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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Now you got that between San Antonio , Austin , Laredo and Bare Butt Briar Patch ???? That's between Dripping Springs and Oatmeal, isn't it?...

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Old 09-14-2005, 04:58 PM   #31
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Now you got that between San Antonio , Austin , Laredo and Bare Butt Briar Patch ????
That's between Dripping Springs and Oatmeal, isn't it?
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:51 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by saintz08
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Originally Posted by saintz08
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Originally Posted by saintz08
Okay 08, I don't know where you are getting your info
Where do I get my info ???
I bring the info to the debate .

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06059.html

They recognized that Anaheim is the demographic, economic, and social center of this market, with better affinity not only to Orange County, but Riverside, San Bernardino, and portions of Los Angeles County
I assume you are referring to the following counties as the San Antonio - Austin cooridor .

Bexar
Comal
Hays
Travis

I will even toss in :
Williamson

The total for these 5 counties is 2,834,413 established by the 2003 U.S. Census .

The O.C. , which by the way is 1 county is 2,957,766 established by the 2003 U.S. Census .

The O.C. has the advantage ......
I see your population figures 08, and raise you a county map. I should have known this since I was in Diamond Bar, CA mid month August, even went to Disney World, LA county and Orange County are right on top of each other. There is no way in HELL the NFL would consider putting a team in one, and then the other. Plus San Diego is right down the road. So if either Orange County or LA County gets a team, that's it for that market. Two franchises have already failed there. SO thusly, they count as ONE market, just like Austin San Antonio. Putting two teams in that same area would be like Jefferson PArish saying they want an NFL team now, that's how close they are. So ha!!! LA and Orange County counts as one entity when talking about placement of an NFL franchise, thus their pop figure total counts as 12 mil or so. That makes San Antonio/Austin second. And like I said before, that doesn't even include south to Laredo, even Mexico and west to El Paso. Gotcha bro. Nice try though. You tried to divide an area that is geographically the same. Not flying. Sorry my man. I am still right. :P
You can toss in all the counties of : Webb , LaSalle , Duval , McMullen , Frio and Medina .

Still come up short on Riverside County with 1, 782,650

By the way , it is Disneyland in Anaheim , not Disney World .....

You are wrong :P
Disney Land, Disney World, same difference. It's still Disney right? Anywho, Riverside is less than Austin/San Antonio, AND they already have one team in SoCal, so as far as NFL expansion they would only get one more, FOR THE AREA. So a slong as you are looking there, you are dead wrong. That whole area counts as ONE PIECE. Just like Austin/San Antonio counts as ONE PIECE. Give it up. You tried. You wanted to split a huge area into parts to prove a point, and it almost worked. But the county map did you in. And the fact that So Cal has one team already did that in. That area is the largest area in populus without a team, San Antonio/Austin with all parts South and West is second. That doesn't change whether Disney Land, Disney World, Disney ISland, Disney Planet, or Disney Universe is in Anaheim or Florida. You are wrong. And you started out wrong showing some article about MEDIA size, and continued to try to adjust from that gaffe. Sorry bro, maybe next time. :P
Your losing it today ..... :P

You are wrong. And you started out wrong showing some article about MEDIA size
What I started out showing you was the :
2005 State of the City Address given by Mayor Curt Pringle of the city of Anaheim. City seal and all ....

Where he indicates he has been contacted by the NFL to supply a proposal for a NFL franchise , with demographics other then the ones used by the Los Angeles / Ventura counties .

They recognized that Anaheim is the demographic, economic, and social center of this market, with better affinity not only to Orange County, but Riverside, San Bernardino, and portions of Los Angeles County
Now the counties they are using for the proposal total around 8 million people .

Now you got that between San Antonio , Austin , Laredo and Bare Butt Briar Patch ????
Wow, nothing left so it's down to jokes? I don't know why you jumped in initially 08, but you have been wrong since you did. Answer me this, if ANAHEIM gets a team, which is in the OC right, do you think LA is still in the running for one at that point? OR did you look at a map, see they are both in SoCal, along with San Diego, and if ANY another team goes there it will only be one? So if only one team is gonna go to SoCal, THE ENTIRE AREA COUNTS AS ONE MARKET. Get it yet?

