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BlackonBlack 11-29-2005 07:18 PM

4th worse in the NFL
 
That's what the ranking is for our run defense, which unknowingly causes teams not to even bother to throw the football; which gives the Saints a misleading higher passing rankings and causes a higher than should be overall defensive ranking.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NF...r?sort_col_1=7

Tobias-Reiper 11-29-2005 11:44 PM

ho-hummmm....

Worst in the NFL... that's what our offense ranks in turnovers with 28... of course, that has no bearing on the defense... not only should they get the ball back, but they should score, right?

8th worst in the NFL in offensive scoring with a whopping 19 TD's... good for them they played the sorry-ass Jets and scored 3 uh? Before that, they had a whopping 16 TDs in 10 games..

19. Total number of points scored off turnovers by the Saints offense in 11 games...

8th worst ranked QB in the NFL, right behind Trent Dilfer... but at least he's #1 in INT's with 13... doesn't look that bad now after playing Jets, because before that game he only had a whopping 9 TD passes in 10 games
.

TheDeuce 11-29-2005 11:52 PM

Why can't you guys just admit that our rush defense sucks, and that our defense still has its problems?

FrenzyFan 11-30-2005 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDeuce
Why can't you guys just admit that our rush defense sucks, and that our defense still has its problems?

Because though our rush defense is not dominant, our defense as a whole does enough to keep us in games. They stop enemy drives far more often this year that last. It is simply our offense than can do nothing at all (pass or run) to help out.

BlackandBlue 11-30-2005 08:16 AM

Quote:

That's what the ranking is for our run defense, which unknowingly causes teams not to even bother to throw the football; which gives the Saints a misleading higher passing rankings and causes a higher than should be overall defensive ranking.
Having a bad defense can also have a negative effect on your QB. Bad defenses eat babies too!

saintswhodi 11-30-2005 08:51 AM

BNB, I have a question. Did BOB get the boot? I am just curious cause, I went back to look at some old arguments, and his messages are deleted. It was the strangest thing. But I come here, and see this isn't deleted, so I am curious as to if he got booted and the messages were deleted, or he went back and deleted them himself. Help a brotha out.

Euphoria 11-30-2005 10:13 AM

are you kidding me??? Our DEFENSE does not do enough to keep us in games or even win them! When you give up big plays, in Key situations, you lose. When your ream has the lead and you let the team run and pass down the field to win the game in the final seconds you aren't doing enough. When you give up points early in a game and your offense is playing behind all game, you aren't doing enough.

xan 11-30-2005 10:31 AM

What's worse on this team, the offense that turns the ball over more than it scores with universally acclaimed all-stars or a defense that is giving up the league average in points?

If you pick the offense, you're the unassailable winner.

yasoon 11-30-2005 11:20 AM

Quote:

are you kidding me??? Our DEFENSE does not do enough to keep us in games or even win them! When you give up big plays, in Key situations, you lose. When your ream has the lead and you let the team run and pass down the field to win the game in the final seconds you aren't doing enough. When you give up points early in a game and your offense is playing behind all game, you aren't doing enough.
I have so had with you, dude.

Tell me about this abundance of leads that our defense has given up...The Rams game when we didn't play offense the entire 2nd half?

I assume you're talking about the Falcons game since you haven't shut up about it. Our Defense gave up 20. Our special teams/offense gave up 14. If you look at the pick AB threw inside the 20 to Brooking IN THE 4TH QTR TO GIVE UP THE FREAKING LEAD, you could really say our defense gave up less points than our offense/special teams.

You're a canteloupe.

saintswhodi 11-30-2005 11:23 AM

Actually yas, our offense/special teams gave up 21. Blocked FG, Smith's fumble returned for a TD, and AB's INT that led to 7 points. The defense actually gave up 10, not counting that last second FG which would have been unecessary. But your canteloupe statement is dead on. :lol:

yasoon 11-30-2005 12:20 PM

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt whodi.

