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JOESAM2002 04-24-2003 12:22 AM

Is anyone........?
Here's a question for all of you. With so many needs on defense on this team. Is any one person worth giving up 2 1st round draft choices? It just seems to me that we could use 2 players that can play rather than one. I guess i'm just not much of a gambler. if the one player gets hurt, we've lost the whole 1st round. If you pick 2 and one gets hurt, you still have one contributing to the team.
Tell me what ya'll think.

iceshack149 04-24-2003 12:41 AM

Is anyone........?
Not even for the first pick would I trade the Saints picks at 17 and 18. Maybe if I were the Raiders GM I\'d give up the two picks at 31 and 32 for a pick in the top five. There will still be two talented players available for a team that didn\'t make the play-offs last year after 16 players have been chosen. And for a team that went to last seasons Superbowl, a player in the within the first five is much better that the last two. Actually, that goes for any team. In this case, a bird in the hand is worth more than the two in the bush.
Keep the two first round picks.

pakowitz 04-24-2003 01:08 AM

Is anyone........?
id keep both picks, or i would trade one to move up, but not both, 2 players are better then one.....

rodjmaw 04-24-2003 02:52 AM

Is anyone........?
I am one for not giving up anymore picks, however they\'re only one player that I will give up 17th & 18th pick for Dewayne Robertson. No way will this happen cuz N.E want this guy to bad and I am bout 100% sure the N.E will give Chicago what they want (both 1st rd. pick) without losing their 2nd rd. pick

I hope the saints will be able to trade down with the 18th pick and pick up Rashean Mathis and at least a 3rd rd.pick if they decide to keep both picks.

WhoDat 04-24-2003 07:49 AM

Is anyone........?
I\'d actually like to see the Saints trade both first rounders, but probably not in the way you\'re thinking. I\'d like to see them trade a first and a second to move up enough (five or six spots should probably do) to pick up Trufant or Bailey. Then, trade down with the 18 with a team like NYG or even the Raiders... whoever... for their late round first and a second. That way we could still take a DT, or a Safety in the late first, and the late second rounder could be used for a guy like Brady James (if we pickup Trufant rather than Bailey early).

Nonetheless, I still say that the Saints largest area of need is linebacker followed by DT. A shutdown corner would be nice, but the guys we have now are solid now and there are a lot of good young corners entering free agency next year. Jones and Mitchell at safety should be fun to watch. It\'s pretty close between LB and DT for where the bigger need is. Those five guys look to be either slow and old (and FAT), or young and almost completely inexperienced. Bailey and Joseph would be really nice... although I still like Trufant.

BlackandBlue 04-24-2003 08:40 AM

Is anyone........?
I\'m right there with WhoDat, I\'ve got this feeling that the Saints won\'t be still on draft day, and will move around some. That being said, there is about 8-10 players that are head and shoulders above the rest. Everything else is hit or miss. I\'m not perscribing to anything that Pak presented in his post from earlier this week, but if we want an impact player, we are going to have to break the top 10.
I will officially say that there are two players that scare me more than any others, Robertson and Bailey. While the potential is there, their respective stock has gone through the rough the past couple of months, due to workouts and hype. The problem is in the past, there have been some big name players that were drafted early in the 1st round strictly due to their workout, and became flops in the NFL. These players scare me, and rightfully so. I heard Jim Sabo say the other day that if you could take EJ Henderson\'s brain and implant it into Bailey\'s body, you\'d have your #1 pick of the draft, no questions asked. When further prodded, he said that in the past, those draft picks that succeed in the NFL didn\'t always have decent workouts, but were tabbed as knowing how to play their positions effectively and well. The more I hear draft experts, and the more I read, the more complexed I get about this years draftees. The only player that I am 100% sure about is Trufant, the more I read, the more amazed I become by his potential. He\'s got better corner skills than Newman, although not by much, but loses out to Newman on speed and recovery skills.

pakowitz 04-24-2003 10:10 AM

Is anyone........?
i also agree with whodat on this one, trading up for either trufant or bailey with the 17th and then trading down the 18th is an excellent way to get more players, i like the idea of trading with the raiders maybe not both firsts but a first n 2 seconds...

saint5221 04-24-2003 10:47 AM

Is anyone........?
I,m opposed to giving up our two #1\'s for one pick but I would\'nt mind seeing them both in play. LB is absolutely our biggest need but it\'s not a strong LB draft. I would\'nt trade up for either Bailey or Henderson. We should be able to trade down for Henderson and I know its a stretch but Bailey could fall to where we are . (I really hope someone who can help us at LB becomes avaible after June 1st,can\'t count on that now though.)So if we trade up it should be for either a Tackle or a Corner. We can get to around the nine or ten spot with just our one and two any higher would cost us another pick. Trufant will be gone by then so is he worth three picks, I dont think so. So that leaves tackle, Its a very deep draft at tackle but a lot of teams with plenty of trade ammo want a Tackle as well, so up we go. The nine or ten spots look good again to get any Tackle other than Robertson, so who do you like for a one and a two Kennedy, Sullivan ,Williams. I would prefer Kennedy the guy look like a monster but he did have weight concerns so we need to watch how we expose him to our current fat bastards in the middle, they could teach him to eat his way back to his 400lb form that caused him to redshirt his freshman year.
With our second #1 if we get lucky as hell , a run on QB\'s or Mike SMartz being his usual draft genius,( remember Eric Crouch) Bailey is stil on the board,not likely so I\'m with WhoDat lets trade down and see what we can get. Henderson, Polamalu,Woolfolk Steinbach plus another pick sounds good.
A wildcard option fun to think about if the buzz is true, is Smoot. If we trade down far enough with our second 1st we would still have a low 1st round pick and a #2 pick the Skins supposedly are asking for him.
Whatever happens it should be fun to see what transpires this weekend. GO SAINTS

[Edited on 4/24/2003 by saint5221]

[Edited on 4/24/2003 by saint5221]

rusta 04-24-2003 11:08 AM

Is anyone........?
are these smoot rumors true? i can\'t find anything anywhere else than here, if they are then our draft is a no brainer, we try to trade up with 17 for a DT if that not happening wait to see if bailey falls to 17, either way trade down with 18 to give skins the late 1st round they want for smoot, if bailey doesn\'t fall trade down with 17 too and pick up henderson later, that way we get 2-3 more picks and get players to fill both holes, smoot while have more of an impact than anyone we could get in the draft this year, where are you guys hearing about smoot?

saint5221 04-24-2003 11:53 AM

Is anyone........?
Its only a second the Skins are supposedly asking for.
Bellow is Pasquarelli tip sheet the link is above

With their draft choice cupboard perilously bare, the Washington Redskins are suddenly brainstorming internally for ideas on how to add some choices, at least in the middle rounds. The problem is, Washington really isn\'t in very good position to acquire additional choices by dealing down from its current picks, and isn\'t about to trade any high-profile veterans like tackles Chris Samuels and Jon Jansen, linebacker LaVar Arrington and Jeremiah Trotter or wide receiver Rod Gardner. But one guy the Redskins offered up in trade talks a couple months ago, and who quietly is back on the block, is cornerback Fred Smoot. There is a lot to like about Smoot for any team that might want to make an inquiry. He\'s just a two-year veteran, only 24 years old, an excellent cover guy and not making very much money. While his departure would weaken the Washington secondary, some Redskins worry that Smoot is never going to be the most mature guy, and owner Dan Snyder might part with him for a high second-round choice. Snyder realizes that, at some point, Smoot is going to want big money. The Redskins will have to invest a bunch next spring, either in an extension or by using a \"franchise\" tag, to retain Champ Bailey, their other standout cornerback.

And this is from ESPN insider so no link for it, but I included the whole article not just Smoot\'s section
Big names could be trade bait on draft day
Darrell Trimble
NFL Insider

Send an Email to Darrell Trimble

What makes the NFL draft alluring is the fact that it centers on the unknown. Everyone is waiting to see which highly touted player is selected and whether he will fulfill his promise or become one in a long line of draft-day busts.

But what also makes the draft interesting is the part known commodities play in the two-day free-for-all.

Teams looking to move up often offer someone from their pro roster in trade for someone with the promise of greatness. Some years it happens more than others, and this year could see a heavy exchange of proven players for prospects.

Some of the names being mentioned as possible draft-day trade bait are quite prominent, like Cleveland receiver Kevin Johnson. The former Syracuse star has been dangled before, and this year is no different.

JohnsonJohnson led the Browns with 67 receptions, but given the development of Quincy Morgan, multi-purpose Dennis Northcutt and the emergence of last year\'s second-round pick, André Davis, who caught six touchdown passes, Cleveland is deep at receiver. It probably would take a second-round pick or a high third-rounder to get the job done, although coach Butch Davis denies Johnson is on the block. But it\'s tough to take anything a coach says at face value this time of year, and given the team\'s past attempts to deal Johnson, he could be on the move. Who\'s in desperate need of a wideout? Try Arizona.

The Browns also are shopping running back Jamel White. With William Green looking like a franchise back, the Browns don\'t need White and his $1.318 million salary. White was signed to the first-round tender, but they can recoup that money if they trade him. The Patriots look like a compatible trade partner. They are displeased with Antowain Smith, and they have 13 picks. The Cowboys also have White rated highly.

Another big name that could be available is Detroit Lions defensive tackle Shaun Rogers. It was only two years ago that Rogers was the steal of the draft as a second-round pick. He was first-round material, but a bum ankle scared off more than a few teams.

Last season, Rogers had ankle surgery in training camp and broke his thumb in the second game, regressing slightly. Not only did he have injury problems, he also gained extra weight and didn\'t seem as motivated last season. The word is out that the Lions woul move the former Texas star for a first-round pick. Of course, that\'s a high price for a guy with injury and, possibly, motivation problems.

The Washington Redskins began shopping cornerback Fred Smoot even before they were drained of nearly all their draft picks, but now that the team has only three picks in the draft\'s first six rounds, they could use Smoot to acquire an extra pick on the draft\'s first day.

Smoot is considered a good cover corner, of which the \'Skins are in short supply, but the knock on him is that he is not physical enough. Still, he\'s young, brash and has cover skills that are in demand, so some team will be interested. Smoot will likely command a second-round choice or an early third-rounder.

Other players who could be on the block are Arizona running back Thomas Jones, New York Giants ball carrier Ron Dayne and Minnesota Vikings backup center Cory Withrow.

The Chiefs are interested in possibly trading for Jones, although they might wait until his release. The Giants aren\'t talking trade publicly, but GM Ernie Accorsi has never been one to let anything slip. With the recent acquisition of Dorsey Levens, Dayne is expendable. Withrow is a backup who has drawn moderate interest from teams that think he can be a starter. He is expected to garner a late-round pick at best.

There were other reports these were the two quickest to find

[Edited on 4/24/2003 by saint5221]

[Edited on 4/24/2003 by saint5221]

SFinAustin 04-24-2003 01:19 PM

Is anyone........?
In my opinion, this is a weak draft where the talent will dry up after the top 10-12. I\'m sure they\'re will be some late round gems but overall, I\'m not that impressed. I\'m in favor of trading up for one of the \"elite\" players in this years draft.

Note for next year:
The Saints will trade up for Kellen Winslow Jr. next season. I\'m glad we have that extra 2nd round pick!

pakowitz 04-24-2003 02:37 PM

Is anyone........?
look at it this way, last year we had the 13th and 25th picks, we got 2 starters out of those 2 picks, this year we have 17 and 18, which are between both 13 and 25, therefore, we aught to be able to get 2 more starters out of those 2 picks if we stay where we are now......

rusta 04-24-2003 02:37 PM

Is anyone........?
it looks like the smoot thing isn\'t just rumor, how in the world can we pass up on smoot! for a second rounder that is a huge steal, friggin enormous, he adds buckets of depth and allows us to focus on LB and DT in the first round, neither of which we would have to trade up or down to get, henderson will fall to us and bailey might even fall to us and with so many DT\'s in the draft one will defintely be there come 18, A SECOND ROUNDER!? A SECOND ROUNDER!? MY GOD THIS IS A NO BRAINER!!!!!!! i\'ve seen smoot play a coupla times in washington and he is well worth a second round pick and he\'s still young :o :o :o :o
please god let loomis see the light

WhoDat 04-24-2003 02:50 PM

Is anyone........?
I LOVE this Smoot possibility. Love IT! Here\'s my new thinking...

Sit tight and pray the Bailey falls to you at 17. If he does, you take him there and trade down your 18 and pick up a second. Trade the second to Washington for Smoot and pull the trigger on the next best DT available with your number two.

However, if Bailey\'s not around I think you try to move down with both. Move down a few spots with the 17 and hope to get a first and second. Do the same with the 18. Then, take Henderson later in the first and Joseph or the best DT still available. Trade one second to Washington for Smoot and use your other second for a safety... or you could always go after an OL, RB, another LB (James maybe), CB, or even another DT. This could actually even be better, if Bailey\'s gone. Does this sound possible or am I wishfully thinking?

WhoDat 04-24-2003 03:19 PM

Is anyone........?
I don\'t know Gator. Defense is definitely the focus this year, but this is an extremely deep draft defensively overall. Much more so than offensively. Here\'s my best case...
Trade down with the Giants for a one and a two with the 18. You may even be able to trade Oakland the 17 for both number ones... otherwise take a number one and two for it. Pull the trigger on the Smoot deal. Take Henderson at number 25 and Kenny Peterson or William Joseph with your other first rounder. Then with your second (or other number one if you trade with Oakland), take Polamalu. Look at either OT George Foster, RB Lee Suggs (VA Tech), TE Jason Witten (TN), DB Rashean Mathis (B-C), DE Dwayne White (Louisville), LB Bradie James (LSU), C Jeff Faine (Notre Dame), or even LB Gerald Hayes (Pitt).

We may be able to come out of the first two rounds with:
CB Fred Smoot (trade)
LB EJ Henderson (Maryland)
DT Kenny Peterson (Ohio St)
S Troy Polamalu (USC)
and the next best bet out of those guys listed above.

My God, is that really a possibility? Someone tell me I\'m nuts b/c this is beginning to make my mouth water. Unreal. This can\'t be possible.

rusta 04-24-2003 03:25 PM

Is anyone........?
Ah but wait, with a little patience and luck bailey could fall to 17 and we would only have to trade down our 18 pick, your mouth is watering and mine is foaming


saint5221 04-24-2003 03:35 PM

Is anyone........?
Ok, how about this this for the wheel and deal up and down three man draft day special. Trade up with the 17th and 2nd rounder to get a tackle(kennedy) . With the 18th trade down to pick up Henderson he would need to fall a little but if we got him by 22 or 23 we would pick up a third rounder. Now the Smoot part package our two third rounders to the Skins for Smoot( or we could do the work for them and find a second round suitor for the to threes while we are calling everyone in the league to do all this.) Then we relax and draft in the 5th and 7th rounds. Kennedy Smoot and Henderson plus two. Works for me but I did leave work early to go to Jazz Fest today and have been drinking heavly.

nocloning 04-24-2003 03:41 PM

Is anyone........?
I don\'t know, WhoDat.
Your examples of trades are either very favorable for the Saints (Giants) or extremely favorable for the Saints (Raiders) - look at the DPVC. When they try to trade #17 other teams will get the message they may trade both of their picks and try to play the Saints. So you can trade #18, but not #17. Prediction: At least one of the players on the want-list of Haslett/Loomis will be there at #17. It may be a surprise who that pick is, but I\'m absolutely willing to give them the benefit of the doubt this year. Haslett has been EVERYWHERE. So don\'t expect any *****ing about the draft from me even if it doesn\'t go the way I predicted.

Either stay put or trade down with the second pick, but don\'t trade up. At the moment I favor simply staying put (and I won\'t complain if they do trade up ... maybe a little).

Smoot: Trying to think like Loomis ... Already got some CBs ... will pick up at least one in the draft ... Smoot is good and young -> big(ger) contract -> cap problems? ... pass him up

rusta 04-24-2003 03:53 PM

Is anyone........?
did you clone yourself from a moron? like any corner we get in draft isn\'t going to want big money? taking smoot eliminates picking up one in the draft until second day when they are cheap, the corners we have are old and only have 2 maybe 3 years left in them, smoot is 24 a proven starter and has a pretty cheap contract that covers the next 2 years, he\'s the biggest second round steal i\'ve heard off in a while, if loomis can\'t see that then i say mueller flies in and whips his ass into a sensible state of mind, we\'re gonna open the pocketbook for horn but not for a smoot??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet: :casstet:
nothing personal, hehe

WhoDat 04-24-2003 03:55 PM

Is anyone........?
No way... do you think Smoot will be more expensive to sign than say Trufant AND a second round pick? No way. That\'s why you trade down. Less expensive to sign and if you can still swing Henderson (who should be around even in the mid 20s) and even a guy like Kenny Peterson you\'re better off. SMOOT, TRADE DOWN, GREEN, SUPER BOWL!!!! :P Have I been drinking? I don\'t remember drinking.

nocloning 04-24-2003 04:19 PM

Is anyone........?
Aye, I\'m all for signing Smoot, I\'m just not sure Loomis sees it the same way. Smoot will be more expensive than a second round pick that we would have to give up for him.
I do believe he\'s on the trading block, just not sure that it\'s the straight up trade for a second-rounder that\'s been reported. If so, why hasn\'t any team (thinking Rams) already pulled the trigger on the deal? Are the Redskins asking for too much?
Wait and see.

LordOfEntropy 04-24-2003 04:22 PM

Is anyone........?
From everything I\'m hearing about this guy (whooping up on LSU, age, cheap, 2-year veteran), I agree.

Trade for Smoot.

Which leaves drafing easier for other need positions easier - LB, DT. Then for depth.

I was on a few Washington boards a couple days ago, trying to get a feel for how they felt about Smoot being traded off. Feelings were mixed. Some were pissed, others said Smoot hadn\'t been playing well enough to merit keeping.

I haven\'t kept up with him (or even heard of him until this forum), so I can\'t say.

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