Same ol'?
 

We lost badly today.

We are 2 and 3. There are 11 more games.

Our QB is streaky.

Our RB is not looking like a spring chicken, but he is tough and when the running game gets going, he can climb to 100 yards quickly.

Outside of today, our O Line looks pretty good. They're young, and they'll only get better.

When our WRs are doing their job, and not trying despirately to make plays, they're serviceable at least.

Our D Ends are phenomenal.

Our D Tackles are serviceable at best.

Our LBs are serviceable at best.

Our Safeties are both solid.

We have one good CB.

Am I wrong?

This seems like a reasonable account of what is.

Looking at these facts, does it seem to anyone that we will be 2 and 14 when the season ends? I think not. Does 2 and 3 mean we won't make the playoffs? I think not.

Again, I know we lost, but I say there is no reason to write us off yet. I don't see one here. I guess, I just don't see the argument that "we suck". Sure, "we sucked, today", but that is different from "we suck".

Someone please enlighten me as to what it is that they see (that isn't on my list) that I don't, that makes all the difference in conclusion "we suck" versus "we sucked, today".

RE: Same ol
 

PS - We've finally learned to run the screen pass. That counts as serious improvement in my book.

RE: Same ol
 

And Bullocks actualy looked descent...
(wish the rest of the team did)
TAKE CRAFT TO THE PARKING LOT AND BEAT HIM SILLY!
WTF is Fakir?

Nice optimism Kool, but you forget we didn't just suck today.

Minny had no wins, guess who gave them one? Culpepper was leading the league in turnovers, he had 3 TDs no TOs against us. GB has one of the worst defenses in the league, and we managed 3 points. They got 28 off turnovers alone. They were without two pro bowl guards they lost in the off-season, their starting center, and their starting LT was playing on a bum wheel. We got outscored 52-0 after a 3-0 lead, again with 28 points off turnovers. Against the Giants, turnovers and penalties killed us again. So we have the one up emotional game in Carolina, and a win against a horrible JP Losman led Bills offense in which we hit the red zone 5 times and managed 1 TD. Not seeing the cause for optimism. It's not when you lose, it's how you lose that shows the character of a team to me. We may be 2-3, but it easily could be 0-5 had we been consistent in our mistakes, which there were too many of to say we could be 5-0. And this team under Haslett has shown repeatedly they will committ stupid mistakes and make stupid penalties, so it's not like we can look back over any particular stretch in Haslett's regime where this wasn't the case, so what's there for it to change?

More later today, but I wanted to say thanks for the thoughtful reply, Whodi. I'll ponder.

As always Kool, anxiously waiting. :D

WE SUCKED !!!! HORRIBLE !!!

Right on here Kool. AB can come out in one game and throw for 300 yards and be tossing lasers all over the field and look like a Pro-Bowl caliber player; and then he can come out the next game and play like he's the quarterback for the Little Giants.

This might be a little too optimistic for my opinion. They are still one of the most penalized groups in the NFL. They can't run block. Period. They're pass blocking has been good, so maybe that's where you were going with it.

These guys are absolutely awful. None of them have the ability to be game changers. They miss tackles and I still haven't seen them make a big play yet this season.


Overall, I think we do suck. However, with a change in the coaching and motivation of this team, I think that this could be a good team. Good analysis Kool

Kool. This is not news. We have always had the capability to be a better team. But as you said the QB is off and on. We failed to address the LB situation over the offseason and it is killing us. Fakir is a step up above Jason which means he at least will be in the highlight film when he gets burned. And now with Deuce lost for the season, we could very well be doomed...but now (if Haslett wants to keep his job) is the time to rally the troops. Now we get to see if this team has any pride. We need to go out there and kick the snot out of Atlanta for starters and then keep on kicking ass until we get a measure of respect. I hope they do it and if they don't...well that's my Saints ...ya gotta love em.

I'm hoping for a complete and total freefall to 2-14 and take Matt Leinart first in the draft!

Amen. 3-4 Different sports writers openly wondered when Brooks was done here. Deuce's injury may have sealed this team's fate.

Keep looking. Don Banks, Peter King, and Clark Judge. I am sure Jason Whitlock will have something soon when he writes his column. In week one he called AB the most fraudulent QB in the NFL. I posted that too. Keep looking. There's also a thread about AB's awesome 64 passer rating. The only regular starters he is better than is Joey Harrington, Kyle Orton, and JP Losman. Awesome company.