But the Atl game has come up alot in the Defense argument and I think it's hilarious. Because, as you said, being kind to the D, they gave up 10...being harsh, they gave up 20. (ie, they were on the field for 20, counting the FGs)
But, then, you get the argument that the 85 bears would have kept them out of the end zone after their stupid QB threw a ricochet pick into quadruple coverage.....so that's a rat hole too.

In AB's defense (on that pick), I thought the play calling was horrible to put him in a position to throw that pick the way we were running at that point. But, hey, sometimes you have to let your QB win games :)

You wanna see who loses us games late? Go check out our QB's situational stats in the second half. It apparently takes him the entire 3rd quarter to wake up from his halftime nap. And his 4th qtr numbers suck this year as well.

it's all immaterial....these facts and stuff...

Again, the D is NOT good. But, the O is worse.

Euphoria 11-30-2005 12:51 PM

whats wrong with the people for not seeing that its the whole teams fault, offense is less than par the defense is horrible yet again and our special teams have completely collapsed. Why does it have to be one or the other... I am here to tell you its ever unit that is horrible this year. Damn waterboy.

Yasson, I think if you want to continue to be a memeber here you refrain from name calling.

TheDeuce 11-30-2005 01:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:
are you kidding me??? Our DEFENSE does not do enough to keep us in games or even win them! When you give up big plays, in Key situations, you lose. When your ream has the lead and you let the team run and pass down the field to win the game in the final seconds you aren't doing enough. When you give up points early in a game and your offense is playing behind all game, you aren't doing enough.


I have so had with you, dude.
I'm hoping that wasn't directed towards me, because I wasn't even the one who said that...

yasoon 11-30-2005 01:09 PM

I quoted Euph and I've had it with Euph....i thought that would be clear :)

yasoon 11-30-2005 01:16 PM

Quote:

Yasson, I think if you want to continue to be a memeber here you refrain from name calling.
The Mods do their job well here and they will let me know if and when I cross a line.

Trust me....I have shown alot of restraint with you and I am hardly the one inciting other members here.

I called you a canteloupe. It's a delicious melon....light yet sweet. Goes great with breakfast and is also nice in a fruit salad. Rich in antioxidants and easy on the waistline.

I don't see the problem.

TheDeuce 11-30-2005 01:21 PM

Quote:

I quoted Euph and I've had it with Euph....i thought that would be clear
Ok good to know, thought that maybe since me and Euph had taken the same side on this and I've been in a long argument with SW over it, I thought it was towards me. THanks for clearing it up! :)

lynwood 11-30-2005 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euphoria
whats wrong with the people for not seeing that its the whole teams fault, offense is less than par the defense is horrible yet again and our special teams have completely collapsed. Why does it have to be one or the other... I am here to tell you its ever unit that is horrible this year. Damn waterboy.

Yasson, I think if you want to continue to be a memeber here you refrain from name calling.

Offense less than par?? that's the understatement of this year but how long has it been said that we have a very talented offense that doesn't play to it's potential? No it's not the whole teams fault, some units play better than others. The offense this year is playing worse than the defense period. They may lose as a team but they play on the field differently.

yasoon 11-30-2005 01:38 PM

Offense, less than par.....

You noticed that too, eh lynwood?

Again...a softer stance on the O and the D is "horrible". This is the stuff that makes my head spin.

BlackandBlue 11-30-2005 02:16 PM

Do people realize that teams run the ball more later in the game, when they have the lead??? Ever thought that might have an effect on our run defense's statistics? There's not a single person on this board that doesn't think this whole team stinks. So why do you keep arguing the issue??? The offense is bad. The defense is bad. Special teams is bad. Cut em all, hell, Charles Grant is nowhere near close to setting the world on fire this year, yet, you NEVER see anything negative written about him.
Ideally, I would like to see us draft Leinart, I know, most of you attribute his performance to Reggie Bush, but Matt's best year was in 2003, and Bush wasn't even a factor then- Hershel Dennis was the starter for USC. However, I think the Saints will go on another late season tear, and end up drafting just like we did last year. If that is the case, my next pick would be Ferguson, if he's available. Two young cornerstone tackles would make my NFL pants go crazy.

