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Linebackers can be busts also...

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; So many of you are picking apart Leinart and VY because in the past there have been qb†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s selected high in the draft that have wound up being busts. I also couldnââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢t stand reading these posts about how ...

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Old 01-17-2006, 07:53 PM   #1
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Linebackers can be busts also...

So many of you are picking apart Leinart and VY because in the past there have been qb†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s selected high in the draft that have wound up being busts. I also couldnââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢t stand reading these posts about how great Hawk is and how half the people on this website think he†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s the second coming of Lawrence Taylor. Since 1982, 17 linebackers been taken in the top 5 of the draft. Of those 17, 3 of them were worth more than the dirt I walk on. Carl Banks in ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬à ‹Å“84, Junior Seau in ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬à ‹Å“90, and Willie McGinest in ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬à ‹Å“94 were the three guys that were worthy of a top 5 pick. Lavar Arrington was chosen #2 in 2000 but he doesnâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢t even start on his own team. Anyway my point is that choosing a linebacker in the top 5 isn†™t a guarantee like you guys seem to think it is. Some of you seem more excited about drafting Hawk/Jacobs and signing Kerry Collins than a teenager in the playboy mansion. Truthfully, Iâ€à ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢m not fully sold on the guy, the only reason I could see anyone wanting to trade down (P.S., the two worst words for any team on draft day, how many times does trading down work for a team? I know it†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s worked but it†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s not often) for Hawk would be to hold out on that 1 in 70,000 chance that your season tickets will be right next to his extremely hot girlfriend (Brady Quinnâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s sister, allriiiiight). Anyways I am sure that when you look at the success of linebackers chosen in the top 5 you made the same assumption as I did†¦

There are 32 teams in the NFL. For arguments sake lets just say each starts 3 linebackers (I know there are some teams that play the 3-4 but I don†™t know where Iâ€à ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢d find that information) So that means that there are 96+ starting linebackers in the NFL. Now looking at the above paragraph that would mean that ONE!!! of the 96 starting linebackers in the NFL was chosen in the top 5. Now Iâ€à ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢m not a math major but I believe that would mean that 95 of 96 starting linebackers in the NFL were chosen mid-first round and later (there have been some guys, good and bad chosen in the 7-10 range but Hawkâ₠™s going to be top 5 so Iâ€à ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢m only using top 5 for this argument). Anyways, what makes anyone think that Hawk is worth a top 5 pick? Clearly every team in the NFL is having plenty of success finding good linebackers outside the lottery picks. Also, not one linebacker has been chosen in the top 5 since Lavar in 2000, thatâ₠™s 5 years! NFL scouts realize you can find a good linebacker later in the draft; there are better ways to use a top 5 pick than on a linebacker. Why go against the trends of the NFL draft and waste a top 5 pick on linebacker that didnâ₠™t even win the Butkus award (given to the best lb in the nation) I have yet to hear one person say they would rather have Hawk and Jacobs over Leinart and Carpenter (or any of the other stud linebackers that will still be available in the 2nd round) and by drafting Leinart I believe that would be a huge statement by the Saints. Leinart is going to be good and he can start right away. He†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s a smart quarterback (the Anti-AB) and he†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s a great guy to build a franchise around.

Anyways, this is just what I think is the best path to take. I know some of you guys think trading down (ugh I hate saying those two words, sorry I just do, haha) is the way to go. And while I believe A.J. Hawk is going to be a good linebacker, I don†™t think he†ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢s going to be the kind of guy who completely turns around a defense. If you guys think that we are going to win a championship by bringing in a washed up veteran for a year or two before we hand the ball to Jacobs you are delusional, that guy won†™t start a playoff game in his career, never the less win a championship. I do think Leinart (or even Young) can be special players who can bring home a championship for this franchise. The QB is the most important position in all of sports, why do you guys want to pass up on a stud? Draft Leinart (or even Young), and build the defense with our other picks.
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:06 PM   #2
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

Nice post for your first time and welcome aboard.

Now back to the subject. I don't think anyone here has said that Hawk is the second coming, only that he is what we have needed for 6 years now and still have yet to see. He has more chance of contributing next year than Leinart or Young, who would both ride the pine for awhile and we would get a few more picks to boot and maybe even a QB thrown in.

Leinart and Young will not be able to contribute when we need them the most, which by the way is next year, because if we don't win and prove to the NFL that we are an "NFL City" than the team will be gone but we'll still have Leinart.

I am a Saints fan because they are from New Orleans not because they have that funny thingy on their helmets or because they were once from New Orleans and I would like to keep it that way.

With a brand new unproven head coach, he won't have the time to devote to bringing a QB along now that he has an entire team.

Hawk is the no brainer for next year and if this was last year I would take Leinart but I want there to be a next year.

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Old 01-17-2006, 08:08 PM   #3
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

LivnaLieTimay if that is the case the safest pick all the experts have said in this years draft is Dâ€à ƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia he is the closes thing to roaf since he came out.

I am sold. I will take him in a heart beat and dump gandy for anything available. Besides who knows maybe our new HC likes brooks and will stick with him?

But you know what he brings to the OL and the others it is the possible upside that makes you go for them
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:12 PM   #4
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Lavar Arrington was chosen #2 in 2000 but he doesnâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â€ÂžÃ‚¢t even start on his own team.
Could you please not try this political type rhetoric? Lavar Arrington went to three pro bowls in his first four seasons. Last year he tore his ACL and has not really recovered since.
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:13 PM   #5
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

I would take Young or trade down. Young has proven he could carry a team and win. You can use all the stats you want and they come up even for the most part or Young a slight favorite but winning you can't put a price tag on that.

Your math on LB's are way wrong dude. You actually going to have to pull raw numbers and not got by that... you have to take into acount if there you are going to say 95 LB draft this year and one is in the top 5... where are the rest? Next year you have to take into account there maybe another top 5 LB now you have 95 still playing but 2 are in the top 5.

E U P H O R I A
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:20 PM   #6
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

I never said Leinart was the safest pick in the draft. I think he's the safest qb in the draft but I never said he's the safest pick in the draft. Secondly I'll give you Lavar as a good LB if you want, that doesn't matter to me. I'm just tryin to point out that currently, in the NFL there aren't many top 5 draft picks playing. Does that mean Hawk will bust and wont start? no. I'm just throwin out some different numbers for us to pick apart. And Euphoria, I'll take young in a heartbeat
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:31 PM   #7
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

Oh, and thanks Cher... this is a great website, that's why I joined
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:34 PM   #8
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

welcome we like to poke at you abit here to see how you respond and get all we can from you.
You an up stater? or a city rat?
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:34 PM   #9
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

You got it Timay and keep postin. Don't let these chumps, I'm sorry I mean members keep you from your opinion.

Yes and this is a GREAT BOARD!
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Old 01-17-2006, 08:38 PM   #10
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RE: Linebackers can be busts also...

city rat for 3 months now... "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm lovin every minute of it."... and hey I love a good debate, thats why I joined instead of just reading
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