Times Picayune article
 

Here:

Snagging Bush/Young right move for Saints
Friday, January 13, 2006
John DeShazier
Even before Reggie Bush officially joined the fray Thursday, the Saints were in good position. Now that Bush definitely is in, they might be pretty close to no-lose territory.

Granted, there's no such animal as a "sure" thing when it comes to the NFL draft, or any other draft. Every pick has a warning label attached, and every label had better be thoroughly investigated before a franchise invests its time and money.

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But if there are two superstar-potential prizes in the draft -- Southern California running back Bush and Texas quarterback Vince Young -- all the Saints have to do is stand pat with the No. 2 overall pick, and one of the mega-talents falls into their lap. And, at present, each would be a welcome, needed addition.

Even with Deuce McAllister being the Saints' franchise back, having received the richest contract in team history before last season, he'll enter the 2006 season with a reconstructed ACL.

Usually, it takes a couple of seasons before a player resembles his former self after that repair and rehab. But even if McAllister beats the curve, Bush is versatile enough to be used so many ways -- punt and kick returner, slot receiver, third-down back or, like similarly smallish Warrick Dunn of the Falcons, every-down back -- he'll be worth the pick. Especially since he'd be one of the few Saints who can create magic on his own, a legitimate home run threat on a team full of singles hitters.

Select Young, and the new era at quarterback begins. Maybe he's not as polished as USC quarterback Matt Leinart, who led the Trojans to two national titles and three championship games. But he was polished enough to help Texas deny the Trojans a third straight title and to lead the nation in passing efficiency.

And he's as dynamic a playmaker as there is out of the pocket, which is where a Saints quarterback will spend plenty of time if the team doesn't upgrade the offensive line or the new coaching staff doesn't teach the players it has to block a hell of a lot better.

So, yeah, the Saints figure to get something good at No. 2, even if they choose Leinart instead of Bush or Young.

If, that is, they hold on to the pick.

There's always the possibility that they won't.

Trading down, in an attempt to get away from having to ante up a huge signing bonus or in an effort to acquire more picks and more talent, is a viable option for a team that might not be flush with capital and has more on-field holes (quarterback, unless Aaron Brooks can be resurrected by the new regime, running back if McAllister isn't the same, offensive line, tight end, linebacker and maybe cornerback) than it might care to admit.

The in-house mantra that the Saints weren't a 3-13 team last season, as if the team is a skip and hop from where it wants to be, is a book of fiction that has to be closed if the franchise really plans to address its problems. Otherwise, it could trick itself (again) into believing a paintbrush will do where a sledgehammer is needed.

More picks could be the way to go, especially if the franchise somehow can attend to its other needs through free agency, especially if it transforms those extra picks into starters or significant contributors.

But it wouldn't hurt to stay put, either, considering the pot of gold that it could find by holding steady.

Bush and Young are difference-makers, the likes of which the Saints haven't employed for a while, if ever. They're threats whose presence might guarantee special attention, and if opponents are forced to devise schemes to contain one player, that means there'll be openings for someone else.

It's the kind of threat the Saints need. The kind they'll have simply by doing nothing, holding steady, and picking whichever of the two potential stars falls into their lap.

RE: Times Picayune article
 

Yeah I am thinking Texas maybe setting the stage for them to trade down. Possible to trade with NO!!! Saying they will take Bush is like saying hey if you want him you're going to have to deal with us. I also think the best choice for us right now is Bush to add another dimension to our O and then work on the line and D. If not this time next year we'll all be hear saying its time to move on from Deuce. The two RB system that has worked well in Denver and USC. Also help take some of the carries off of Deuce because the rate we are going with him, he won't be around to much longer.

RE: Times Picayune article
 

Na texans will draft bush he is there guy... I dont think they will trade the pick if they do it will not be with the saints The saints have no need for a RB we just resigned deuce to a huge deal and we cant give up on him yet.... Let him get better in about a year then we start asking questions... Saints to get a QB LB DT CB in the draft that why they could trade down and take the stud linebacker A.J. Hawk but look at what we really need we need someone to run the offence be a leader of this team we need Matt Leinart he is proven a winner. Many ppl think he is a bust but, we will just have to see....

I wonder if Indy should have given up on Edge James? Or maybe they should have wasted a bunch of early picks on RBs to replace him. :roll:

I'd rather let Leinart prove he is a bust somewheres else... Young I'll take my chances on, he is better at winning...

Better at winning than 34 straight games, second longest streak in NCAA history? This has to be a joke.

If you are that great then you should pull off a win... in YOUR LAST BIG COLLEGE GAME.

You don't always win just because it is the last big game of the year. Sometimes there are other factors that influence a games outcome. Matt Lienert is a proven winner and a hell of a lot more polished that Vince Young. Matt Lienert has more of a chance of success in the NFL this year than any of the other QBs. Vince Young will probably be good someday not not this year or the next for that matter.

blah blah... when a QB can single handedly put the game on his shoulders and win, that is special. Great players don't choose when to be great, ya just are. Young is the right choice here. Young will be able to win us games just on talent until he becomes 'more polish'. We have a lot of areas to improve before we are a winning play, you pick this guy. Young even has a better QB rating.

Leinart 157
Young 163.7

Yup, like I thought, a joke. :roll:

I'd say the odds of Young becoming Polish are low. Although, it would be cool to see Vince pump the team up with a Polka. :pink:

whodi,
it is obvious that we cannot listen to a guy who thinks jason craft deserves a fan club. euphoria is a great judge of talent. hahahahaaha

You obviously don't know what I have said about craft and you can't line him up against a teams number 1WR on an island... I can't help the coaches don't know how to play there players and he lead the team in INT's.

huh jason crapt, he still around we should hav cut him after the afternoon practice, we need a player that can fill the stands and generate league wide interest....thats vy. i like x-citing football and ill be jon brown if he aint x-citing.....woohaaa!

I tried to tell people that, when he said Leinart lost against UT, and Bush didn't.

jason craft is a joke. there is a reason why jacksonville didn't hang on to him.

With all due respect, I guess, by your definition, Peyton Manning is not a great QB, because if memory serves correctly, he lost his last big college game to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.

Now just stop that!! Stop making posts that make sense! :P

When did I ever say Manning or Leinart is not a great QB... NEVER did I say Leinart isn't a great college QB. We stand a better chance at winning a SB with less talent around Young than Leinart.

If I had to see who will be a bust, I'd rather take my chances with Young in NO than Leinart.

Leaf or Manning... you go with Manning. Leinart or Young you go wtih Young.

Yeah, and I think we also tried to mention that when Euph was saying that Young BEAT Leinart in the Rose Bowl. Young beat a bad defense, Leinart beat the second best defense in the country. Sure Euph...
So 365 yards and a touchdown with a 72.5% completion rate against the #2 defense in the country isn't great? Completing 13 straight passes in the second half when it was crunchtime wasn't great? Winning 34 straight games wasn't great? Winning a national championship 55-19 isn't great? Get a clue

My ass hurts after reading this thread... I wonder why. :moon: :hump:

I thought about it and I want Young in N.O next season, I think he would really help us getting the offense going

i feel that we should take vince young, didn't ya see that last play of the rose bowl when leinart let the clock run down by scrambling just think if that was the super bowl and the saints were in it and he did some stupid **** like that, then people would start changing their minds. i think leinart is going to be a bust anyway cause he had all that talent in USC and answer this question: DO THE SAINTS HAVE ENOUGH TALENT FOR HIM TO WIN!!!

"DO THE SAINTS HAVE ENOUGH TALENT FOR HIM TO WIN!!!"
I think the Saints has the offense to win with a good quailty qb behind center, maybe a little help here and there but over all we're ok, I think the Saints need to address the problem with the qb problem first and then go from there.

All i know is that i hear John Clayton and Mel Kiper say every week that any team would be absolutely lucky to have Reggie Bush on their team. They didn't say just teams without a stud running back.

With the performance Simms gave last year, Griese will be a solid vet we need to strongly consider if we want to even think playoffs next year assuming he's going to be cut of course (he will with his 7 million dollar salary next year). Rattay would be a nice backup plan. Let Leinart or whomever comes in here learn for a year or so... they can familiarize themself with the system and adjust to the NFL's fast pace all while we can remain a competitive NFL franchise.

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone on this thread missed the obvious trade down and take many more pieces to the puzzle aspect of the article.

You guys bore me, you've substitued the Jake vs. AB debate for the VY vs Lie debate. Get a damn life.

Xan there are many people here that support the trade down scenario, myself included. Most of them aren't posting on this thread.

However the most likely scenario is if our new coach is Sean Payton(Dallas QB coach), they will be chomping at the bit to get their hands on Leinart.

Bottom line is what is it that u want right now? Leinart is more ready to play right now than VY is and has a better grasp on the game, but VY is the better athlete, is more dynamic and has more upside. Leinart is the safer pick and almost certainly will be good in time. Young is much more of a gamble but has the potential to be a much better pro if he gets in the right system.

Trade down 2 spots get Hawk and pick up 3 or 4 picks and maybe even a veteran QB take the best QB available witht the next pick at 34. Here we are GT. THE TRADEDOWNERS.

Did anyone one see how quick VY bailed from the pocket. He never was under center why? I think he needs the extra time mentally to see what the D is doing, sorry. How about all those great passes he thew? It is a shame those recievers seem to take a knee or come to a complete stop catching so many of them. Alot of the time they were wide open. Sure VY can run, but can we run an offense that is all shootgun? I thought that was already tried. To me i see a bigger and quicker version of AB, and niether can/or will be able to handle the mental part of game that well.
This is for Xan: "A man who does not Know his own history is DOOMED TO REPEAT IT".

mmm. History. You mean that something happened in the past? Great concept. What history do I seem not to recognize? The history of gaping holes in the defensive and offensive lines or no quality linebackers for over 10 years or no quality corners? There are more busts at qb in the first round than there are success stories over the course of history, is that what you're referring to? How about the history of picks under Benson?