And you started out by saying:

the NFL came to Anaheim and asked us to put together a proposal for the return of professional football to the nation’s second largest media market.
which you even highlighted the media portion, and were 1000000000% wrong based on the convo that was taking place. You have been fishing out BS figures ever since. Your whole argument is done as long as you use SoCal for your locale cause, and let me spell it out for you, T-H-A-T M-A-R-K-E-T I-S O-N-L-Y B-E-I-N-G C-O-N-S-I-D-E-R-E-D F-O-R O-N-E T-E-A-M. So no matter what incorrectly used media figures, or population figures you throw out, you are dead wrong. Unless, and I would hate to believe you think this, you think the NFL would look at putting two teams in that same area gain back to back. Please tell me you don't think that 08. Please.
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:28 PM   #33
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Answer me this, if ANAHEIM gets a team, which is in the OC right, do you think LA is still in the running for one at that point?
Yes , it has been a discussion point for years .

Anaheim feels as though they have the market for an NFL franchise and the league has had discussions with them .
Los Angeles is the largest market without an NFL Franchise and feels they should have one .

You are talking about a demographic area that between Ventura county , Kern County, Santa Barbara County , Los Angeles County , Orange County , Riverside County and San Bernadino County has about 20 million people based upon the U.S. Census . That is over half the poulation of California in 7 Counties .

The O.C. is a viable Market for an N.F.L. Franchise , regardless of Los Angeles getting one or not .

I copied the Media Market from the Anaheim Release .

Are you not aware that the 2nd market for an NFL Franchise is Orlando Florida ??? Thought this was common Knowledge .
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:29 PM   #34
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Are you not aware that the 2nd market for an NFL Franchise is Orlando Florida ??? Thought this was common Knowledge .
LMAO. Um, no, that is not common knowledge. Sorry. And that is not even the argument. The argument is outside of SoCal, San Antonio/Austin is the next largest populus without a football team. You have yet to disprove that, unless you seriously believe Orlando is even in the running. Why wouldn't Tom Benson threaten to move to Orlando if they wanted a team? HE pulled New Mexico out his arse before Orlando. Please.
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:37 PM   #35
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As a note to this conversation , if you believe that Anaheim wants an NFL team so it can be called " Los Angeles " you have lost your mind ....

City of Angels not home to baseball's Angels
By Patrick McFawn


I'm letting one of my biases out of the bag - I'm an Angels fan. What can I say? There's nothing like the nostalgic ballpark atmosphere when you head out to Angel Stadium, watch America's favorite pastime and you hear the announcer yell: "Here are your Los Angeles Angels!"

What?!

By now, you've most likely heard of the controversial name change for the Halos. The Anaheim Angels are now the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Wow - that's quite a mouthful. And I must admit that I'm slightly disappointed as an Angels fan displaced in Los Angeles territory.

Both the city of Los Angeles and city of Anaheim don't like the Los Angeles tag on a team that plays almost 40 miles away from downtown.

The city of Anaheim contends that the name change violates the lease agreement that the Angels signed in 1996, which states that the name Anaheim must be included in the official name of the Angels. The contract also included that the bill of $20 million for the recent stadium renovation to be paid by the city of Anaheim, which would gain virtually no increase in income through municipal taxes.

As a result of this legal controversy, the city of Anaheim sued Angels Baseball, LP. The court date is set for Nov. 7, which conveniently happens to occur after this year's season. You have to love the speed of the legal system.

The city of Anaheim, during January, sought a preliminary injunction baring the name change until the outcome of the November trial was determined. Orange County Superior Court Judge Peter Polos didn't issue this temporary restraining order baring the L.A. tag, since, according to him, the city had not demonstrated that it would ultimately win.

Andrew Guilford, who represents the city of Anaheim, contends that the team is being referred to as the L.A. Angels during the preseason and the phrase "of Anaheim" is never included.

The City of Angels (don't get confused now) filed an amicus curie brief with the city of Anaheim stating "Anaheim is not located in the city of Los Angeles, and the Angels should not be permitted to adopt a name that begins with the geographical identifier 'Los Angeles.'"

http://www.dailytrojan.com/media/pap...s-920725.shtml
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:42 PM   #36
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San Antonio/Austin is the next largest populus without a football team.
If you eliminate California , then yes , San Antonio is the next largest city in total population that does not have a football team .

And for Damn good reasons .....

The TPI for San Antonio is generally in the toilet ......

Portland Oregon looks better on paper then San Antonio .

That is why they can build the Alamo Dome out there and NFL teams have not been interested .

