AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

Awesomely terrible. I said even when we beat the Panthers, and he had that phantom fumble, the whoosh I think it's called, the old AB was still in there. And it was. Where is all the praise now? Pile up stats while racking up 4 turnovers. I think oldies DJ summed it up best in the "No Brooks Bashing" thread, so I won't repeat, but no Brooks bashing isn't my rule. This is EXACTLY why the offense was changed to have the ball in Brooks' hands less. Egads this dude blows. But that brings me to the offense as a whole. Who the F$%& designed the running game? All I saw was Deuce plow into a stacked line for a yard almost every play. Where are the counters, misdirection, pulling guard, off tackle, etc. etc. Is Carl Smith back in town? This had to be the most unimaginitive running game plan I have seen since the Redskins first got Portis and didn't know what todo with him. And is it me, or does it seem like we still run out of a two tight end set a lot? Keep Karney in front of Deuce on every run. How hard is that? But damn Brooks sucks. He is not the only reason we lost, but he is one of the main ones. Exhale.......... I guess it's back to reality for Brooks lovers. Too bad we can't play the Panthers every week. That's the only game you can count on Brooks performing above his normal mediocre-terrible.

RE: AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

you are right saintswhodi

I couldn't agree more with this. The whole time I am sitting there saying to myself....we can't try anything different than right in the middle straight into a pile of 8 guys who aren't moving? This annoyed me.

Re: AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

If Brooks "sucks" after yesterday's performance, then Culpepper must be complete dog crap after this past Sunday...


Brooks made alot of solid throws in yesterday's game...even drawing praise from the announcing crew. I woudln't even call him one of the "MAIN" reasons we lost.

Anyway, we lost.....and it's time to move on. After we beat Minnesota this Sunday, you'll all be euphoric again....so none of this negative talk really matters.

RE: Re: AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

nice throws and blah blah blah. 1 td 3 int's. 1 fumble. his up n down play is very important. if we beat minny next week and he plays well, then we wil loose to green bay the following week. he is a problem. not the only one but he is a huge one. man at some point you have to say the guy isn't going to take the next step. right now though he is our best and probably only option.

Re: AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

No Brooks doesn't suck after yesterday's performance, Brooks has sucked 50% of the time every year he has been on this team now. And we already discussed Culeppper, so move on. Turn the page. We are talking about the QB OF THE NEW ORLEANS SAINTS, Mr. Mediocrity. He drew praise in the first quarter, before the mistakes. And he most definitely was one of the main reasons we lost, unless you don't think turnovers were a factor. It's hilarious when Brooks has a game like this, let's move on, but when Delhomme did it, is was 5 pages of Brooks is better. This is priceless.

True, the loss was a team effort.

And AB did make some really good throws. The sideline throw to horn early on was great. The dropped TD by Conwell and the tipped interception were not on AB. But, for every plus...AB supplied a minus.

Now.....the fumble was just awful. We had established a nice drive and that was the point where the game truly could have been turned our way. This is the dichotomy of Aaron Brooks....he moved well in the pocket and made some nice throws, but his mistakes were amplified by their negative impact. His timing is amazing when it comes to sucking the life out of the team.

Haz lost his cool tonite....and I would love to know who our video guy in the booth is. Neither of the challenges were even remotely disputable.

And, everyone should remember that trick plays are considered crafty until they go wrong. If McAfee gets the end and goes out to the 50, we would have all thought it was a great call. As it was, it knocked the wind right out of our sails and we were in 2004 mode from the whistle. The Giants held their lanes really well on the play and that's why McAfee got swarmed.

The defense played very well, especially in the second half. They played well enough to win the game with the notable exceptions of Craft and the pass rush.

The running game has sucked for 2 weeks and it's not on Deuce. There's only so much running you can do standing in a half ton of humanity every time you touch the ball. Whodi is right on...where are the counters...the pulling guards, the misdirection. Our running plays are the same ones we all ran in midget football. Straight ahead in the one hole, straight ahead in the 4 hole etc. Those plays work when your o line is dominating....ours is not.

Oh, and thanks for the crowd noise at our home game...that was awesome. Appreciate it Tags. The Saints "logo" in the endzone looked like I pissed it. Screw the Giants.....but they do appear to have a better team than anyone thought. Their D played really well when they had to.