Don't attempt to reprimand me with vague, trite aphorisms, you toad. Either bring it or keep it in your kindegarten.

Meanies. :pokechop:

soooo true euphor, young is special. that's why he was awarded the manning award for best college qb. "gee" lienart didn't win over vince there either. since regardless of which qb you would take, neither would be able to start from day 1, they'd both sit or should sit for a entire year. i'd take my chances with vince he's the less likely to be the bust. face it you can't judge anything lienart did in college, simply because of whom he lined up with. he played on a allstar team for 4 years, the likes he won't have with his nfl team.

could a allstar college team make a average are below average qb look better than he really is? yep! vince brought his team to a new level, lienart didn't.

Leinart did throw for almost 350 yds against a pretty good Texas defense. Not to mention he has been in a pro style offense. I would not be disappointed in Young either if we take him. He would fill the stands. Especially vs. Vick. Drafting a QB is always a crap shoot. They both have a lot of intangibles and both have their faults. I think a lot of it is gonna depend on the coach and the supporting cast we give them. I am just excited to see a draft that it will be very hard for the bean counter to screw up. We should still be able to get a top notch LB as well.

yeah, lienart threw for 350 yards with what type of supporting cast? ya'll keep trying to sway away from the truth. keep mentioning how texas had a good defense, mention how lienart has play with a allstar supporting cast better than at least 30 nfl teams.

lienart can't be really judged because of whom he played along side of, throwing for 350 yards with jerry rice at wr and barry sanders at rb is a whole world different than having the likes of rod gardner at wr and pittman at rb.

lienart has bust written all over him no matter how you try and sugar coat it.

winwin,
you are almost as bad as euphoria with your football facts.

best college qb does not mean who will be the best nfl qb.

young didn't beat leinhart...texas beat usc.

young or leinart could start this year. young could start and use his feet to get himself out of trouble. leinart has already played in a pro-style offense where he called plays and audibled at the line of scrimmage. he could manage an offense, but i wouldn't expect either to go out and try to win games by themselves their first year.

leinart did play on the most talented offense in college last year. besides carson palmer i cannot think of a usc offensive player who has had a big impact in the nfl from the past 3 years. maybe leinart is making some of the players on his team appear to be better than they are. yes a qb can do this just look at brady in new england or manning in indy. there are wrs on both teams that these quarterbacks make appear to be better than they really are.

What evidence, proof, or statistics do you have to support this claim? None? That's right. I hope nobody on this board listens to anything you say anymore.

According to Rivals.com, the most prestigious college recruiting website, Dwayne Jarrett, Steve Smith, and Dominique Byrd were all four-star players. Of course Reggie Bush was five-stars. So yeah, Leinart had some talent around him. But the balls didn't throw themselves to these players. The balls didn't run great play-action by itself and then strike wide open receivers. Leinart was the one who was threading the ball in there every game. He was the one taking advantage of his talent, not wasting it like a lot of quarterbacks do (AB). You can't discredit Leinart for having good players around him. Maybe those guys wanted to go to USC because they wanted to play with such a great QB. The point is tho, Leinart made the best of his situation, so what else did you want him to do? This is a lose-lose situation you guys are putting Leinart in here. If he had lost with all of that talent, you would say, "What kind of loser can't even win with that talent?" But when he wins 34 straight games and 1 (or 2) national championsip(s), you say, "Well of course he won, look at all that talent he had." Maybe you guys are jealous, but I just don't think you can judge talent. The guy took advantage of the talent around him, made them play better, he got better, and they were on top of college football for 3 years. What about Florida State? They had top 5 recruiting classes 4 out of the last 5 years, but they haven't been in the running for a national championship any of those years. Why? Because their QBs haven't taken advantage of the talent around them. Come on guys, your biased and unproven statements are just ignorant and annoying...

But if you want to continue the talent argument...

2002- USC ranked 13th nationally, UT ranked #1
2003- USC ranked #3, UT ranked 16th
2004- USC ranked #1 nationally, UT ranked #10

So how is there that much disparity between the talent that you keep talking about? UT had two top 10 classes, USC had two top 10 classes. Both had 1 year where they were the #1 recruiting class in the nation. So if you wanna argue talent-wise.... VY had just as good of talent, but Leinart played better with his talent, and made USC's players better.

O, I almost forgot to talk about Texas' skill players talent. UT's top 3 receivers: Billy Pittman, David Thomas, and Limas Sweed were all 4-star players... just like USC's top 3 receivers Jarrett, Steve Smith, and Dominique Byrd.

This is ridiculous, can somebody please delete this guy's account? He's just trying to antagonize people.

this is an opinion board pal, if you don't like mine then simply don't read nor respond.

now tell me, what player on texas's team is equal to the likes of lendale white and reggie bush.