Another media based explanation has been :

I also think the biggest reason why San Antonio is such a relatively small media market is because there's no big suburbs around it. Here's the census map for Texas. The biggest county neighboring Bexar is Guadalupe, with 97,000 people, followed by Comal with 88,000. There are four counties adjacent to Harris that are each bigger than those two combined - Fort Bend, Montgomery, Galveston, and Brazoria. Together those four counties have well over a million people in them. The combined population of Collin and Denton counties up near Dallas is also over a million. Bexar has nothing like that. San Antonio is a big city, but that's all there is.
http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/005358.html
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Old 09-15-2005, 09:12 AM   #37
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If you eliminate California , then yes , San Antonio is the next largest city in total population that does not have a football team .
Okay, I have only said that for the last 5 posts. But now that we got that straight, I still said Austin/San Antonio.

That is why they can build the Alamo Dome out there and NFL teams have not been interested .
Actually, they built the Alamadome to attract a team, and they did have a team, in the USFL. lol But the Alamadome has never been a first rate NFL facility due to the lack of luxury suites. Also, the numerous attempts to move a team here by Red McCombs has been consistently voiced with displeasure, cause of the seedy way he has tried to do it, similar to the seedy way he wants San Antone to try and steal the Saints right now. But they are on the short list for a team. Houston beat them out on expansion cause they had an owner that had recently moved the team. The only thing preventing San Antone from having a team right now is the NFL, and the fact we have a perfect number of teams in the league as is, so moving an existing team is about the only option.

San Antonio is such a relatively small media market
Again, what does being a MEDIA market have to do with selling out games? Nothing, and it's not what I have been talking about at all. I never even mentioned the media so consistently reading reports about media size is not phasing me. This is what phases me:

S.A. Saints tickets are a big, easy sell
Web Posted: 09/15/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Never did the Saints, nor city officials, imagine they'd be pleading with local football fans for patience in their pursuit of pro football tickets.





Yet, that was the situation on Wednesday after a feverish rush gobbled up 50,000 tickets for three Saints games in the Alamodome within eight hours after going on sale.

The demand for tickets was so heavy, computers used to process online requests crashed 15 minutes after sales began at 10 a.m.
Lines of customers snaked outside the Alamodome by late morning. The wait, compounded by initial unavailability of choice seats, irritated many in the crowd, thought to number about 500 at its peak.

"It's unbelievable the way the community has turned out," Assistant City Manager Roland Lozano said.

Said Alamodome director Mike Abington: "This reminds me of the response you might get for the Beatles, the Rolling Stones — or Garth Brooks."

"I hope they count right because I'm pretty pleased," Mayor Phil Hardberger said. "Apparently, it's been a hot ticket. It didn't surprise me, but it is certainly comforting to know we did that. Thinking it and seeing it are two different things."

Ticket windows at the Alamodome remained opened until 10 p.m. for late walk-up sales. By day's end, officials were stressing three points to the public:

None of the three Alamodome games has yet sold out. Tickets still are available at all price levels. And tickets are available for all seating locations.

That includes luxury suites. The Alamodome has 34 to offer, although area corporations pounced to fill out paperwork for suite purchases during a meeting Wednesday morning at La Cantera with Saints owner Tom Benson.

City leaders said the Saints weren't prepared to deal with the rush. As the high demand became obvious, extra staffers were put on phone banks and at ticket windows.

Much of the frustration expressed by fans concerned the limited availability of choice seats. Even those first in line at the Alamodome — one fan arrived at 3:30 a.m. — were told that only seats in the upper levels and end zone were still available.

Officials said the Saints' obligation to about 35,000 season-ticket holders in New Orleans complicated the issue of which seats to offer. Those season-ticket holders have until 10 days before the kickoff of each game to claim comparable seating in the Alamodome.

But a Saints official said the club will not put aside 35,000 Alamodome tickets for season-ticket holders. A source said the number of tickets will probably be significantly lower.

"We are off to a great start," said Saints marketing director Conrad "Connie" Kowal. "It was a very positive, overwhelming response."

Displaced by the Katrina disaster, the Saints moved their training headquarters to San Antonio 13 days ago. On Monday, three Saints home games — Oct. 2 against Buffalo, Oct. 16 against Atlanta and Dec. 24 against Detroit — were moved to the Alamodome.

Four others were moved to Tiger Stadium on the LSU campus in Baton Rouge, La.

A portion of the Saints' sales staff was moved to Baton Rouge on Wednesday, further compounding problems with sales here.

Those complications didn't dampen the reaction of local officials.

"The response — and I know it sounds cliche — has been overwhelming," said Christian Archer, special assistant to Hardberger. "Are we going to sell out all three games at the dome? Damn right."

Archer said local fans should consider the Saints' plight.

"To have learned the schedule on Monday, and to see what the Saints have done since then, truly amazing," Archer said, "especially when you consider that a lot of these people have lost their homes and are wearing only T-shirts because they have no clothes."

Rumors that scalpers and ticket brokers were hoarding tickets were quickly dismissed.

"You can't compare this to anything we've ever done," said Jerome Cohen, owner of Best Tickets.

"They (the Saints) are doing something here that takes an entire season and compressing it into two weeks. Usually, they start selling tickets the day after their previous regular season ends. Their business has got to be brisk. They have to sell 65,000 seats in two weeks."

Both Cohen and John Binder, owner of Awesome Tickets, said demand for Saints tickets was very heavy.

"Our phones have been ringing off the hook since the announcement," Binder said. "We're getting calls from Austin, Corpus Christi, Laredo, the Valley."

Said Cohen: "There will be complete capacity for all games. I don't have any doubt for that, even the Christmas Eve game. San Antonio is an NFL town and this opportunity fits hand in hand with what people have been dreaming about."
Lastly, what does tis have anything to do with baseball and the Anaheim Angels? Nothing. Weren't they the California Angels, then went through all kind of weird changes? What does that have to do with a FOOTBALL team coming in for that area?
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:10 AM   #38
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Okay, I have only said that for the last 5 posts. But now that we got that straight, I still said Austin/San Antonio.
No , your point was in eliminating Los Angeles and the market . The O.C. is one county with a larger population then the 5 counties that connect Austin/San Antonio , including those cities .

With its own stadium proposal .

http://bastienarchitects.com/live/anaheimnfl.html

If you think for one minute that the O.C. is going to build a stadium to have the name Los Angeles put on it , you are nuts .

Both the city of Los Angeles and city of Anaheim don't like the Los Angeles tag on a team that plays almost 40 miles away from downtown.
By the way , if you have an issue with that whole proximity thing check a map around central California in the Bay area ....
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Old 09-15-2005, 11:30 AM   #39
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Man, I was waiting for you to bring up the bay area. Didn't Al Davis move the first time cause he was losing money due to the proximity of the 49ers? Didn't he, as an owner, have to move his team BACK to Oakland from Los Angeles when he got pissed with the city? Sorry, not even close to the same as expanding a franchise into the area. The NFL didn't go and say, "We need to put a team right across the bay from San Fran right now." Didn't happen. Oakland had a team, had that team leave, and then come back. Think if Anaheim gets a team the Rams will move back to Los Angeles? Pass the wacky tobacky.

No , your point was in eliminating Los Angeles and the market . The O.C. is one county with a larger population then the 5 counties that connect Austin/San Antonio , including those cities .

With its own stadium proposal .
Regardless to who proposes what or where they play, SoCal will only get ONE MORE TEAM. I thought you had gotten that, now you are just making things up to keep this going. They can call them whatever they want where they play, that will be it, for now at least. So trying to squeeze them as separate markets is futile.

Both the city of Los Angeles and city of Anaheim don't like the Los Angeles tag on a team that plays almost 40 miles away from downtown.
One, that's MLB. Nowhere near the dominant force that football is. Two, if either location gets a team, they are not gonna be called the LA(insert franchise name here) of Anaheim, or vice versa. The NFL wouldn't do that. They would call them the Los Angeles whomever or the Anaheim whomever, or the California whomever, and that area will have to supprt them or not. It's really not this hard to understand.
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Old 09-15-2005, 12:18 PM   #40
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Man, I was waiting for you to bring up the bay area. Didn't Al Davis move the first time cause he was losing money due to the proximity of the 49ers?
Stadium issues

1. When the NFL first declined to approve the Raiders' move from Oakland to Los Angeles back in 1980, the team along with the Los Angeles Coliseum successfully sued the league for violating antitrust laws.

2. The Raiders sued the city of Los Angeles over the fact that the city backed out of a stadium deal for the team.

3.After moving back to Oakland, they were sued by the NFL for losing the Los Angeles television market, the second largest in the United States.

The greedy bastard just wanted the rights .....

The NFL didn't go and say, "We need to put a team right across the bay from San Fran right now."
No , the A.F.L. did though ...... The N.F.L. just declined the move to Los Angeles .

Oakland had a team, had that team leave, and then come back.
Anaheim had a team , had that team leave , and now wants one to come back .

One, that's MLB.
Wrong . That's just life in general ......

The City of Angels (don't get confused now) filed an amicus curie brief with the city of Anaheim stating "Anaheim is not located in the city of Los Angeles, and the Angels should not be permitted to adopt a name that begins with the geographical identifier 'Los Angeles.'"
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