For my Liberal brethren.

dam1953 · 11-08-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Crusader

Reagan might have been a good leader and by all accounts seems t have been a good man but his economic politics were an utter disaster that put your country in a really though spot.

There are however great cultural differences in europe so saying the european model isn't really correct. You can't for example compare Germany and Greece since the culture is totally different. It would kinda be like comparing USA and Japan. The (Lutheran) countries in northern europe have a culture that puts a premier on hard work, saving money, not spending if you don't have etc. Thats why northern europe has remained pretty untouched by the economical depression in comparison to the south. Spain is suffering from the equivalent of the Subprime loans in florida makin their whole property market colapse. Greece is just the perfect ****storm, low taxes and little work combined with crazy benefits, rampant corruption and a huge dependancy on foregin money trough torism has set that country up to fail miserably. I personally think they should have been kicked ou of the european union and allowed to go bankrupt.

I'm not sure that the US is not in a very similar situation. The northeast and west coasts have completely different work ethics, morals, etc. than the midwest and southeast. I will be curious to see the impact of the mass exodus of Californians to Texas. California will ultimately become even more liberal as big chucks of its labor pool migrate to Texas. The bigger question is whether California immigrants will do to Texas what they did to Montana.

In the US the financial problems appear to track states that have a heavily unionized labor force. Those that do are struggling financially. Those that don't appear to be surviving….for now.

foreverfan · 11-08-2012, 11:28 AM

Idiots who voted for Obama - YouTube

foreverfan · 11-08-2012, 11:41 AM

Media Malpractice How Obama Got Elected Pt 1 - YouTube

Media Malpractice How Obama Got Elected Pt 2 - YouTube

Media Malpractice How Obama Got Elected Pt 3 - YouTube

TheOak · 11-08-2012, 12:24 PM

Ive lived in 5 countries I am familiar with the discrepancies. The people in America that want that model however are not and to say that present Government is competent enough to navigate the minefield is a farce.

I suppose with the exception of a few wording changes the US is setting it self up nicely for a perfect storm. We are a combination of Spain and Greece after you change "foreign money and tourism" to oil. The exact direction and path we are perusing. You are making my point for me, I listed example countries for a reason and didn't just say Europa. There are cultural differences in the United States... Texas and California are drastically different.

Do you honestly want to compare Reagan's economy to that of Obamas? Raegans downfall was maintaining electability, and the fact that it is harder to take away than to not give. If not for all of the socialism projects that were in place before he was elected Raeganomics would have succeeded.

Beastmode · 11-08-2012, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Crusader

I personally think they should have been kicked ou of the european union and allowed to go bankrupt.

Many europeans, especially Germans (the ones I have spoke to) are downright livid with Greece. As the saying goes, here in the US we live to work but in europe they work to live. Nothing wrong with those philosophies, each have their own pros and cons. The problem however is when countries want to live and not work and rely on others to support it.

TheOak · 11-08-2012, 01:07 PM

Thus is born the two philosophies.

"Living" is something we can opt out of. Someone does have to do the work however.. One philosophy gets their hands dirty while the other wants someone to do it for them.

If I want my neighbor to reap what I sew Ill go knock on his door.

We also need to push for the end of legislating morality.
Of course along with generosity.

Crusader · 11-08-2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by dam1953

In the US the financial problems appear to track states that have a heavily unionized labor force. Those that do are struggling financially. Those that don't appear to be surviving….for now.

In europe its divided between the hardworking lutheran nations in the north and west and the catholic nations in the south where the big economical problems are. Then we have eastern europe where the cultural significance of religon isn't so big from an economcal standpoint but where countries are still feeling the effects of the Sovietunions opression.

ScottF · 11-08-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by x626xBlack

Due to the fact that the answers to both of your initial questions are no... Your assumptions lead me to believe you are the typical Liberal or Conservative (both listed), where you only know black and white. You have been sucked into the us vs them mentality that present day politicians thrive off of.

Does this statement make sense to you? You say you cannot determine if I am a liberal or conservative, but say I only see things black and white, am steadfastly one or the other?

My post is about partisanship, how the minority needs to work with the majority and solve these economic problems. And yes, as the minority, they have to make more concessions. Fact of life.
McConnell, Cantor, and the mouthpiece Limbaugh have openly stated the their agenda was to see Obama fail. Great, instead America is failing, and their alienation of voters just gave Obama 4 more years.

saintfan · 11-08-2012, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by ScottF

Does this statement make sense to you? You say you cannot determine if I am a liberal or conservative, but say I only see things black and white, am steadfastly one or the other?

My post is about partisanship, how the minority needs to work with the majority and solve these economic problems. And yes, as the minority, they have to make more concessions. Fact of life.
McConnell, Cantor, and the mouthpiece Limbaugh have openly stated the their agenda was to see Obama fail. Great, instead America is failing, and their alienation of voters just gave Obama 4 more years.

Obama must fail to keep America from failing. That's what you miss. Unchecked, the policies he will implement - policies that have failed all over the world - will be our ultimate demise.

No compromise. Not even a little. Head right over the cliff. Let it happen. Let the whole thing bottom out. If that's what it takes to stop the liberals and their attack on the Constitution, then so be it. You voted for it. Swim in it now. We could have elected a man with a history of economic understanding and a record of bi-partisanship. Instead, you elected the most polarizing American politician since, well, maybe ever.

Suffer it. It's what you asked for.

SloMotion · 11-09-2012, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by ScottF

My post is about partisanship, how the minority needs to work with the majority and solve these economic problems. And yes, as the minority, they have to make more concessions. Fact of life.
McConnell, Cantor, and the mouthpiece Limbaugh have openly stated the their agenda was to see Obama fail. Great, instead America is failing, and their alienation of voters just gave Obama 4 more years.

Let me ask you this on the partisanship issue ... don't you think it's time for the Left to move a bit more to the center though? Looking back at the recent leadership & candidates from the Right, Bush-McCain-Romney are so moderate that it makes your average conservative puke and even spawned the tea-party movement. Do you see what I'm getting at? To me it seems like the more the Republicans move their platform to the middle in an attempt to compromise by fielding moderate candidates, the more Democrats move to the left. It's almost like the Republicans are the new Democrats and the Democrats are becoming the fringe Left.

I agree as the minority party you do have to eat a certain amount of humble pie, but I honestly think the Republicans have compromised their platform and principles more than enough and are now holding onto one or two key issues as sort of their "Alamo" because the Democrats have not responded enough in kind.

I was disappointed in the 'one-term-president' rhetoric from guys like Sen McConnell ... Limbaugh's out for ratings similiar to Maddow so I don't put too much stock in what they say and I would disagree that either of them are mouthpieces for their respective sides ... but I think McConnell's stance is a byproduct of the Right feeling they have compromised enough and they cannot, in good faith and party principle, move any further away from their core values and still be considered conservative, albeit moderate, and I'm inclined to agree.

While the Democrats did win the election, there was a huge shift to the right by the entire country and my hope is that the Left can somehow see and reflect that in their party line without comprimising their core beliefs. There's still a little time and a little wiggle room to get it done, but not much, :sweating:.

Hey, on a lighter note ... during the NHL lockout they've been replaying some of the old RedWing games on FoxSportsDetroit. Last night was Game 2 of the '97 Stanley Cup Finals ... it was kinda' cool seeing Hextall/Vernon in net, Rod Brind'Amour, Brendan Shanahan (before he was an NHL VP), John LeClair, Yzerman ... I thought about you,

... Malty scored the game winner at 2:36 in the second period, in case you don't remember,

.

11-08-2012, 11:27 AM	#11
dam1953 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 214	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Originally Posted by Crusader Reagan might have been a good leader and by all accounts seems t have been a good man but his economic politics were an utter disaster that put your country in a really though spot. There are however great cultural differences in europe so saying the european model isn't really correct. You can't for example compare Germany and Greece since the culture is totally different. It would kinda be like comparing USA and Japan. The (Lutheran) countries in northern europe have a culture that puts a premier on hard work, saving money, not spending if you don't have etc. Thats why northern europe has remained pretty untouched by the economical depression in comparison to the south. Spain is suffering from the equivalent of the Subprime loans in florida makin their whole property market colapse. Greece is just the perfect ****storm, low taxes and little work combined with crazy benefits, rampant corruption and a huge dependancy on foregin money trough torism has set that country up to fail miserably. I personally think they should have been kicked ou of the european union and allowed to go bankrupt. I'm not sure that the US is not in a very similar situation. The northeast and west coasts have completely different work ethics, morals, etc. than the midwest and southeast. I will be curious to see the impact of the mass exodus of Californians to Texas. California will ultimately become even more liberal as big chucks of its labor pool migrate to Texas. The bigger question is whether California immigrants will do to Texas what they did to Montana. In the US the financial problems appear to track states that have a heavily unionized labor force. Those that do are struggling financially. Those that don't appear to be surviving….for now. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!

11-08-2012, 12:24 PM	#14
TheOak Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 7,631	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Ive lived in 5 countries I am familiar with the discrepancies. The people in America that want that model however are not and to say that present Government is competent enough to navigate the minefield is a farce. I suppose with the exception of a few wording changes the US is setting it self up nicely for a perfect storm. We are a combination of Spain and Greece after you change "foreign money and tourism" to oil. The exact direction and path we are perusing. You are making my point for me, I listed example countries for a reason and didn't just say Europa. There are cultural differences in the United States... Texas and California are drastically different. Do you honestly want to compare Reagan's economy to that of Obamas? Raegans downfall was maintaining electability, and the fact that it is harder to take away than to not give. If not for all of the socialism projects that were in place before he was elected Raeganomics would have succeeded. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	You should expect some in my replies.

11-08-2012, 12:58 PM	#15
Beastmode 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,938	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Originally Posted by Crusader I personally think they should have been kicked ou of the european union and allowed to go bankrupt. Many europeans, especially Germans (the ones I have spoke to) are downright livid with Greece. As the saying goes, here in the US we live to work but in europe they work to live. Nothing wrong with those philosophies, each have their own pros and cons. The problem however is when countries want to live and not work and rely on others to support it. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
Beastmode 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,938

11-08-2012, 01:07 PM	#16
TheOak Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 7,631	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Thus is born the two philosophies. "Living" is something we can opt out of. Someone does have to do the work however.. One philosophy gets their hands dirty while the other wants someone to do it for them. If I want my neighbor to reap what I sew Ill go knock on his door. We also need to push for the end of legislating morality. Of course along with generosity. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! Beastmode likes this.
	Last edited by TheOak; 11-08-2012 at 01:10 PM..

11-08-2012, 03:10 PM	#17
Crusader Resident Swede Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Märsta, Sweden Posts: 3,904	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Originally Posted by dam1953 In the US the financial problems appear to track states that have a heavily unionized labor force. Those that do are struggling financially. Those that don't appear to be surviving….for now. In europe its divided between the hardworking lutheran nations in the north and west and the catholic nations in the south where the big economical problems are. Then we have eastern europe where the cultural significance of religon isn't so big from an economcal standpoint but where countries are still feeling the effects of the Sovietunions opression. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!

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11-08-2012, 04:09 PM	#18
ScottF 40 year fan Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 2,341	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Originally Posted by x626xBlack Due to the fact that the answers to both of your initial questions are no... Your assumptions lead me to believe you are the typical Liberal or Conservative (both listed), where you only know black and white. You have been sucked into the us vs them mentality that present day politicians thrive off of. Does this statement make sense to you? You say you cannot determine if I am a liberal or conservative, but say I only see things black and white, am steadfastly one or the other? My post is about partisanship, how the minority needs to work with the majority and solve these economic problems. And yes, as the minority, they have to make more concessions. Fact of life. McConnell, Cantor, and the mouthpiece Limbaugh have openly stated the their agenda was to see Obama fail. Great, instead America is failing, and their alienation of voters just gave Obama 4 more years. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
	James Harrison: "If that man was on fire and I had to piss on him to put it out, I wouldn't do it."

11-08-2012, 09:45 PM	#19
saintfan Site Donor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9,541 Blog Entries: 5	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Originally Posted by ScottF Does this statement make sense to you? You say you cannot determine if I am a liberal or conservative, but say I only see things black and white, am steadfastly one or the other? My post is about partisanship, how the minority needs to work with the majority and solve these economic problems. And yes, as the minority, they have to make more concessions. Fact of life. McConnell, Cantor, and the mouthpiece Limbaugh have openly stated the their agenda was to see Obama fail. Great, instead America is failing, and their alienation of voters just gave Obama 4 more years. Obama must fail to keep America from failing. That's what you miss. Unchecked, the policies he will implement - policies that have failed all over the world - will be our ultimate demise. No compromise. Not even a little. Head right over the cliff. Let it happen. Let the whole thing bottom out. If that's what it takes to stop the liberals and their attack on the Constitution, then so be it. You voted for it. Swim in it now. We could have elected a man with a history of economic understanding and a record of bi-partisanship. Instead, you elected the most polarizing American politician since, well, maybe ever. Suffer it. It's what you asked for. Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook! foreverfan, frydaddy and dam1953 like this.
	Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel...

11-09-2012, 04:32 AM	#20
SloMotion Site Donor Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: the Motor City Posts: 2,860 Blog Entries: 15	Re: For my Liberal brethren. Originally Posted by ScottF My post is about partisanship, how the minority needs to work with the majority and solve these economic problems. And yes, as the minority, they have to make more concessions. Fact of life. McConnell, Cantor, and the mouthpiece Limbaugh have openly stated the their agenda was to see Obama fail. Great, instead America is failing, and their alienation of voters just gave Obama 4 more years. Let me ask you this on the partisanship issue ... don't you think it's time for the Left to move a bit more to the center though? Looking back at the recent leadership & candidates from the Right, Bush-McCain-Romney are so moderate that it makes your average conservative puke and even spawned the tea-party movement. Do you see what I'm getting at? To me it seems like the more the Republicans move their platform to the middle in an attempt to compromise by fielding moderate candidates, the more Democrats move to the left. It's almost like the Republicans are the new Democrats and the Democrats are becoming the fringe Left. I agree as the minority party you do have to eat a certain amount of humble pie, but I honestly think the Republicans have compromised their platform and principles more than enough and are now holding onto one or two key issues as sort of their "Alamo" because the Democrats have not responded enough in kind. I was disappointed in the 'one-term-president' rhetoric from guys like Sen McConnell ... Limbaugh's out for ratings similiar to Maddow so I don't put too much stock in what they say and I would disagree that either of them are mouthpieces for their respective sides ... but I think McConnell's stance is a byproduct of the Right feeling they have compromised enough and they cannot, in good faith and party principle, move any further away from their core values and still be considered conservative, albeit moderate, and I'm inclined to agree. While the Democrats did win the election, there was a huge shift to the right by the entire country and my hope is that the Left can somehow see and reflect that in their party line without comprimising their core beliefs. There's still a little time and a little wiggle room to get it done, but not much, :sweating:. Hey, on a lighter note ... during the NHL lockout they've been replaying some of the old RedWing games on FoxSportsDetroit. Last night was Game 2 of the '97 Stanley Cup Finals ... it was kinda' cool seeing Hextall/Vernon in net, Rod Brind'Amour, Brendan Shanahan (before he was an NHL VP), John LeClair, Yzerman ... I thought about you, ... Malty scored the game winner at 2:36 in the second period, in case you don't remember, . Share Share this post on Digg Reddit! Twitter! Facebook!
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