I have to state the case for relocation.
 

I don't like bringing this to the attention of others, but not talking about it does not do it justice. These are the facts:

New Orleans is a small market by NFL standards, even before Katrina devastated the city.
Most of those who lived in NO prior to the storm have relocated to Baton Rouge, many intend to stay.
Baton Rouge is currently larger than NO, and by all analysts estimates, will remain permanently larger than NO.
Baton Rouge absorbed not only many of the former citizens of NO, but many of the businesses have relocated as well.
People and corporations are a major factor in the placement of NFL teams.
Geographically speaking, BR is the most centrally located city in the state.
The commisioner has adamently stated that he would like the Saints to remain in Louisiana, if possible.
The commisioner also stated that the team needed to better regionalize itself, which could include renaming the team to better represent the state.
If the team were to leave Louisiana, the prospects of receiving another team are slim, at best.
A state of the art stadium, financed by Louisiana taxpayers, is one of the major sticking points on whether or not the Saints will remain in the state.
Tiger stadium is indeed a state of the art facility already built and paid for by the taxpayers.


All of these leads me to believe that the team and the fans would be better off if the team were to relocate to Baton Rouge permanently. Thank you for hearing me out.

RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

.. fair enough...

... the only counter-point that I have, is the TV ratings experienced during the Colts-Pittsburgh game, with an estimated viewership of 11,930,000 million.

It wouldn't matter if they were the Houma Saints.. if they'd win games, people would watch, buy the shirt/hat/whatnot, and find a way to make it to the game. Advertising revenues would come from national sources, not just the city of New Orleans.

Gotta agree with that TR. Winning breeds fans. Sure, all of us are die hards, but you don't gain fans by losing all the time. We need some winning, that's all.

RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

I also disagree that the city won't rebound. I mean its a great port city and in due time the jobs will come and the rebuilding will happend, it may take years but it'll happen. The problem with taking the Saints out of New Orleans is that an NFL team will never return to New Orleans. I see it there is only two options, NFL forces Benson to keep the Saints there, and or force him to sale to Terry Bradshaw.

RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

well i think you all live in a dream world. why do you think we are never mentioned even when we are winning. i know it hasn't been in some time but man when we were making he playoffs year in and year out in the 80's i tryed to get some saints gear up in jersey. couldn't find it. they had the jets though. remind you this is south jersey. south jersey aren't jest or giants fans. and this was a year the jets wen't like 3-13. i don't want to se the saints leave new orleans and in my opinion the city will rebuild. i don't think it is possible it won't. but how quickly is the question. i think that is the one to be answered and i think the real answer is to long for the saints. oh and just in case i didn't remember to say fukkk nagin.

RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

There's always an argument against doing anything. The key in making yourself successful is getting in at the bottom and riding the wave to the top. There's a serious price to pay for getting in at the top of the market...

My guess is that the NFL will want a "relocation fee" from the team if it decides to move to another market, just as they got the fee from the Houston syndicate for the franchise. Opportunity cost of bringing in another franchise vs. relocation. The Houston syndicate paid over $700 million to the current owners to buy in, and my guess is that LA would be about $1Billion. Benson's going to have to argue that his team's gonna bring in that much to the existing ownership to justify the move there. As for SA, he's got to get public money, and that's not going to happen. If the Saints go to Baton Rouge, so what? People drive that far to get fried catfish. They're still the Saints.

Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

.. I think you are stretching it a little, buddy :)

"The 80's" was basically 87-90. You probably couldn't find Saints gear in New Jersey, but you probably could find 40Whiners gear.... and after the 40Whiners in th eearly 90's, Cowboys gear...

RE: Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

Which is totally relevant if you ignore the fact that they get the BEST subsidy of any team in the league which keeps them in the top 10 in revenue year in and year out.

