2-3, How bad is it?
 

Ok.

That sucked. Let's face it, we need to learn to forget that game and soon, or it will be a long and terrible year. It is like the CB on the island - "I got beat last play?" This is the direction we need to go.

However, while I think players and fans should put that game behind them, just like a good cornerback, the coaches cannot.

With Atlanta and Tampa Bay losing, we didn't drop back in our division. Thus, the real questions for the coaches are what can we learn from this game, and where do we go now.

Here are my first pass thoughts, and I hope to hear from more of you:
1. We are not really pressing the passer the way a line that includes Howard, Grant, Smith, Whitehead, Young, and Bryant should. What is going on here? Maybe we need to blitz more, but with a front four made up of these guys, we need to be able to get it done with just them sometimes. Sure, they're getting some pressure, but it isn't very consistent, and in my mind, not so impressive yet.

2. We need to revise our running game. Duece isn't looking good, and I'm sure it isn't just his fault. I thought we learned last year that we needed two back sets to really get going. Sure, we were way behind and we had to pass, but still, we need to focus more on being effective on the obvious running plays.

3. It is time for McPherson to get some reps in practice. Bouman sucks, as he always has, and Brooks is too expensive for the play he is giving us.

4. We need a linebacker for crying out loud. Watson and Bockwoldt are fine, but they aren't playmakers. The rest of the crew is serviceable at best! Damn it, why didn't we fix this problem this offseason (or the one before, or the one before).

5. The OLine, despite a bad day looks pretty good to me. Sure it'd be great to have a younger LT, but on the whole, I'm pretty pleased.

6. We also need a second CB, and how. After McKenzie, we suck. The Safeties are looking good to me, and Bullocks will only improve.

7. Our passing game needs some work. I was having trouble telling if it was the WRs, the scheme, or the "quality" of the GB pass defense today, but our guys were looking bad. Also, AB, despite his own flaws, wasn't throwing THAT badly in the first half - we need to catch the ones that hit our hands.

8. I do agree that Katrina has seriously disadvantaged our boys, with no actual home games, a good deal of distractions, and a lot of road tripping, but we need to focus.

Just a quick overview. I'd love to hear from you guys.

RE: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

I don't remember dogging Brooks; I said he is too expensive for the performances we're getting from him.

I agree that our OL wasn't so good today, but in general, I'm pretty impressed with them. They have been fairly strong over the five games, and if it weren't for the fact that GB knew we were going to have to pass pretty well every play - they would have been better today.

Whence the hostility?

RE: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

I hope that with the Atlanta game looming that Bouman is the one listed as inactive next week

RE: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

Send Brooks and Bouman to Arizona for a 12 pack and future considerations .

Start McPherson and get him sometime under center .

Hasbeen is clueless and has no dignity left or he would have stepped down years ago .

This will most likely be the same scenario for the next 2 years , up and down with no real getting anywhere .

Well that gameswas embarassing.

I'm still dreading NOT Drafting D.J, We needed a Linbacker and I know Brown is going to be good, when he's not false starting every second play, but DJ would have had a bigger IMPACT NOW!

What benefit has Brown had that we could've done with out?

What I mean is if we had him or not our run game was and is avg. Right?

DJ would've given us protection against the RUN, Which we need BAD, He could've set the tone and have other Linbackers step up!

Our offense is what it is and will stay that way until we get a new QB, I'm not blaming it all on Brooks but it SO painfully obvious that a change is needed.

I am very dissapointed that we didn't adress what everyone seemed to agree be our biggest weakness VIA the Draft.

With this good a pass rush I don't know what more we could do up front. Best I see it, is that teams are seeing that a screen past can get then 20-30 yds becuse there is NO LB anywhere in sight, and the run continues into the secondary which guarantees 2-3 missed tackles! Kind of take the pressure off knowing that don't U think?

That's all for now.

I'm speachless. I have no clue how to salvage this season. Sure, we won two games, but we also almost lost against Carolina. We beat nobody in the Bills. Every other game, we got our rear end handed to us. I say put in the 3rd string quarterback and let him develop along with some other young guys on our team We're not going to win most of the games we have left to play anyways. We just asoon develop for next season.

we suck, we suck, we suck. From all levels top to bottom, both lines, WR's, PK, LB's, DB's, Coaches... wtf. I did see this coming though, "you can can kick a dog so many times until he bites back" GB bit back hard.

1.) it doesn't matter who is on the offensive line if there is no lead blocker for deuce... history has proven this
1a.) it also doesn't matter who is on the o-line if deuce doesn't lose some weight and get quicker... he looks like he's running in quick sand for goodness sakes

2.) since la'roi glover left (bonehead move on our part) we have not had a decent DT on our roster... sully, young, whitehead (who's a DE not a DT), wouldn't start on St. Mary's powderpuff team

3.) can we please get a linebacker?! the ones we sign are on the brink of non-existence in the league and the ones we draft are terrible... i'm sorry but bockwoldt nor watson is the answer... watson is a liability in the pass game and bockwoldt couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat

4.) can we get someone to go on the other side of mckenzie in the secondary... we should have kept jimmy williams, and no fakhir brown is not the answer (although he has marginal value at nickel back like fred thomas)

5.) if carney doesn't retire we MUST cut him... misses way too many kicks outside of 35 yds... you can't rely on him anymore and he's cost us a couple of games (Jacksonville '03) along the way

6.) smiley has to go... get anyone in here besides him... too inconsistent, too unintelligent, not enough heart to lead even the boy's choir

7.) fire venturi and hire a real offensive coordinator... venturi's game plans never work b/c there's not a lot of pressure being placed on the quarterback... this simply will not cut it in the pass happy NFL

After we beat Atlanta next week, all the talk about blowing up the roster will be replaced by "great effort! Huge win! Maybe Green Bay was the wake up call we needed! " etc etc etc..

I wish it weren't so, but we appear to be headed down the same path of the last 2 years: 8-8. Win, lose, win, lose...

I would love to be able to explain why it happens, but I honestly don't know.

Beat Atlanta? Are you serious? If Vick Plays we lose. and I think 8-8 is being very optimistic.

Dead serious.

I would'nt bet a plug nickle on the Saints to win anything right now. Too many bad players and coaches hanging around. Why don't you take that dead serious thing and make a bet on the Saints and see how much money that get's ya.

If Vick plays we will be lucky if THEY don't beat us WORSE than 52-3!!

Stop the press...
WE WIN NEXT SUNDAY!!
I don't think we could win at hopscotch right now...
(we looked like siht)

Unfortunately, the school for the Blind will beat the current roster.

Hear, See, or Smell no evil...except for the stench left in GB.

Sad, so very sad.

Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

[quote="JKool"]With Atlanta and Tampa Bay losing, we didn't drop back in our division. Thus, the real questions for the coaches are what can we learn from this game, and where do we go now.
quote]

Kool, as always, a pleasure to hear from you. Good to see that you have your eye on the ball, per usual.

In response to the question of "where we go now?"

1. Defensive Line -- I don't know what the problem is with the d-line. We have poured more money, effort, free agents and draft picks into this unit than any other and don't seem to be getting results. I'm at a loss to explain this. I thought the idea was to be able to a) contain scrambling QBs with the front 4 and b) generate pass rush without having to resort to blitzing. Against the Packer patchwork line, we really should have managed both of these tasks better. I cannot seriously believe that we need better players here, even though a true 2 gap guy would be nice. I'm not optimistic about the balance of our season if we can't get pass rush from the front 4. We have 11 sacks on the season so far, which is still better than Tampa's 9, but I'm not as impressed with our D as Tampa's.

2. Offensive Line, Running Game -- The running game flat our scares me. In pre-season, I was most confident in our ability to run the ball between the tackles with the addition of Mayberry and a year's experience at center for Bentley. Deuce only averaged 2.8 yds per carry today. Not acceptable. The fact is that we are putting all the pressure on AB to win with his arm and he's too streaky to count on. Without significant improvement in offensive line play soon, we are simply not going to be able to keep up with the rest of the division for a wild card berth. (Note here that I'm pretty much writing off our ability to win the division outright.) I'm disappointed in Deuce, I'm disappointed in the run blocking, and I'm disappointed with the new offensive look.

3. A-Mac -- He probably needs practice reps. I think the question with him becomes: are you ready to admit you're going to have a rebuilding year? IF the Saints want to even consider starting A-Mac, then they need to consider dealing AB right now. If we bench AB for A-Mac at midseason, we are going to kill AB's trade value. With his cap number, I think we should at least get something back from him. I guarantee you that teams like the Jets, the Fins, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Bears and the Lions might be willing to mortgage their future for a shot at the playoffs now. Teams like the Lions, the Chiefs, the Ravens and the Jets might believe they have enough defense to deal with AB's streakiness. I believe that if you start A-Mac with AB on the roster, we have no chance of dealing him for any value at all. If we trade him before the trade deadline, fine. Otherwise, keep starting him until next year and give A-Mac lots of time in practice.

4. Linebackers -- I think we need to make a big move in free agency (and probably over-pay) for a proven commodity. We don't have any luck (or ability to evaluate college players) with the position via the draft.