I'll say it again...give me substance over style. 400 yards in between the twenties and ten measly points.

Does anybody have our record on Monday night football? We suck moose cock in prime time....it's almost like we get too hyped up and try to stick our chest out.

RE: Re: AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

I'm not gonna give up on him just yet....(holding back the rage)...I think he will get his head in the game eventualy......(hope)

RE: Re: AB is AWESOME!!!!!!!!
 

How can you say Brooks is not one of the main reasons?

Why did we lose? 6 turnovers.

Brooks accounted for 4 of those 6.

Thats over fifty percent, homes.

Ahhhh, optimism.....God bless you Chaching :)

You know what helped me last night? I watched a documentary on the school massacre in Russia a year ago after the game. It put things in perspective seeing a bunch of 8 year olds talk about their mums dying while they watched. I was beside myself till I saw that...then I went and hugged my little girl and forgot about football so that I could sleep.

I don't get it.

I mean, I've been as big a critic of AB as anyone for a long time. Ask Saintfan. But Brooks did not suck yesterday and he hasn't sucked all season, short as it may be.

He's played 6 quarters of overwhelmingly good football. Then he's played two that were mistake prone. But even with the mistakes, this is the best I've seen AB play, maybe ever. So he threw an INT early on a deep out - happens to every QB in the league. The last INT was a total garbage INT, so does that really even count? Does it count more than Horn's fumble or Carney's miss? I don't think so.

The crossing route was bad but he was trying to make a play. Sure, take some heat off it AB. That one was his fault. AS was the fumble. In fact, they all were. AB regressed, mostly in the second half last night. He played sloppy mistake-riddled football. He has 9 negative plays in two games - that's way too many.

That said, AB has played better ball IMO. Yes, he absolutely needs to reduce the mistakes. No question. So does Brett Favre, so I'm not sure why he's getting such harsh criticism. Brooks hurt us a few times. But he helped more than any other player on the team other than probably Joe Horn.

That was a team loss. Putting it on AB is ignorant or biased, IMO. Sorry, that's just what I think.

I'm sorry A) who are you and where is WhoDat? B) who put it on Brooks? I clearly stated the running game and its planning and execution were more at fault. That doesn't dismiss the normal AB up and down suckiness. I saw Mark Brunell throw two perfect strikes over the top to win for Washington, does AB EVER do that? Other QBs do that, why can't AB? He throws these lazers that cause the receivers to have to stop and ctach the ball instead of catching anything in stride. There was one play where Donte was crossing the middle and the announcers said he would have gone to the house if not for the lazer behind him. Yes AB has played some good ball, but like someone said, the timing of his mistakes is crucial in most losses. So people get more upset at the timing of these mistakes, more than the fact that they actually happen. So if the other QBs defense applies to throwing INTs, where is the other QBs do it defense for touch passes hitting receivers in stride allowing them to run after the catch?

I think WhoDat kinda nailed it....
I just think after last weeks showing(against a better D) we were hoping for a better display from AB..
Horn gets no Blame from me because of his effort.....did you see how he ran up and hugged 25 after the opening fumble.........dude is the s%$#!

Exactly. I think you kinda nailed it.

So your basis for saying AB sucks is what exactly? That he can't make every throw? Lots of QBs can't make all the throws. Every QB has a strength and a weakness. The current Saints offense is geared towards timing and seam routes - those are throws you don't put air under. He had nice touch on his perfect pass to Conwell that dropped in over Conwell's outside shoulder, which, coincidentally, Conwell wasn't really even looking for.

Besides, your statement isn't linear. Bringing a team back or winning a game isn't based on being able to throw "over the top." The relevant question - has AB used his arm to bring the Saints back to win? The answer is yes, many times, including last week, no?

I understand fully the anger over the timing of AB's f ups. I've argued that point myself. All I'm saying is that AB didn't put us in a hole last night. He did help us climb out though. And then in the second half, HE didn't F up at inopportune times any more than basically everyone else on the team did.