And unless you receive a PM from either myself, Halo, Saint08, or JKool, I would not be too concerned about threats of having your account deactivated.
Euph, tisk tisk, there have been many times in the past where I should have sent you the PM, but didn't. I've tried to let things go on many occasions, but sometimes I do need to step in. And if all this crap continues, I'll be joining JoeSam in retirement...sipping Corona's...watching all the bikini'd tail...from my lounge chair...on the beach.

saintswhodi 11-30-2005 02:48 PM

You're right BNB, we do need Leinart. :D

But in all seriousness, this debate has gotten as bad as the AB debate. It seems like this one has even replaced it temporarily. All debates on here are usually cyclical. Someone feels like they didn't get it off their chest in the last thread, so they start a new one. Someone feels noone will read to the bottom of a debate, so they start a new thread with new info, but on the same topic. Round and round we go. It can be extremely frustrating, and tiresome, and I guarantee you BNB there is not one person here who doesn't appreciate the jobs you guys do. Not one. We all do. Your hermetic nature of only speaking occasionally adds a Zen like quality to your words. No need to retire. I am disqualifying myself from the debate I have raging with the Deuce, which is pretty nasty on both sides(but in all seriousness, I think we are both just having fun, at least I am, I never take that stuff seriously), and I know guys like yas and tobias don't really like repeating themselves either. You know how it is bro, none of us are gonna agree on everything all the time. Last year yas and I were at ends and this year we seem to be pretty much on the same page. The Deuce and I are in an argument now but everything else this season we pretty much have agreed on. Cyclical. It'll die down, and something else will take it's place, and then you can come in with a couple of paragraphs of focused, buddha like thought and quell the uprising.

yasoon 11-30-2005 02:54 PM

BNB.....

You are right. Charles seems to get a pass. I thought he was on the verge of probowlness this year.

I like the guy alot. One of my favorite Saints (as is Deuce). But Deuce sucked this year and Grant has been a let down.

In my opinion Will Smith has been our best defender. Dwight has been decent, but he suffers from some of the same "i play safety for the Saints therefore I must be out of position 5 times a game disease" (Is it the scheme? WHAT THE HELL IS IT?) Fakhir has been disappointing and I thought he was on the cusp. Mike is OK. Bock has been decent. McKinnon has been surprisingly decent. Hodge is fast, but out of position alot. The D line has not generated much pressure at all and turnovers seem rare. Blah, blah, blah....it's so freaking frustrating.

And, as far as your NFL pants going crazy.....best of luck with that :)

yasoon 11-30-2005 02:56 PM

Quote:

Last year yas and I were at ends and this year we seem to be pretty much on the same page.
Screw you, whodi. :mrgreen:

TheDeuce 11-30-2005 03:17 PM

Quote:

Cyclical.
True. SW, I was just filling in for BonB while he had his technical difficulties, but I am relinquishing role of cyclical arguer back to him. :banana:

saintswhodi 11-30-2005 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yasoon
Quote:

Last year yas and I were at ends and this year we seem to be pretty much on the same page.
Screw you, whodi. :mrgreen:

Aww, is little yas upset he had to get more in line with what I was telling him last year?lol No worries bro. :P

BlackandBlue 11-30-2005 03:30 PM

Had a mandatory dinner Sunday night (read: her friends, not mine), and found myself surrounded by Packer fans (not sure how that happened, she's never even been to Wisconsin). These guys were pissed as hell when the McKenzie trade went down, you would have thought the sun rose and set with Mike. The guy is a gamer. Can't you pick the gamers in this league, just by watching them play? In my opinion, we have five gamers on this team right now, two on defense (McKenzie and W. Smith), three on offense (Joe Horn, LeCharles Bentley, Mike Karney). Deuce would be on this list, but he didn't look like the same Deuce over the past two years. You can tell there is something different about these five players, that puts them above their peers. Outside of that, we have a team of bits and pieces that aren't functioning very well together.