5. O-Line, generally -- I want to like these guys. Either Deuce is the problem, or the run blocking is the problem.

6. Secondary -- I like where we stand at safety too. We probably need to draft a 1st rounder at CB to be serious about the position. Problem is we seem to have a lot of 1st round needs. I'm not sure where we get a quality CB in the offseason. Woodson will be available, but he hasn't impressed me at all over the past couple of years.

7. Wide Receivers -- Is it the passes or the drops? Is it the route running? The only guy we can really count on is Horn. I agree, we have to get the ones that hit us in the numbers.

8. Katrina -- I don't get it, we've always been a better road team anyway. I didn't really expect us to be at THAT much of a disadvantage this season. I'd think that not being boo'ed would only help AB. Granted it is a HUGE distraction for guys who have built a life in New Orleans, but this is the same kind of play we've seen from them for 5 years now.

Given the rate of recovery, I think it's likely that the Saints won't be back in NO next season either. I'd be open to purging the coaching/front office staff and most of the veteran players and do a full rebuild. Make a good clean break with the past. Not what anyone wants to hear, but I've recently begun to believe that we are suffering systemic problems. i.e., I'm not sure that fixing the d-line makes us a playoff contender, or getting 3 quality LB's makes us a playoff contender. I'm beginning to wonder if somehow the blend of people we have brings out the worst in each of them and keeps them from playing well?

RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

I don't think there is much wrong with the d-line. The run D is suffereing because our LBs are beyond bad. Watch monday night and pay attention to who is making the stops on running plays and where. You'll see LBs making plays at the LOS rather than 5 yards downfield like our lackeys.

As far as o-line, I still have to believe that they're not getting it done. Deuce was dropped fur yards in the backfield on a play when he ran straight ahead. How does that happen with a good o-line?

Carney needs to be cut this week. There are plenty of kickers out there that we can sign that can miss as many as he has missed...maybe more.

RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

WIN AGAINST ATLANTA!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?!?!?!?!?!?

Atlanta almost beat NE with the backup QB. BEAT ATLANTA?!?!?!?!?

We let Farve run wild on us and the offense managed to sqweek out THREE FRICKIN POINTS!

BEAT ATLANTA???!!!????!!!!????!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!?

I know we are beyond insane for being SAINTS fans, but I don't know what to call this.

BEAT ATLANTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP, THIS TEAM SUCKS B@LLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

BMG and Scotty,

Thanks for your replies.

Scotty, I hadn't considered Carney, but I agree. If you miss two 43 yarders in the NFL, it is time to hang it up. I suppose, it is likely that I'm overrating our OLine, but they are so much better than last year, and have so much more upside - perhaps I just got over excited about them.

BMG, I think we're agreeing on all the details. I also like your view on the AB/A-Mac situation. I don't think we'll get anything for AB either way, but I respect your thoughts on this. Oddly, we disagree on what is to be done, in terms of scratching many aspects of the team, but perhaps a few more games and discussions will bring us together on that.

Good to hear from you guys too!

Re: RE: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

:shock:

Are you kidding me? Did we watch the same game? Please, Aaron Brooks was throwing passes to Green Bay like he still played for them. Not to mention, the mental lapses, which he has a hell of a lot of. You said Brooks played smart. Come on, the guy can't even spell smart. Did Brooks blow you right after Haslett? It seems like every forum I read, your in there defending Aaron Brooks. Jesus, that must keep you busy! The guy's athletic & has talent, but he's as dumb as a sack of bricks! He might be great in an event like the discus or the javelin, 'cause he does have an arm. But not football! Don't get me wrong, the WR & the O-line stunk up the joint, but the excuses for Brooks are 6 years old. Besides, did you watch the Pittsburgh-San Diego game? Drew Brees was running for his life every play, yet he still managed to play well. Let's not bail the man out. He SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Re: RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

Absolutely. You can throw records and stats out the window when we play Atlanta. The only question is whether we wind up on the WINNING SIDE of a 7-point or less game, or on the losing side of it.

We will win.

RE: Re: RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

If you say so.

Heres to HOPE! :patos:

But this is what we will feel like doing after the game... :puke:

RE: Re: RE: Re: 2-3, How bad is it?
 

I am not looking at stats Gambler. I am looking at what they have done so far. Who knows, crazier sh@t has happened before.

go saints.

Trade Brooks...promote A-mac...get the guy some reps under center..BUT look at what has happened to Carr in Houston..Do we really think our coaches can come up with better protection plans...I think NOT

I'd take the points against ATL
We always play them close.