Sure - which again is relevant if you ignore the fact that eventually sweet deals will be given for economic development (see Trump buying everything in NO), new infrastructure will be developed, and the fact that prime real estate in and aroung the CBD will not be left idle... oh, and the fact that the truly important parts of the city like the Garden District, Uptown, Metairie, etc. were minimally affected by the storm - comparatively speaking.

LMAO. All analyst estimates? LMAO. Name one. I guess this is relevant if you don't count any of the surrounding parishes - especially Jefferson. In 3 to 5 years, New Orleans will be LARGER than it was before the storm, and Baton Rouge will go back to being LSU... and oh yeah, the capital...

Which is relevant if you ignore the fact that there are fewer major rail and road thoroughfares, and most importantly, it's missing that one little thing. What's that? Oh yeah - the busiest port in the nation which cycles through 60% of the country's aggricultural product.

State of the Art? If by old, not NFL-caliber, and completely insufficient for NFL standards - sure I agree.

Sure. Tagliabue said no small markets to San Antonio, but he'd be really excited to move the team to about the 135th largest market in the country.

Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

Saints are mentioned all the time... they get even more attention when they are winning. This year alone they have been in the media one of the most years of any even (hurricane). I was in the military for many years and I will tell you I moved a lot and even I had found problems getting stuff, but I asked the owners of the store and they would order stuff or let me know that they order stuff for there store because that area demands those items duh... they also try and predict which teams make the playoffs and stock some of those items... you have to admit betting on the Saints isn't a safe bet ANY YEAR. In recent years though I have found Saints stuff in VA, DC, NY, FLA, Bahrain, Kuwait, and even in San Diego CA.
You can build millions of homes and buildings but ya need a population to be in them... the proplem here is that there are many people who have found a better life for themselves out side of New Orleans now, for some the Hurricane was a blessing in discuise, so the bebuilding is going to take many years fighting a double edge sword, buildings/jobs, and population.

RE: Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

I read an analysis somewhat recently as to the popularity of NFL gear. It seems that after affiliation, fans buy gear that they can wear with many outfits. Black dominant teams seem to sell more than any other color, and the Saints sell way above what you would expect for the fan base. Oakland is #1 then the Saints.

The economic base of New Orleans is:
#1 Tourism (including hotels and restaurants)
#2 Oil and Gas services
#3 Port
#4 Health Care
#5 Education
#6 Legal (5th Circuit Court of Appeals, maritime, etc.)

Which of these exactly are going to relocate to Baton Rouge?? Don't bull**** a bull****ter.

RE: Re: RE: I have to state the case for relocation.
 

I forgot to mention that New Orleans was the recipient of a huge federal subsidy for social services due to our egregiously large welfare squatter system. Those money will definitely be going elsewhere, and probably to Baton Rouge with all those fun folk.

Euph, not trying to be a dick, but the Saints do not get much media attention. Even the Katrina thing has just become something to mention during the 2 minute highlight package, not a feature the Saints thing. The love from that died about when the Giants got a bum on heroin to paint "Saints" in the endzone at the meadowlands.

In all seriousness....one of the things that tells me the writing may be on the wall IS the merch.

A few weeks ago, the NFL released some new hats/shirts. I think 24 teams were represented....the Saints weren't one of them.

There is a nice fan store by me up here in Alpharetta, GA. Loaded with cool stuff...shirts/jerseys/trashcans/mini helmets/huggers/hats. Over the past few years, they've always had a couple of Saints hats/ a Deuce jersey/ an AB jersey/ that Jim Everett throwback that nobody wants/ Saints shirts/ sweats/ etc. I was in there the other day and the ONLY thing in the entire store other than maybe a cofee mug, was a five dollar pennant. I would say the Saints merch in that store has been reduced SIGNIFICANTLY. I know its falcons country, but there is a very considerable change in the availability of Saints merch.

