Crusader

OOI, Japan (AP) — After a tragedy like the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, the statistic is always trotted out. Compared to just about anywhere else with a stable, developed government — and many countries without even that — the more than 11,000 gun-related killings each year in the United States are simply off the charts.

To be sure, there are nations that are worse. But others see fewer gun homicide deaths in one year than the 27 people killed Dec. 14 in Newtown, Connecticut.

As Americans debate gun laws, people on both sides point to the experiences of other countries to support their arguments. Here's a look at two success stories — with two very different ways of thinking about gun ownership — and one cautionary tale.

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JAPAN — THE NANNY STATE

Gunfire rings through the hills at a shooting range at the foot of Mount Fuji. There are few other places in Japan where you'll hear it.

In this country, guns are few and far between. And so is gun violence. Guns were used in only seven murders in Japan — a nation of about 130 million — in all of 2011, the most recent year for official statistics. According to police, more people — nine — were murdered with scissors.

Though its gun ownership rates are tiny compared to the United States, Japan has more than 120,000 registered gun owners and more than 400,000 registered firearms. So why is there so little gun violence?

"We have a very different way of looking at guns in Japan than people in the United States," said Tsutomu Uchida, who runs the Kanagawa Ohi Shooting Range, an Olympic-style training center for rifle enthusiasts. "In the U.S., people believe they have a right to own a gun. In Japan, we don't have that right. So our point of departure is completely different."

Treating gun ownership as a privilege and not a right leads to some important policy differences.

First, anyone who wants to get a gun must demonstrate a valid reason why they should be allowed to do so. Under longstanding Japanese policy, there is no good reason why any civilian should have a handgun, so — aside from a few dozen accomplished competitive shooters — they are completely banned.

Virtually all handgun-related crime is attributable to gangsters, who obtain them on the black market. But such crime is extremely rare and when it does occur, police crack down hard on whatever gang is involved, so even gangsters see it as a last-ditch option.

Rifle ownership is allowed for the general public, but tightly controlled.

The whole article: Around world, gun rules, and results, vary wildly - Yahoo! News

I think this is a pretty interesting piece comparing between countries. The part about Brazil surprised me in more than one way.

You kids get off my lawn!

TheOak

I will ask the question here. Which statistic is the most important? My opinion is that forming an opinion based solely on gun murders by country is very myopic. Does it really matter what the person committing murder is using?

People murdered by guns.
or
People murdered.

Crime rates involving guns.
or
Crime rates.

Gun ownership.
or
Gun ownership where no crimes are committed.

In regards to the present United States presidential administration, lets use a stat that they have used in regards to jobs.

Murders and crime prevented by gun ownership.

For me it comes down to one question, and the question has nothing to do with gun murder rates.

Where would you rather be stranded by your car. In the slums of Houston with a pistol or in the slums of Rio de Janerio with out a pistol?

Since Brazil was brought up. Compare South America to North America.
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Murder rate for Brasil is 21.0
Murder rate for the US is 4.8


Read and learn about Jamaica
Jamaica's Bloody Lesson On Guns | Fox News

Murder Rate of 51


This list is sortable.
Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | guardian.co.uk

Number 1 rate of gun ownership: United States
Italy has a higher % of murders by Fire arm


So while the "gun laws in America" debate is interesting, strictly doing a comparison on murders from guns by country leaves out a host of discussions that are extremely relevant to safety, crime, and murders in general. This is not pointed at you Crusader, strictly looking at "Gun murders" tells me that the people writing these articles believe it is guns that kill.... Not the people wielding them.

Crusader

You make a good point, when writing an article like this its easy to choose one or two statistics and compare but to get a real thorough comparison you need to look much broader just like with any other topic.

TheOak

With out looking broader, when writing an article, "if" you want it to be worth the time it takes to write and your audience to read.. An author should keep asking him self "what is it that really needs to be accomplished here".

I am guessing that the author of that article and the author or articles like it are wanting to prove that America has a gun problem... Where is the value in that?

The most valuable argument is not whether or not gun control can stop gun related deaths.. To me that's fairly obvious. I would say the valuable argument is how can we stop murders and crime period. What the criminals is carrying in their hands is rather moot. They are not choosing to kill or commit a crime BECAUSE they have a gun, they are choosing a gun to use in their crime. Which is the entire point behind "guns do not commit crimes", people do.


I know in my mind the following argument is very legitimate.

Cigarette lighters and matches are the number 1 cause of arson and arson related deaths. Arson is intentional, and not accidental.

Shouldn't there be strict control's on lighters and matches? Arson kills children and adults (innocents), and kills multiple at a time.

(that is the same logic that is presently being used used against guns)

TheOak

Another question...

If a country choose to make killing with 5 certain objects illegal what do you think murders would do?

This is why making laws specific to the vehicle do not work, you must regulate the end result.

Switchblades are illegal as far as I know. <--- regulation of an item. because it was deemed more deadly.

Has that lowered the number of stabbings? Nope. Just means you have to take an extra .5 s to open the knife. Apply same logic to high capacity magazines.

If a guy wanted to take a box cutter through a 1st grade class it would have the same outcome. A 23 year old female teacher would stand just as much of a chance of stopping it.

Danno

Here's my simple-minded take on it.

If someone is trying to kill me or my family, I'm gonna be much more successful in stopping them with a gun instead of without one.

TheOak