Times Picayune article

spkb25 · 01-14-2006, 04:48 PM

i agree with you on that pak.

TheDeuce · 01-14-2006, 04:51 PM

pak who is the last running qb to win the supybowl

Exactly. Running QBs just don't win. You have to be an elite passer in the NFL, and Young just isn't right now. He's definitely a few years from being able to start. He might develop into a good passer, but I see Michael Vick who was 25th in passer rating this year, Donovan was 16th, Anthony Wright was 30th, and AB was 32nd. Runners just don't usually do as well, that's just how it is. Look at the top 10 guys in passer rating:

Peyton, Carson Palmer, Big Ben, Hasselbeck, Bulger, Brady, Jake Plummer, Trent Green, Byron Leftwich, and Drew Brees. For the majority, none of these guys can run. They are pocket passers, just like Leinart. (Leftwich and Plummer are decent runners, but their arms are the best parts of their games). Give me the pocket passer. He might not be able to create on the ground, but they win games. Look at those guys' teams.

Peyton's Colts, playoffs
Carson's Bengals, playoffs
Big Ben's Steelers, playoffs
Hasselbeck's Seahawks, playoffs
Brady's Patriots, playoffs
Plummer's Broncos, playoffs
Leftwich's Jags, playoffs
Vick's Falcons, 3rd in the South, no playoffs
AB's Saints, 4th in the South, no playoffs
Wright's Ravens (He played half a season), no playoffs

Notice a trend? Pocket passers win. Runners, although exciting, don't (with the exception of McNabb who is a better passer than a runner).

Winwin · 01-14-2006, 04:53 PM

You're right about Reggie Bush. UT didn't have any 5-star skill players besides a busted TE prospect in 2003 (Tony Hills Jr.) However, LenDale White was a 4-star player. So was Jamaal Charles and Ramonce Taylor.

UT = 2 4-star RBs
USC = 1 4-star RB, 1 5-star RB

why are you talking about stars to me? lendale white rb, will go in the top 15 picks. reggie bush rb, will go within first 2 picks. that's 3 picks in the top 15 of the entire nfl draft. what did texas have on the field that night that equaled that? not including the offensive lineman that usc will send that are top 20 pick.

TheDeuce · 01-14-2006, 04:54 PM

The difference is nill between these players stats and if Young did throw 106 more passes would his Int to pass completion ratio be about the same as Leinart's, I think so.

How do you figure? Leinart threw an interception every 53.875 passes. Young threw an interception every 32.5 passes. That's called math. And it's a huge difference. If the trend continued, and he threw 106 more passes like you say, then he would have thrown 3 more interceptions, giving him a total of 13. 13 interceptions for Young, 8 for Leinart, if you wanna do the math.

spkb25 · 01-14-2006, 04:55 PM

well mcnabb ran less last year then any year of his career. i am talking about the year they wen't to the superbowl. that was also his best season. this year he was hurt, but he like mcnair has made the transition in my opinion

pakowitz · 01-14-2006, 04:57 PM

the whole thing is everyone faults VY for being a great runner... if he couldnt run ie leinert we wouldnt be discussing this....just b/c he runs everyone thinks he wont be a good qb and i dont see it that way...

spkb25 · 01-14-2006, 05:00 PM

well you have a point pak but the fact is the guy nearly ran for what 300 yards in the rose bowl. that pretty much says running qb to me. but at least he is a big frigan dude. if he can throw the ball and be accurate then i think he will be a very good qb kinda like culpepper. i just like the old fashion pocket passer. find them to be the best the league has to offer at qb. just my opinion.

Winwin · 01-14-2006, 05:01 PM

the whole thing is everyone faults VY for being a great runner... if he couldnt run ie leinert we wouldnt be discussing this....just b/c he runs everyone thinks he wont be a good qb and i dont see it that way...

pak, you are fighting a losing battle. some here agree with you, lienart has bust written all over him. too many times we have seen qb's in college play with other great all star college players around them, these college qb's go on to the nfl and the real world comes crashing down ie, gino toretta, danny wurffel, heath schuller etc.

pakowitz · 01-14-2006, 05:02 PM

well if they just let him run all over... take it.... whats the point of trying to force a pass when there is no one watchin where u gonna run to...

Winwin · 01-14-2006, 05:04 PM

well you have a point pak but the fact is the guy nearly ran for what 300 yards in the rose bowl. that pretty much says running qb to me. but at least he is a big frigan dude. if he can throw the ball and be accurate then i think he will be a very good qb kinda like culpepper. i just like the old fashion pocket passer. find them to be the best the league has to offer at qb. just my opinion.

ie, john elway and steve young. i didn't see a running qb on the national championship game. i saw a qb for texas, that when they attempt to take away the run from him, he passed. and when they attempted to take away the pass from him he ran. what part of that is a strictly running qb? that's john elway- steve young ish chit,.