The whole America's team thing died FAST. I think the NFL has limited the availability of Saints stuff. Even recently, the NFL did a commercial of team vehicles. INDY had a blue firetruck...very nice. I told my wife as the cars were passing by that there would not be a Saints car. Well, there was....it was a dirty bronco with 'GEAUX SAINTS' written in 'WASH ME' fashion on the back window. Seriously, marketing messages subtley tell you alot. I think ours is pointing to a rebrand...LA EARTHQUAKES :(

The Saints aren't responsible for the amount of merchandise that is produced - you realize that, right? They can control merchandising only by limiting the use of their trademarks (mainly their name and logo). However, I believe that their licensing agreement with the NFL allows the NFL full access as well.

If there's less Saints gear this year its most likely for one of two reasons. 1) You Gotta Have Faith just doesn't seem right after the worst natural disaster destroyed the team's hometown and the owner is now trying to leave. 2) The league is funnelling marketing efforts to KATRINA relief, not the team.

the reason they aren't in sores is not because the NFL doesn't put them in stores... HELLO... its because the private owners of the stores don't buy them and stock them in the store... WHY... its because NO ONE IS THERE BUYING THEM!!! If you owned a resturant and no one was buying ham and eggs, you would eventually take it off the minute and sale pizza if thats what everyone wanted. Go to your local Hooters and watch what people are wearing... here in San Diego you'll see tons of chargers (expected), 3 Saints, 20 cowboys, 12 Redskins, 14 packers, 20 plus Steelers, 14 Patriots, 8 Jets, 10 Giants... Lets see what am I going to put on my shelves and sale, hmmm I wonder.

I saw saints in the media already today...

You and your "Hello" crap. I can't have a civilized discussion when you are involved. Thanks for your ham and eggs analogy, gomer. I aced every economics class I ever took....I don't need you to give me supply and demand for dummies. I'll give you a damn spelling lesson on every post from here on out.

Did you read what I said? I have lived in Alpharetta Georgia for almost 4 years. Every single season, I have been able to go to this specific store and go through a nice selection of Saints stuff. The store has remained unchanged, with the same ownership and the same exact types of merch for all teams other than the saints. So, your retort is completely unnecessary. The amount of Saints merch in the Atlanta area this year is waaaay less than it has been in years past. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH? It appears, from my experience, that based on past years, the amount of Saints merch on the market is dead in the water.

Yes....I realize that. My point is that, most years there are merchandising efforts associated with kickoff. New shirts. New hats...etc. This year, the only thing available out of the gate was the faith shirt. And now the "be a saint" tshirt. Which seems Katrina related. There seems to be less Saints merch available in '05. Maybe I'm wrong....I'm just saying this based on my personal view of the world. I am just postulating that maybe there would be a scale down if the the back office meetings start leaning toward the phasing out of the New Orleans Saints

Suddenly, they are media darlings huh? That's hilarious.

Watch an SI commercial where they offer a fan sweatshirt. Watch a sunday ticket commercial. Show me a sportscenter that leads with the Saints. Show me any NFL marketing effort with any sort of Saints reference. Even before this year. I realize some of this is supply and demand....Steelers stuff, packers stuff, Vick stuff, Cowboys stuff....it's all everywhere because it sells. But, I thought the NFL might try to push Saints stuff a bit harder with the whole America's team thing. My point is that there was new merch put out a few weeks back...I went to nfl shop and the Saints were one of 6-8 teams that the new stuff was not released for. Does that come from being in a smaller market? Maybe....I don't know.

I don't want to get into the middle of this discussion, but to come back to the point, I don't think Baton Rouge will become the center of the state. I don't see it becoming a bustling hub and I see the government of this state hussling to put New Orleans back together right now. It's all the governor talks about because there's a windfall in the budget and they don't want to go bankrupt. I don't think they estimate Baton Rouge will fill the hole in the budget if New Orleans doesn't come back soon.

Let's face it, New Orleans is the cash cow. The money from travel and tourism paves the roads of this state, the state collects the money. It comes up with so much they are able to cut a check to Tom Benson for $15 at the end of the year. And don't tell me the money isn't there and they have to pool it from economic development - the economic development money came from the travel and tourism tax in New Orleans anyway. There are so many slush funds politicians have it stinks and they take from that very pot.

I'll ask this to everyone on this thread, when was the last time you've been to New Orleans? I was there yesterday and I'm going again tomorrow. I've spent several weekends there and to be honest, don't believe the hype. The place is coming back online faster than you think. The French Quarter is growing day by day and is practically back in business. Uptown is completely being renovated and all you hear are hammers and construction because most of Lakeview is moving there, they are gobbling up the neighborhoods. I've never seen so many State Police and patrols in the City in my entire life. The National Guard parked Hum-V's up and down St. Charles avenue last weekend.

If you don't drive out to New Orleans East it kinda looks the same. The trains are running in New Orleans and I think the estimates of how many people would stay in Baton Rouge at first were overestimated. I heard on WJBO in Baton Rouge last Thursday an LSU economist saying that over the next 5 years the results of Katrina on the Baton Rouge populated area would be between 17 and 20k new residents. The place is overloaded and people are heading back to Jefferson and Orleans fast.

All I see now are for sale signs and for lease signs. That's what I see.

I saw some figures of the population of New Orleans before Katrina and now and its not promising short term wise, I think and its only my opinion for NO to reach those levels again its going to take some time. I love to hear that the rebuilding and stuff going on that will only help the economy and when the economy is moving, so is jobs, and people will go where the work is.

Personally, I would rather the Saints return to NO to help return the city to its former promenance. However, economically speaking I do not know if it will be feasible from a league standpoint. At the very least though, if the Saints indeed return permenantly to New Orleans, I believe changing the name to the "Louisiana Saints" would be a great move from a public relations standpoint. A portion of every dollar the people across this entire state earns goes toward the team, and I believe that people would be more willing to stand by the team if the name better represented those who help to fund it existence within the state. Thank you for your comments. It's nice to have a good discussion.

The team won't lose money for being in New Orleans, they just won't add to the great profits the NFL as a whole generates. It will be difficult to put butts in seats... filling the dome isn't going to be that easy... the sooner the damn team starts winning the easier it'll be though

I hate to tell you guys this, but no one wants to go to Louisiana. People do want to go to New Orleans. From a "marketing perspective" New Orleans is far better nation-wide. In the region - who cares? Anybody not going to go to the game or support the team b/c the name is New Orleans and not Louisiana can kiss my a$$. LOL

True, New Orleans is well travelled by tourist, but no one goes to New Orleans to watch a Saints games either. You have to market the team to those who live within the region. Those are the people who will buy the tickets, not people flying in from NY, LA, France, etc. I say if the entire state has to pay the subsidee to keep the team in Louisiana, then the team should bare that name. All I'm saying is that people statewide would take more pride in the team if the name better represented them.

Waiter! Can I have a minute?

Sure, sir, let me know when you are ready...

But I need a minute now!!!

Ok, sir. Take your time...

Are you deaf?!!? I said I want to see the minute!!!!!!

Hold on, sir... we do have a dwarf waiter.... I'll bring him right over....

Who's on first...

The only people not likely to come back are the 130,000 welfare squatters who are getting better handouts in Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles and other big cities (where, not surprisingly, the crime rate has increased dramatically). They weren't the ones filling the stands to begin with, so who cares if they come back? The fan base isn't going anywhere, it is already in New Orleans and the surrounding area. I don't really understand why having a large instututionalized underclass is important for the Saints to return to New Orleans?

And don't think you won't see some of those federal monies allocated to the non-existant welfare population. Somebody in BR has already diverted it to the Caymans.

..don't mess with my tutu... :)

..man.. talk about contributing to a thread :)

Take that man's keys.

..like my grandpa used to say, if you don't have anything nice to say, make fun of others.. :beer: