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-   -   FO? WTF? Part Deux (http://blackandgold.com/saints/12036-fo-wtf-part-deux.html)

JKool 03-25-2006 12:40 PM

FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
Ok, so I've read a couple of recent and interesting post regarding our near dead stop in what appeared to be a promising FA period.

So, we got Brees, Fujita, and Bennett. All solid in my book.

However, we still need a real LB, a DT, a CB, and an entire OL (except RT).

These guys, when I last checked, are still out there - let's get a couple of them and now:
LB - Arrington
CB - Ahmed Plummer
DT - Sam Adams
C - Mike Flannigan
C - Jeff Mitchell

I'm sure there are many more.

What do you guys think? Why aren't we rebuilding our OL at the very least?

gandhi1007 03-25-2006 01:02 PM

Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKool
Ok, so I've read a couple of recent and interesting post regarding our near dead stop in what appeared to be a promising FA period.

So, we got Brees, Fujita, and Bennett. All solid in my book.

However, we still need a real LB, a DT, a CB, and an entire OL (except RT).

These guys, when I last checked, are still out there - let's get a couple of them and now:
LB - Arrington
CB - Ahmed Plummer
DT - Sam Adams
C - Mike Flannigan
C - Jeff Mitchell

I'm sure there are many more.

What do you guys think? Why aren't we rebuilding our OL at the very least?

Excellent post, JKool. And I really like every one of the guys on that list. :lol:

TheDeuce 03-25-2006 01:04 PM

RE: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
Quote:

However, we still need a real LB, a DT, a CB, and an entire OL (except RT).
We do need a real LB, and I think we'll get one in the draft. We need 1 DT, and I think we can get one in the draft, but I'd like to see us make a run at Brenston Buckner. CB should be a priority in FA, and Plummer is highest on my list.

But about the OLine. Our guards are fine, and so is RT, as you mentioned. We need a center, which can be addressed by signing Trey Teague who is considered one of the better centers in the game. We can also look into Mangold in the draft. And of course, LT seems to be just a matter of time before we draft Brick.

W're not going to get Arrington, it was never even a possibility. Flanagan already signed with the Texans.

BrooksMustGo 03-25-2006 02:14 PM

Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JKool
So, we got Brees, Fujita, and Bennett. All solid in my book.

However, we still need a real LB, a DT, a CB, and an entire OL (except RT).

What do you guys think? Why aren't we rebuilding our OL at the very least?

Kool, I agree totally on our signings. I also agree on going and getting a couple of the available guys now. I'm getting concerned that we are painting ourselves into a corner on draft day.

I'd like to go get both Arrington, Plummer and Mitchell at this point. If worse came to worse, I'd stay with the defensive line we have (please don't hear me say I think the D-line is fine as is).

I will air a pet peeve of mine at this point. I simply do not understand the anti Arrington bias floating around. There are several things we know about Arrington.
1. He isn't signed.
2. New teams are talking to him almost every day, so I don't see how he a lock for the Giants. Last I read, the Dolphins and Jags are the front runners.
3. He will be expensive, but not cripplingly so. He's not asking for Hutchinson or Manning money.
4. He's only 27, he's an elite player, playing at an elite level.
5. If we were to sign him, he would immediately be our franchise defensive player. I don't see how you overpaying a franchise defensive player who wants in the neighborhood of 6 million a year. If we were talking about Ty Law I would agree on the over paying part. Law, as near as I can tell, wants to be the highest paid player in the game. He's not worth 15% of the cap. At a 6 million price tag, I don't see how Arrington is asking the same thing. We take Arrington and we can be in pretty good position to address the offensive line.
6. With Arrington and Fujita, we have a LOT of competition for the remaining position and should have enough guys to see how they fit there.
7. Unused cap space does us no good. I'd rather spend the 6 mill and have Arrington than have 6 mill in unused cap space. It's like staring at 7 course meal and choosing to starve to death because we "might need it later."

Lastly, I agree that we need to work on the O-line. But perhaps not as dramatically as your comment suggest (I'm not sure I'm reading you right).
RT--Brown is great as it.
RG--Montrae Holland is ok. I'm sure we could find a better player, but maybe next year. Maybe a 2nd day pick from a small school could give us better depth at guard.
C--As of today, we're screwed at this position. I'd really like to sign Mitchell before the draft rather than bet the bank on Mangold being there whenever we use our second pick. I'd like Mangold too, but we're taking a significant risk to just ignore the position until draft day. If we don't sign a vet soon, I don't see how we escape drafting 2 guys at some combination of C/G just to have depth. Critical need that doesn't seem to be addressed at all.
LG--Jon Stinchcomb. He's consistently been projected at guard over his footwork and agility. Let's just move him over there and get something from him? If he were to be the depth behind D'Brick, then I'd be in favor of a guy like Davin Joseph out of Oklahoma. At worst, we play Mayberry for another year.
LT--We're in ideal position to secure D'Brick who should start from week 1. I think we'd be better off cutting Gandy on June 1 and saving 4 million. (Another pet peeve of mine, somehow Arrington is too expensive at 6 million, but Gandy shouldn't be cut at 4?) My thinking is to then draft another rookie on day 2 to play behind D'Brick.

I agree that the O-line is a concern, especially now that we have a pocket passer. I'm not sure that the cupboard is totally bare along the line yet. As I see it, a LT and C should allow us to be competative. The key will be to sign D'Brick quickly and get him down here to start working.

zachsaints52 03-25-2006 02:38 PM

RE: Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
I definately agree on everything BrooksMustGo. Cut Gandy, get Arrington with his money, and draft Brick.

JKool 03-25-2006 02:45 PM

RE: Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
I think the key point that BMG made was this: our draft will be telegraphed if we don't pick up at least one OLinemen (since it will be pretty clear that we'll be after Brick and Mangold, 1 and 2). This will lower the trade value of our picks and make it harder for us to get the guys we want later in the draft. That would be bad. Let's get Mitchell at least.

gandhi1007 03-25-2006 03:22 PM

RE: Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
With all the teams dilly-dallying around, trying to low-ball Arrington, all we would have to do is offer him the money he wants & he's ours. Cut Gandy's fat a** & sign the leader of the new era of the Dome Patrol! A great LB like that doesn't float around on the market that long. And just so everybody knows, I'm not with giving up a 1st rounder for Cato June!!!!!

papz 03-25-2006 03:30 PM

RE: Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
I really want him too but I think his asking price is going to be somewhere near Peterson type money... so I'm a little skeptical on whether or not we should sign him. I've been on some other team forums and there's some talk of him signing with the Jags... man would that defense be sick. It's probably just a rumor though... they just signed Henderson to an extension so I doubt they have the resources to sign him now.

Mitchell and Plummer look like the most realistic options on that list. Two signing that would make my off season... Mitchell/Raymer and Plummer. Heck one of them would make me happy... two would be a bonus and the draft should then add the rest of the missing pieces.

gandhi1007 03-25-2006 03:37 PM

RE: Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
I think Arrington is worth way more than Peterson, so if it's Peterson money he wants I say give it to him. Why not take a chance. I mean hell, we gave Brooks a 6 year $48 million deal after only one decent season. This guy's been great from day one in 2000!

TheDeuce 03-25-2006 06:18 PM

RE: Re: FO? WTF? Part Deux
 
Quote:

With all the teams dilly-dallying around, trying to low-ball Arrington, all we would have to do is offer him the money he wants & he's ours
Seriously, if it was that easy, don't you think something would have been resolved by now?????

Quote:

I will air a pet peeve of mine at this point. I simply do not understand the anti Arrington bias floating around. There are several things we know about Arrington.
1. He isn't signed.
2. New teams are talking to him almost every day, so I don't see how he a lock for the Giants. Last I read, the Dolphins and Jags are the front runners.
3. He will be expensive, but not cripplingly so. He's not asking for Hutchinson or Manning money.
4. He's only 27, he's an elite player, playing at an elite level.
5. If we were to sign him, he would immediately be our franchise defensive player. I don't see how you overpaying a franchise defensive player who wants in the neighborhood of 6 million a year. If we were talking about Ty Law I would agree on the over paying part. Law, as near as I can tell, wants to be the highest paid player in the game. He's not worth 15% of the cap. At a 6 million price tag, I don't see how Arrington is asking the same thing. We take Arrington and we can be in pretty good position to address the offensive line.
6. With Arrington and Fujita, we have a LOT of competition for the remaining position and should have enough guys to see how they fit there.
7. Unused cap space does us no good. I'd rather spend the 6 mill and have Arrington than have 6 mill in unused cap space. It's like staring at 7 course meal and choosing to starve to death because we "might need it later."
I agree that Arrington would immediately be our franchise defensive player and would be the player at LB that we haven't had in a long time. However, we need to look at the REALITY of this thing. First of all, he doesn't want to come here. He has said numerous times that he wants to stay on the east coast, and would love to stay in the NFC East so he could play the Redskins twice a year; which is why his most serious suitors have been the Giants, Dolphins, and Jaguars. Second, he's going to be very expensive. I wouldn't mind giving him that money if we didn't have SO MANY other holes to fill. We still need 1/2 centers, a CB, a DT, perhaps another OG/OT, probably a backup QB, and room to sign all of our draft picks. If we want to get some good players at those other positions, I think we can't afford to give all that money to just one player. I really wish Arrington would become a Saint, but I'm just looking at it realistically here, it's not going to happen. He's expensive, injury prone, and doesn't want to leave the east coast.


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