I mean, put it on a per attempt basis. Horn had a good game right? He touched the ball, what, 10 times? And had 1 turnover. Brooks threw it 40 times and had 4. Seems like relatively the same ratio to me, no? So if AB f*&^s up at the wrong time, so does Horn I guess. Where's your Joe Horn sucks thread?

woah Whodat!......someone needs a cup of coffee and a bagel (or a BJ)
relax homie just discussing the game.......no fingers pointed..
...yet...

One, Horn fumbled trying to make a play with less than 4 minutes left in a 17 point game. He reached for the goalline. Not quite the same as ending a drive in Giants territoy with an INT which led to points, and then fumbling away another drive, as well as trying to drill a hole through a guy 7-10 feet from you. Who cares if he can't make every throw? All I am saying is, don't use an all QBs throw INTs defense if you don't wanna similarly use a mostly all QBs can throw touch passes excuse.

And to say AB didn't put us INTO the hole is one thing, but he helped dig it deeper before trying to help us climb out. There are several reasons we lost that game, AB is one of them. If you see it differently, kudos. I don't. If it had just been two turnovers, from the QB position, that is too many. And yup, there are many QBs out there right now who have committed those same mistakes, doesn't make them any more or less acceptable than AB. As a matter of fact they are less acceptable coming from AB cause his F' ups leads to our losing. As has been the case for 4 years now. Give the guy all the breaks you want, not me. I accepted what he did last week as good game play, and I expect it to continue, no swing one direction to the other week to week.

LMAO!! Okay. I told you after the first game the real Brooks was still in there. He came out a little in Carolina, and a little more in NY. Keep watching.

340 plus yards......several accurate throws......2 turnovers in garbage time..........

To answer your question, SaintsWhodi has NO basis for saying it. But watch him get really worked up while trying.

On the first interception, 2nd and 15 after a holding penalty, Brooks' pass to Stallworth went into triple coverage and was underthrown. Replays showed that he didn't go through a progression to determine the best passing option. He was under pressure when he threw the pass.

On the fumble, 2nd and 6 from the NYG 44, Brooks appeared to lose concentration just after the snap. He had the opportunity to fall on the ball and take the loss, but tried to do what every idiot tries, and wound up kicking the ball up into the hands of Joseph. This may have been a pass play, but who knows.

On the second interception, Brooks got pressure up the middle. Horn and Stallworth were doing short crossing patterns. I couldn't tell by the replay, but the pass might have hit the field judge, but at any rate, neither receiver was in a position to catch the ball. There were 5 devenders in the immediate area.

The third interception was stooopid, but at that point, throwing behind Horn in a skinny post route with triple coverage and only 30 seconds to go was a meaningless play. There was no pressure on Brooks when the ball was released.

Of these 4 turnovers, there were no mitigating circumstances to deflect total blame to Brooks. Additionally, these turnovers were consistent with the mistakes Brooks has made in the past.

Brooks did make a few nice throws, but several, including the first catch by Horn (who was stunned he was the one to catch the ball), should have resulted in an interception as they were thrown into tight double and triple coverage.

It seems to me that this "simplified" offense is very predictable and does not require much thought by the QB. Fortunately, hand and glove fit nicely here.

Wow, xan. Nice post.

I don't throw all the blame on Brooks. There was no running game, no pass rush, bad coaching, Jason Craft, bad special teams.

I think the point is this...Brooks was in a position to rise above it...to put the team on his back and carry us to a win. We still had a shot until the fumble and we dominated the 3rd defensively. How do you teach a five year pro to handle a snap? Like you said, the reason people are going crazy is that this is how brooks kills us. So to most of us, his mistakes were most glaringm and thus draw the most ire.

I'm not suggesting that this loss was all Brooks' fault. This was more coaching than playing. The decisionmaking at most every level was baffling:

Opening kickoff. No need to delve there.

5'10" in stilts Jason Craft on 6'5 Plaxico Burress for each score in the 1st half.

The run blocking schemes.

The play calling. No misdirection, no sweeps, no traps. No rollouts. No designed QB runs.

The D-line getting manhandled by one of the weakest O-lines in the league.

Bad tackling

Bad special teams.

Tagliabue designating this a HOME game.

Brooks just fell into the trap that every team wants the Saints to fall into, which is let the Saints beat themselves. All the Giants did was give a lot of rope. The Giants weren't particularly impressive.

I'm not the least bit aggitated. When I get worked up it'll look a lot worse than that. I think AB is being unduly criticized. Just as I attacked the points of view of the people who defended Brooks no matter what in previous years, I will challenge those who criticize Brooks no matter what this year. Just the way I work.

Right. Sure. When Horn fumbled he was trying to make a play. When Brooks threw a pick he was doing what, exactly? Trying to get back to the sideline ASAP? Horn's garbage fumble doesn't count but AB's garbage INT does? Or the tipped ball does? Whatever. That bias showing.

Really? You should go back to the film Whodi. You think we scored those 10 first half points on the legs of McAllister? That was all AB. And yes, he threw an INT, I know.


Again - inconsistent. Other QBs' screw-ups don't lead to their teams losing? Let me ask you this Whodi - would you take Culpepper and his 8 INTs right now straight up for Brooks? If so, why?

BECAUSE CULPEPPER WAS RUNNER UP FOR LEAGUE MVP LAST YEAR AND AB'S INEPT PLAY HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 5 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-SaintsWhodi

WhoDat, can;t say I am digging the new you, but he seems to be able to make the same spin.

What bias? Horn's fumble came in the 4th quarter when the game was pretty much over. AB's turnovers came in the first half. Nice try.

what the hell does this have to do with turnovers that lead directly to points for the other team? If AB leads us to 10 points but he has two turnovers that give the other team 10 points, you are satisfied with that? Fall in line with the mediocre is fine crowd forming to your left.

Why is that inconsitent? Cause I care more abour our QBs F/ups causing THE SAINTS to lose than I care about another team's QB causing whatever other team to lose? Nice reach. So Culpepper looking like crap the first two games is the same to you as AB looking like crap half this game and helping us to a loss? Those hit you the same? Nice try again. Spin someone else.

And would I take culpepper over AB, any day of the week. I posted his career stats in the Culpepper thread, have a look.

You finally got it. Bravo. Man, you must be running out of breath running form thread to thread defending AB. I must say I find this quite amusing.

And I find it equally as amusing that I can sum up 90% of your posts fairly accurately in about 2 sentences.

Your summary is more like 20%...not 90%......

Where did I ever say that we should "blame someone else" for all of Brooks's mistakes, or "overlook" them for that matter?

It was a TEAM loss guys, let's move on. Remember that? An obvious attempt to gloss over anyone giving Brooks any blame at all. Let's move on? how fast did you wanna move on when Delhomme was getting ragged on? Very, very slowly. So either your are inconsistent in the way you view talking about QB mistakes, or you want to sweep ABs errors under the rug and quickly focus on next week.

So does that mean Aaron isn't part of the team?

And Whodi, I see you still don't let the facts get in the way of your Brooks bashing. Try this.


Fumble on Kickoff - 7-0 Giants.
Saints punt.
Giants drive, score - 14-0 Giants.
Saints drive, score (AB to horn) - 14-7 Giants. (On the drive, Brooks completed passes for 70 yards and had a roughing the passer penalty. Deuce carried 1 time for 3 yards. Caught two passes for 8.)

With 3:27 left in the first half AB throws an INT.

Giants run 3 plays. On 3rd down Smith sacks Manning - illegal contact on Hodge. The Giants end up scoring. Now personally, that's on the stupid a$$ defense and specifically Hodge, not Brooks. But even still, let's say that Brooks gave them 7 on that turnover, OK?

Saints ball - 2 minute drill (all passes) - field goal. That's 10 points on drives engineered by Brooks. So far he's caused MAYBE 7.


ALL of his other turnovers were in the SECOND half. Not first. The Giants only scored on two more field goals all game.

One came after the AB fumble. On that "drive" Charles Grant had a roughing the passer penalty and McKenzie had a holding penalty to put the Giants in field goal range and keep their drive alive. Sure - that's all AB's fault.

Their other field goal came on the drive after Carney missed the field goal. So, AT THE MOST, AB could have given the Giants 10 point - which is exactly how many he accounted for mostly himself. Really, his 4 turnovers would have resulted in zero points if the defense hadn't freaking hurt itself.