Once again we probably won't end up with the first pick but if we do Matt Leinart might pull an Eli and say he won't play for the Saints. Brooks almost has no trade value now so I have a feeling he will be back next year (or is next year the year his option kicks in? I can't remember.) especially if we get a new coach (Brooks will probably get one more shot unless Haslett comes back and puts all the blame on Brooks and cuts him) because many peolple say he has talent but is too careless (and possibily not smart enough) to be a leader. Never once have I heard Brooks say it was his fault or he made a bad decision. I still have a gut feeling we will finish 7-9 because now Haslett and Staff will really game plan instead of just planing to give the ball to Deuce up the middle.

... dare I bring leadership into this discussion??? :)

... is there one player in the o-line who'll put his body on the line for Brooks?

... we had one such guy once...

Is it just me or is this new slimed-down offense way worse than last year. My high school offense was better than what I've seen this year and we sucked?

only saint fans can handle a kick in the kahunas like sunday with a follow up of perhaps the best player permanently injured. geaux saints fans, you are a helluva a bunch. even with the dark cloud that has come my fear is still the same... another 7-9 to 9-7 season. just enough, ya know... the hurricane displacement, deuce out, blah, blah, blah... we still keep haz, brooks n company for another schizophrenic season... AAAAGGGHHH!!

the nfl is still very parity wacky. the goofball up and down performance of this regime could still make the playoffs. i would take a miracle of not just eeking in the playoffs and not having immediate elimination. if not that though, puhleeze oh st. lombardi let it be a top 5 draft pick at least. something that would rid us of a beancounter instead of a football guy as gm, something that would clear out a good enough guy but who all too obviously now is not of head coaching material. would it be too much to move smiling butterfingers before the trade deadline? some desperate team with an injured qb might give us something for him. nah, that is too much. just cut him next year. see if he can get half of the 6.5mil on his '06 contract then.

it hurts following this team. 38 years and i am still here though. maybe i'll dredge up my overhaul plan from posts this spring.

they will probably revise the blue laws in baton rouge for drinking in tiger stadium. anyone wanna get sloshed and laugh at this show with me?

It is true that there is one thing that Haz does really well: save his job.

Whodi, back to our earlier discussion, for which I thank you (as usual) for your thoughtful reply.

I guess, upon consideration, I can't really respond to your claims, so I'll acquiesce. It seems to me that I was looking for a single premise that would make the transition from the facts I listed to the conclusion that "we suck", rather than "merely sucked on Sunday." Your suggestion is that there are a number of different premises that lead to the conclusion that "we suck", but they need to be considered as a whole.

Here is a pair of examples:
1. We got beaten by a bad team.
Therefore,
2. We suck.

That argument is invalid.

1. We got beaten by a bad team.
2. Our QB is streaky, sometimes we commit too many turnovers, sometimes our playcalling blows, our run blocking is not strong, Jason Craft blows, our LBs are not playmakers, annon.
Therefore,
3. We suck.

This isn't strictly speaking valid, but it is a much better argument - and I believe it is the one you were suggesting.

I suppose the only out for an optimist here would be this: since premise 2 is a long list of things, it could be that if a few of them change, we will cease sucking. Alternatively, since premise 2 isn't a cohesive rule, it is difficult to predict from it that we will suck next week. That is, it isn't a unifying explanation of any kind. That isn't a criticism, since I more or less agree with you, it is just that without something like a unifying (or single) reason, it is hard to make bets on whether or not it will continue in the future.

Apologies that that was kind of long and dull. More or less, I was just thinking out loud - and I said I'd get back to you.

Nutshell Kool, under Haslett's watch, this team has gotten steadily worse. Players that we all think should be good, and dominant, aren't. Players who should not be starting anymore, are. And the mistakes just compound. There is no steadfast variable as to when it will happen, it just does. One game we have 4 penalties and no turnovers, the next we have 11 penalties and give away 28 points on turnovers. There is no rhyme or reason to it, and there is no quantifying measure that will put rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes you just have to go with, "That's just the way it is." Anywho, thanks for getting back to me.

Whodi,

I guess, more or less, I agree with you. I just can't buy the "that's just the way it is" premise - it may be irrational on my part, but that sort of line rarely makes for good predictions (even if they are sometimes accurate).