01-14-2006, 04:51 PM	#62
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	pak who is the last running qb to win the supybowl Exactly. Running QBs just don't win. You have to be an elite passer in the NFL, and Young just isn't right now. He's definitely a few years from being able to start. He might develop into a good passer, but I see Michael Vick who was 25th in passer rating this year, Donovan was 16th, Anthony Wright was 30th, and AB was 32nd. Runners just don't usually do as well, that's just how it is. Look at the top 10 guys in passer rating: Peyton, Carson Palmer, Big Ben, Hasselbeck, Bulger, Brady, Jake Plummer, Trent Green, Byron Leftwich, and Drew Brees. For the majority, none of these guys can run. They are pocket passers, just like Leinart. (Leftwich and Plummer are decent runners, but their arms are the best parts of their games). Give me the pocket passer. He might not be able to create on the ground, but they win games. Look at those guys' teams. Peyton's Colts, playoffs Carson's Bengals, playoffs Big Ben's Steelers, playoffs Hasselbeck's Seahawks, playoffs Brady's Patriots, playoffs Plummer's Broncos, playoffs Leftwich's Jags, playoffs Vick's Falcons, 3rd in the South, no playoffs AB's Saints, 4th in the South, no playoffs Wright's Ravens (He played half a season), no playoffs Notice a trend? Pocket passers win. Runners, although exciting, don't (with the exception of McNabb who is a better passer than a runner).
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-14-2006, 04:53 PM	#63
Winwin 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 332	You're right about Reggie Bush. UT didn't have any 5-star skill players besides a busted TE prospect in 2003 (Tony Hills Jr.) However, LenDale White was a 4-star player. So was Jamaal Charles and Ramonce Taylor. UT = 2 4-star RBs USC = 1 4-star RB, 1 5-star RB why are you talking about stars to me? lendale white rb, will go in the top 15 picks. reggie bush rb, will go within first 2 picks. that's 3 picks in the top 15 of the entire nfl draft. what did texas have on the field that night that equaled that? not including the offensive lineman that usc will send that are top 20 pick.
Winwin 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 332

01-14-2006, 04:54 PM	#64
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	The difference is nill between these players stats and if Young did throw 106 more passes would his Int to pass completion ratio be about the same as Leinart's, I think so. How do you figure? Leinart threw an interception every 53.875 passes. Young threw an interception every 32.5 passes. That's called math. And it's a huge difference. If the trend continued, and he threw 106 more passes like you say, then he would have thrown 3 more interceptions, giving him a total of 13. 13 interceptions for Young, 8 for Leinart, if you wanna do the math.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

01-14-2006, 05:01 PM	#68
Winwin 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 332	the whole thing is everyone faults VY for being a great runner... if he couldnt run ie leinert we wouldnt be discussing this....just b/c he runs everyone thinks he wont be a good qb and i dont see it that way... pak, you are fighting a losing battle. some here agree with you, lienart has bust written all over him. too many times we have seen qb's in college play with other great all star college players around them, these college qb's go on to the nfl and the real world comes crashing down ie, gino toretta, danny wurffel, heath schuller etc.
Winwin 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 332

01-14-2006, 05:04 PM	#70
Winwin 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 332	well you have a point pak but the fact is the guy nearly ran for what 300 yards in the rose bowl. that pretty much says running qb to me. but at least he is a big frigan dude. if he can throw the ball and be accurate then i think he will be a very good qb kinda like culpepper. i just like the old fashion pocket passer. find them to be the best the league has to offer at qb. just my opinion. ie, john elway and steve young. i didn't see a running qb on the national championship game. i saw a qb for texas, that when they attempt to take away the run from him, he passed. and when they attempted to take away the pass from him he ran. what part of that is a strictly running qb? that's john elway- steve young ish chit,.
Winwin 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 332

01-14-2006, 04:48 PM	#61
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	i agree with you on that pak.

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01-14-2006, 04:55 PM	#65
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	well mcnabb ran less last year then any year of his career. i am talking about the year they wen't to the superbowl. that was also his best season. this year he was hurt, but he like mcnair has made the transition in my opinion

01-14-2006, 04:57 PM	#66
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	the whole thing is everyone faults VY for being a great runner... if he couldnt run ie leinert we wouldnt be discussing this....just b/c he runs everyone thinks he wont be a good qb and i dont see it that way...

01-14-2006, 05:00 PM	#67
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	well you have a point pak but the fact is the guy nearly ran for what 300 yards in the rose bowl. that pretty much says running qb to me. but at least he is a big frigan dude. if he can throw the ball and be accurate then i think he will be a very good qb kinda like culpepper. i just like the old fashion pocket passer. find them to be the best the league has to offer at qb. just my opinion.

01-14-2006, 05:02 PM	#69
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	well if they just let him run all over... take it.... whats the point of trying to force a pass when there is no one watchin where u gonna run to...