agenda. He's right. So what? The other man is actively pursuing a fundamental change is our Government. But that doesn't matter? Our current tax system is a redistribution of wealth, as are luxury taxes and VAT's. The rich are taxed more; it's that simple. Comments from 14 years ago don't constitute an active pursuit. Romney's comments only alienate those who are in need of a reason to be alienated. ???? Again, when we drop the party rhetoric we can clearly see what he intended by his statements. Ignorant as it is for him to have said it, this is ignorant mostly because of the opportunity he provides his opposition. I wonder if you can elaborate on your statement "As bad as the results look for Obama's tenure". Can you tell me more about what you mean by that? [b] Pretty simple: other than Healthcare, Obama has down little that was on his agenda. He has spent too much time and effort on initiatives that don't relate directly to the economy. Maybe he thought his job creation plan would be more successful, or maybe the hole he started in was too deep. Either way, the results are not there. While you focus on what Romney said and point to that and say, "SEE! SEE!". I say, that doesn't matter. That's just what you're being distracted with. Tomorrow there will be something else. I say, leave the media and the party-exclusive to broadcast their rhetoric. Those of us who are truly paying attention have to look deeper...much deeper, to get to what's really going on. You don't appear to have done this - or maybe you have. Can you see it? What's really happening? Tell me what you see. I am not distracted at all, because you are right, he will say something equally alienating tomorrow. He continues to mispeak about what he perceives is the middle class. How many more of these statements does he need to make until everyone sees how out of touch he is? According to the polls, not too many. New poll shows Obama leads Romney in swing states \| The Ticket - Yahoo! News Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!

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