And I'm not going anywhere, I say **** like that sometimes in the hopes that it'll get the old guy to come out of hiding.

And my pants are back in control :dance2:

Euphoria 11-30-2005 03:40 PM

People only want to read what they want to read. I was merely trying to say its not just the offense wich seemed the tread was leading to say its all the offensive problems.

TheDeuce 11-30-2005 03:50 PM

Quote:

People only want to read what they want to read. I was merely trying to say its not just the offense wich seemed the tread was leading to say its all the offensive problems.
Agreed Euph. Completely.

yasoon 11-30-2005 04:02 PM

Quote:

Aww, is little yas upset he had to get more in line with what I was telling him last year?lol No worries bro.
I think you and I had our worst problem when you accused me of sniffing AB's jock because I got on a Jake a little bit. Now, you know where I'm coming from and I know where you're coming from. You have also gotten a bit less confrontational......and I commend you for that.

My opinions change with what I see....and last year, I think we agreed that we won 4 games mainly because of better D, not really great O. So, I think I've seen the O as more of the issue for the last 2 years. (That streak of 3 and outs last year was IMPOSSIBLE.)

2 years ago, I thought AB got too much heat (which goes with the territory). Over the last couple of years, I have watched him get worse, so I am harder on him now. The D has gotten better as he has regressed, giving us the same/ worse results. I don't hate AB or our offense, I just hate watching them look silly like they often do. It's not always the scoring drives that win games....sometimes, you just need to go 45 yards, give the D a rest, work some clock, and work the field position game. The offense is not very good at that. They have gotten a bit better at possession this year, but they wet the bed on the scoring end.

And BnB......I'm with you on the gamers point. Success in football is a fine line between bringing intense passion while maintaining poise and discipline. The guys you mentioned may have a bad play, but it is never for lack of effort. Also, I know McKinnon is no stud, but his name seems to get called alot when he's in there, and that's one of the things you like....LBs with their nose in the mix. We have been devoid of that type of consistent LB play ever since we hired an LB as our coach.

BlackandBlue 11-30-2005 04:20 PM

Know matter how in love with a player you might be, you've got to realize that sometimes, he might not be the right fit for the system he's working in. Would AB be All-Pro if he played for another team? It's easy to answer "yes" or "no", but I feel that is foolish, since we have no friggin idea. What I do know is, it ain't working here.
Case in point- I remember the year that Pat Swilling had 16 sacks, and was claimed to be the next LT. Then he signed a big contract with the Raiders the next year, I believe, and feel into a black hole, literally. He ended his career with the Lions, I think (this is all going off memory, and it's not what it used to be), never replicating the season he had with the Saints. Oh yeah, he had one of the most brutal linebacking groups in the history of the NFL surrounding him, when he was here. If you would have asked me if his play would drop off by changing teams, I would have told you no, hundreds of times over. Huh, who knew?
As far as I'm concerned, outside of the five I mentioned earlier, along with the rookie classes from the previous two years- keep em, and cut the rest.

freestyle 12-03-2005 06:38 PM

Quote:

Case in point- I remember the year that Pat Swilling had 16 sacks, and was claimed to be the next LT. Then he signed a big contract with the Raiders the next year, I believe, and feel into a black hole, literally. He ended his career with the Lions, I think (this is all going off memory, and it's not what it used to be), never replicating the season he had with the Saints.

Pat Swilling was traded to the Lions, and the Saints got a first round pick in exchange. With 2) 1st round picks the Saints selected Willie RoafLT Louisiana Techand TE-Irv Smith out of Notre Dame. Swilling was later cut by the Lions ending up in Oakland.

freestyle 12-03-2005 06:40 PM

Quote:

Case in point- I remember the year that Pat Swilling had 16 sacks, and was claimed to be the next LT.

And the only people claiming Swilling was the next LT, was Detroit. If he were the next LT, are if the Saints thought he was would they have let him go for so little?


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