No, I'm not OK with that. Never have I said I was OK with that. But you seemingly ignore the numerous drive sustaining penalties that the defense committed in your haste to bash AB. He didn't have a good game, but he also didn't have a terrible one.

So then what's your point? When a game is in doubt, turnovers are NEVER good. If AB doesn't turn the ball over, is the defense on the field to committ those penalties, or is the drive continuing to either a punt or a score? We can go round and round all day. If you agree AB had a mediocre game, then he was a part of the reason we lost. If you don't disagree, what are you looking to prove? How is saying AB is a part of the reason we lost bashing? And when are you gonna address the 50 other folks who said the same thing? What are you getting at?

Mediocre is part of the reason we lost? See, I took good to mean - helpful towards a win, bad as hurtful, and mediocre as neither - but I guess anything less than excellent means you're partly to blame. Great. Everyone on the Saints team is to blame for the loss against the Giants. Maybe Horn could have been excused... but he FUMBLED!!! OH MY GOD!!! GET A NEW STARTING WR!!!! <gasp>!

That's all you got? Here's the problem, I never said AB was the reason we lost, EVER, yet you are attempting to somehow disprove that. If I never said it, what are you working towards? Next, mediocre, when it's obvious the Giants focus is to take away Deuce and let AB beat them, IS bad. Unless you saw a different strategy than I did. They stuffed the run,and let AB throw all day. He threw lazers all night, and then he made the inevitable AB mistakes. And please don't try to dismiss that tipped piss. I thanked God they showed it again on PTI cause I erased my DVR of the game to make space for some shows last night. A defender was rushing him, and he flung the ball into the middle of the field and hit Donte in the pads. Donte never even looked for the ball. So if you are keeping score at home, that's 2 INTs and 1 fumble while the game was still in doubt. Yeah, we shouldn't blame him at all.

Last, after the Panthers game, I not only gave him props, I posted an article speaking to his hew found leadership in how he gave the team credit for the win. Yup, sounds like a basher. Maybe if you don't argue non-existent points, you won't have to fabricate fictional statements like getting rid of Joe Horn. And if you are keeping score again, AB has 5 turnovers and one TD on the year. When are you gonna start the MVP parade?

Uh - your first post was that AB is terrible. I simply said that isn't true. Now you're saying he played well in week 1 and mediocre in week 2. Ok, I proved my point. Thanks.

you know I dont post here much for these reasons, all people wanna do is blame some ONE, the giants didnt beat the saints, the saints beat the saints....conwell, horn, drop/fumble TD passes, carney misses a gimme... 17pts, the opening kickoff fumbled possible 14 pt swing, how may penalties and personal fouls that kept drives alive, all of course is brooks fault, sure....brooks made mistakes, but also made some incredible throws with def hanging on his pantlegs, all game long, its his fault the line cant block, his fault OC cant put karney in front of deuce, its all brooks fault, u guys got it all figured out, how come u arent coaching the saints??

If your point is you had none, you proved it well. I also said this in my first post:

Miss that somehow? By no means should anyone consider a QB who is on one game and off the next for his whole career terrible. God forbid. And when have you known me to not feel AB was terrible? I keep saying he has yet to prove me wrong. You're not inventing the wheel there bud. I give him credit when he plays well though, seems it would say something about a QB people have to actually point out when he plays well instead of simply expecting him to play well. I seem to recall you had plenty of knocks for AB too, until now for some reason. But let's get back to what you are "trying" to prove, or not, cause who the hell knows. Why would you lay out a play by play a few posts back outlining how the DEFENSE was responsible for us giving up points after ABs turnovers(but somehow AB wasn't), but then on another forum, you say:


But when defending AB here it's:

Maybe? huh? Seemed more definitive above. But that's on another forum. But let's dig deeper:

Said when defending the defense, again on another forum. But when defending Brooks here it's :

huh? Now they are a stupid ass defense, but you are pretty okay with that kind of defensive performance, personally? Both of these statements made today, on two different sites. Trying to prove what again? Oh, that when someone says Brooks is one of the reasons we lost, he is really saying Brooks is the only reason. Gotcha.

word.

LOL

whodi likes to argue :)

:poke: