Defensive Stats

yasoon · 11-30-2005, 12:55 PM

So, we've been slinging poo around here talking about how good/bad our D is. I went to nfl.com and looked at our scoring D and realized that it is much lower than I thought.

Then, I realized that nfl.com does not calculate scoring D based on the points your D gave up...they use total points. We have given up 285 points for a 25.9 PPG average. (29th in the league...pretty stinky.)

Now, the true scoring defense has you subtract all picks for TDs, blocked kick returns , QB running backwards for safeties, etc.

So, that's minus the following: 14 (GB pick returns), 14 (Atl fumble/blocked kick), 2 (Miami safety...we should probably add the FG we gave up after ABs 25 yard loss before the half to give them a shot at the FG, but I digress.), 7 (Stl pick or whatever the hell it was).

That's 22.5 points a game. Again, not good, but the way we turn the ball over, it's an uphill climb.
We don't get enough turnovers to bail out the O...that's for sure. We give up lots of rushing yards...I know. The pass rush is not as good as it was or should be. But this D versus the D we trotted out the last 2 or three years is actually an improvement. Hell, this D would have gotten us 2-3 more wins a couple of years ago when we gave up 20+ every time out. We're keeping most opponents right around the 20 mark, either just below or just above. The Pack game and the Vike game are the 2 aberations...other than that, they have kept us in games.

We have lost games where the D gave up 21 (stl...bad defense), 20 (atl...we got hosed), 17 (dolphins with a banged up D), 27 (giants appear to be for real), 24 (pats had a rotten pass D on the field and we couldn't break 20), 20 (the Bears are flat out nasty on D).

So, as I have said many times this year....if the O shows up in these games (other than the Atl game where they looked very good and the bears game where 17 is a decent output), there are 3-4 more wins on our schedule. 6-5, 7-4? Not totally unrealistic with a little more help from the O.

I can't put it down any clearer. The D, while average at best, has put in some efforts where we could have notched more wins with more offensive output. I put alot of this lack of output on our field general....good ole number 2.

That is all.

saintswhodi · 11-30-2005, 01:37 PM

I like your stats yas, but actually points off turnovers are calculated as any score following a turnover by the offense. So if the offense fumbles on the one, and the opposing team drives 99 yards for a score, that counts as points off turnovers. So if you want a true calculation, you have to account for every turnover that occured prior to the opposing team scoring, which as of about 2 games ago, was more than HALF of the points this team had given up. I think we are more in the teens as far as scoring defense if that is calculated. As ESPN said, it's not just points off for your team when your offense turns it over, it's a potential 14 point swing, as well as field position, etc. etc.

yasoon · 11-30-2005, 01:50 PM

Yeah, whodi, that's getting into dissertation material

Points off turnovers can sometimes be a bit too kind to the defense. ie, Brooks throws a pick on the other team's 20...they go 80 yards on offense for a TD. Technically, that's points off of turnovers, but the D still gave up a long drive whether it was following a punt/pick/TD...whatever. The D failed in that case, regardless of how the opposing team got the ball.

To me, the points off turnovers where the D should get a pass are the ones where the turnover occurs on the defense's side of the field, thus, the other team only has to go 15 yards just to kick a FG. Maybe we could invent a stat: "points off of truly stinky turnovers".

I get your point...and you're right. I'm sure you see what I'm say as well. Sometimes POTO is a bit broad....like the fumble in the Giants game results in 7. That's a TD off of a stinky turnover. The pick Brooks threw to Brooking.....that results in points off of a stinky turnover.

Again, I'm trying to be kind because I don't want to give the impression that I view our D as the Motts...cuz they clearly are not

Maybe I'll get bored tonite and figure out where all of our TOs occured to see how many were truly "stinky turnovers" 8)

saintswhodi · 11-30-2005, 02:05 PM

I see perfectly well what you are saying, but if we go by LEAGUE rules, and what they call points off turnovers, then all turnovers that proceed points would be in that category. I see what you are saying though, but I think the fair way is to go by LEAGUE rules.

yasoon · 11-30-2005, 02:45 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the league rules always screw the Saints? I'm thinking of starting my own rules whereby we win a championship.....hardest team to follow. best uniforms. most looney owner. weirdest hair color for a head coach. most creative ways to lose. best fans. drunkest fans. most displaced fans. We dominate in all of these categories.

saintswhodi · 11-30-2005, 02:50 PM

We win all those hands down. lol But generally the Saints screw the Saints more than league rules do.

xan · 11-30-2005, 03:18 PM

yas, I'll save you the time, unless you want to verify, as I posted those stats in another thread.

17 of 27 turnovers occured in Saints territory, and all but one went for a score.

yasoon · 11-30-2005, 03:23 PM

17 of 27? very interesting xan. seems like alot.

one might make the leap of saying that makes life hard on a defense

i'll bet we were in the red zone for the other 10. God, we are masters of self destruction.

11-30-2005, 12:55 PM	#1
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Defensive Stats So, we've been slinging poo around here talking about how good/bad our D is. I went to nfl.com and looked at our scoring D and realized that it is much lower than I thought. Then, I realized that nfl.com does not calculate scoring D based on the points your D gave up...they use total points. We have given up 285 points for a 25.9 PPG average. (29th in the league...pretty stinky.) Now, the true scoring defense has you subtract all picks for TDs, blocked kick returns , QB running backwards for safeties, etc. So, that's minus the following: 14 (GB pick returns), 14 (Atl fumble/blocked kick), 2 (Miami safety...we should probably add the FG we gave up after ABs 25 yard loss before the half to give them a shot at the FG, but I digress.), 7 (Stl pick or whatever the hell it was). That's 22.5 points a game. Again, not good, but the way we turn the ball over, it's an uphill climb. We don't get enough turnovers to bail out the O...that's for sure. We give up lots of rushing yards...I know. The pass rush is not as good as it was or should be. But this D versus the D we trotted out the last 2 or three years is actually an improvement. Hell, this D would have gotten us 2-3 more wins a couple of years ago when we gave up 20+ every time out. We're keeping most opponents right around the 20 mark, either just below or just above. The Pack game and the Vike game are the 2 aberations...other than that, they have kept us in games. We have lost games where the D gave up 21 (stl...bad defense), 20 (atl...we got hosed), 17 (dolphins with a banged up D), 27 (giants appear to be for real), 24 (pats had a rotten pass D on the field and we couldn't break 20), 20 (the Bears are flat out nasty on D). So, as I have said many times this year....if the O shows up in these games (other than the Atl game where they looked very good and the bears game where 17 is a decent output), there are 3-4 more wins on our schedule. 6-5, 7-4? Not totally unrealistic with a little more help from the O. I can't put it down any clearer. The D, while average at best, has put in some efforts where we could have notched more wins with more offensive output. I put alot of this lack of output on our field general....good ole number 2. That is all.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

11-30-2005, 01:50 PM	#3
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Yeah, whodi, that's getting into dissertation material Points off turnovers can sometimes be a bit too kind to the defense. ie, Brooks throws a pick on the other team's 20...they go 80 yards on offense for a TD. Technically, that's points off of turnovers, but the D still gave up a long drive whether it was following a punt/pick/TD...whatever. The D failed in that case, regardless of how the opposing team got the ball. To me, the points off turnovers where the D should get a pass are the ones where the turnover occurs on the defense's side of the field, thus, the other team only has to go 15 yards just to kick a FG. Maybe we could invent a stat: "points off of truly stinky turnovers". I get your point...and you're right. I'm sure you see what I'm say as well. Sometimes POTO is a bit broad....like the fumble in the Giants game results in 7. That's a TD off of a stinky turnover. The pick Brooks threw to Brooking.....that results in points off of a stinky turnover. Again, I'm trying to be kind because I don't want to give the impression that I view our D as the Motts...cuz they clearly are not Maybe I'll get bored tonite and figure out where all of our TOs occured to see how many were truly "stinky turnovers" 8)
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

11-30-2005, 02:45 PM	#5
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the league rules always screw the Saints? I'm thinking of starting my own rules whereby we win a championship.....hardest team to follow. best uniforms. most looney owner. weirdest hair color for a head coach. most creative ways to lose. best fans. drunkest fans. most displaced fans. We dominate in all of these categories.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

11-30-2005, 03:23 PM	#8
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594	17 of 27? very interesting xan. seems like alot. one might make the leap of saying that makes life hard on a defense i'll bet we were in the red zone for the other 10. God, we are masters of self destruction.
yasoon 500th Post Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 594

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11-30-2005, 01:37 PM	#2
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I like your stats yas, but actually points off turnovers are calculated as any score following a turnover by the offense. So if the offense fumbles on the one, and the opposing team drives 99 yards for a score, that counts as points off turnovers. So if you want a true calculation, you have to account for every turnover that occured prior to the opposing team scoring, which as of about 2 games ago, was more than HALF of the points this team had given up. I think we are more in the teens as far as scoring defense if that is calculated. As ESPN said, it's not just points off for your team when your offense turns it over, it's a potential 14 point swing, as well as field position, etc. etc.

11-30-2005, 02:05 PM	#4
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	I see perfectly well what you are saying, but if we go by LEAGUE rules, and what they call points off turnovers, then all turnovers that proceed points would be in that category. I see what you are saying though, but I think the fair way is to go by LEAGUE rules.

11-30-2005, 02:50 PM	#6
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	We win all those hands down. lol But generally the Saints screw the Saints more than league rules do.

11-30-2005, 03:18 PM	#7
xan Professor Crab and Site Donor 2014 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Princeton Posts: 3,355 Blog Entries: 34	yas, I'll save you the time, unless you want to verify, as I posted those stats in another thread. 17 of 27 turnovers occured in Saints territory, and all but one went for a score.