SHELL ON BROOKS:
 

SHELL ON BROOKS: Raiders coach Art Shell said the biggest hurdle for former Saints quarterback Aaron Brooks will be to get away from where he's been, to "mentally erase as much of what happened and just dive into what we're doing with the Raiders."

Shell said Brooks, who turned 30 last week, is not coming in as a teacher, and that he will compete with young quarterbacks Marques Tuiasosopo and Andre Walter.

www.nola.com

mentally erase? how is this possible? smitty

I think that slate has been clean for a while. Gotta have something on the board to be able to erase.

You missed the key part from Shell, "dive in". Art knows when he has found someone who knows how to take a dive.

Guys, I thought the general consensus was to let the Black and SILVER message boards discuss Aaron from now on. Lets focus on the future, not the past.

you are right BJ. my bad, the less said the better. it is kinda like a divorce though- you may wish the ex gets hooked up with, if not a wacko, at least a loser so she may realize what she blew or didn't blow as the case may be :wink: )

After all the heartache I got from Aaron Brooks, I know I didn't agree to anything of the sort. The thread is clearly titled. If anyone doesn't wanna discuss Aaron, don't. As for me, I am gonna purge my system of his memory every chance I get. Noone should be apologizing cause they are talking about Aaron Brooks, unless we are no longer gonna talk about LeCharles, Howard, Knight, Roaf, Turley, Delhomme, O'Sullivan, Tesucky, or any other player who has left for another team. :roll:

i look forward to seeing others trash brooks. hell thats one thing i count on some of you guys for, too many years he pissed me off, it makes me feel somewhat better.

...well said... :shock:

Hmmmm let ask this question. How many of you were at the Super Dome that wonderful day when Hakim fumbled the ball? How many of you hated Brooks then? How many of you hated him the day he threw for 5 TDs against the Giants? How many of you are old enough to remember when Bobby, Archie, Billy, and who ever else we had at QB made bonehead plays. Did you guys hate Bobby Hebert when he threw the interception to Deion Sanders in the playoff game against Atlanta? Seems to me this franchise has never had a QB to take us to the promise land...yet all of the hatred is directed to Brooks like no other...can anyone tell me why that is? And please don't give me the Archie played on bad teams story...don't tell me he didn't have the talent that Brooks had. Both sucked at different points of their time in a Saints uniform and both suffered miserably from playing behind sub-standard offensive lines. I look forward to seeing Drew Brees in a Saints uniform and I look forward to seeing AB throwing to Randy Moss...you know someone who can catch the ball and do something with it after it's caught

probably has to do with wehn and how he threw int's as well as the um fumbles the guy made. that might be part of it

Brooks is a Raider and Brees is a Saint.

Chalk up another one for Captain Obvious. lol....j/k LTF...just bustin' your balls.

Ask us how many people care about your Brooks defenses? Ever hear the sound of one hand clapping? :roll:

Hey Whodi, is that calling punishing the bishop?

I don't know what it is called, but the clap can't be good.

Ditup2..I bet you didn't think I could figure things out (smile)

Saintswhodi...I asked a legitimate question because I don't understand the malice everyone has for Brooks. I wasn't defending him just asking why he wasn't held up to the same standard that other Saints QBs were held up to. They all stinked but none of them were hated like Brooks. No one can tell me why he was hated so much but his stats were the best of any QB the team has had...no one won more games, threw more TDs, and so on but yet he's the most hated Saint of all time...Why?

Stats alone doesn't make you a winner, if you kill a drive more times than not than to me stats don't mean anything to me.
Brooks could take you down field at times only to fumble, throw an int. or as said many times throw a backwards pass, throwing for over 300 yards means nothing to me if you make 3-4 mistakes that cost your team the win in the same game that you throw for all that yardage, what good is being a 300 yard passer if you can't get it in the end-zone?
I don't know how to explain Brooks more than I just said, I'm tired of ppl talking about his stats, 10 years from now no one will remember his stats , some one like Brett Farve they'll talk about his stats 30 years from now because he was a winner, he had what it took to win games

... let us ask this question...how many handles does one need when trying to push the ol' tired same topic over and over and over again?

....whateveryournameis: let it go. You are actually hurting your man more than you are helping him. If it weren't for Brooks opening his yap saying how great he is and proving himself wrong AND people like you who keep on putting down fan favorites of the past to prop your man up, Brooks wouldn't even be mentioned... heck, had he said the right things, most folks here would've given him a better treatment, but the combination of his yap and your e-yap is just too much for Saints fans to bear...

... so what if Brooks has records... who cares... the Rangers could land on Normandy today, and would mean crap compared to the Normandy landing of 60-some years ago...

.. so just let it go... who knows, maybe the Raiders win the SB next year with Brooks at the helm and you can come here and gloat and taunt and whathaveyou, but until then, just let it go...

Well said. Some of the people on this board have an agenda to keep all conversations about Brooks to zero. The case goes like this... he ain't here no more, we HATE him, he never did squat but play bad, and we never want to hear about that Ahole again.... bla bla bla....

Get over it.... this board is for any conversation that pretains to the NFL, Saints and even Louisiana sports in general. There is too much undeserved HATE for Brooks that is unwarrented. Sure he made some boneheaded plays but that's over now.

Love him or hate him, Brooks will go down in our sorry history as the BEST QB to date. Hopefully Brees will do better but that remains to be seen. If history is any indication, Brees is in for some rough threads in the near future.

If we can't talk about the QB that holds almost all of the Saints QB records because he isn't in a Saints uniform anymore then we shouldn't be able to talk about ANY PLAYER NOT IN A SAINTS UNIFORM which would be stupid.

Aaron Brooks gave us some of the greatest games I've ever seen in Saints history too. He more than anybody else handled Tampa in the Superbowl run. We also started out 7-0 one season when Brooks played great and if it wouldn't have been for the defense, we would have gone far. Brooks has an unbelievable 26 come from behind victories to his credit a fact lost on people that only remember the pass he threw behind him for 20 yards. On year he had 28TDs and 8 Ints but you only hear that he smiles. That is all lost on some people becasue he sucked the last two years behind a bad offensive line and one of the worse defensed ever imagined by Venturi. Hell the whole team sucked.

If Brooks threads POes you, get over it. When did the moderaters ban talk about Brooks anyway? You look like weenies crying about Brooks threads. Why should people that are still interested in Brooks be forced to read your sour grapes? Please wish him well and if you don't like threads about him, please refraim from your usual comments because I know that you love the Saints so those comments should be beneath you.

At least he didn't leave us in FA like so many other players. I believe he wanted to be a Saint first.

I just hope everyone who hates Aaron for throwing ints, also hates Drew when he throws one.

It is beyond me as to why some people can't understand why AB was disliked by so many. To me, it is extemely obvious. He just had a way of rubbing fans the wrong way. It is true that Archie, Bobby, and the rest made mistakes too. All of those guys were capable of taking responsibility for losses or mistakes, whether it was justified or not...a characteristic that a good QB must have to be a leader. They rarely, if ever, called out anyone. It is not about the mistakes, IMO, but more the way he handled them.

I have one parting comment. AB did not lead Archie in ALL stats. The stat for probowl appearances was Archie-2...AB-0. The stat for NFC MVP was Archie-1...AB-0. I do give AB credit for being the only QB to lead the Saints to that playoff win that he rode for 5 years after, but it would have had more meaning to me if he had been the starter from the beginning of the season.

Hey LB, good to se ya dewd

Update reading this thread made my stomach sour this morning.
:puke:

I was glad to at least read this acknowledgement-
I suppose you could be infatuated with AB if you only examined his stats (less fumbles and redzone deficiency)and never saw him play. Anybody old enough to remember Dave Kingman with 442 lifetime homers? That is about top 30 alltime. He was a bum. Leon could make a spectacular play on occasion. For everyone of those there were multipled number of bonehead mistakes.

I have lived through the travails of every saint QB. Archie was indeed THE great quarterback on some absolutely dreadful teams. His records were only surpassed because of the rule changes that increased passes by at least 10 more per game than of that era.

I think most wanted to see the AB threads fade away because the memories are so bitter and vile. What some might call sour grapes, the majority here calls the ugly truth. You are no more forced to face that than we are such absolute bullsh!t to the contrary. I'll "refraim" my comments any damn way I choose because I am a full fedged team supporter.

Ed Hargett sucked. Bobby Douglass sucked. Dave Wilson sucked. Steve Walsh sucked. Heath Shuler sucked. Aaron Brooks sucked, maybe not as bad but for much longer. Todd Bouman still sucks. I am Saints family. I can criticize my family cuz I love them so much. I don't hate them, just what they did or didn't do. I have had to get my teenage son out of some ugly situations for things I did hate to see him do. My love for him was never diminished by those choices though. Sometimes I have had to enact some tough love in the process. True love (and like fan allegiance) is not carte blanche support no matter what they do. I wanted to see AB succeed in our NO family. He kept making so many bad decisions when given chance after chance that I am glad to see him gone. Excusing HIS all too obvious mistakes and blaming others is not dissimilar to the drug addicts mantra of coming from a dysfunctional family, lack of education, or not being given a fair opportunity, etc.

I WILL hate any team members poor play whether throwing an interception, fumbling or otherwise. I will still support them though. That is until such play becomes regular, accepted, or in anyway an ongoing detriment to the whole team. At that time I will call for trading or releasing him.

I do think it is better to try and wipe the slate clean of the Haz/Leon love affair era. The carte blanche supporters will find little support from veterans here. I like the thought of that rancor dying out. If such repugnance surfaces though I do have to spit it out.

Oh, I forgot...
I hate erroneous statements stated as fact-
7-0 start? When was that? Must be counting some preseason games.

I remember more the 2001 0-4 finish being outscored 52-160. Maybe it was the 2002 3-1 start? I remember more the 0-3 finish against three of the worst teams in the league and needing only one win to make the playoffs. Couldn't have been the 2003 1-4 start averaging only 17 pts scored (most against the expansion Texans. Certainly not the 2004 4-8 start. Damn that tease finish that kept Haz/Leon around for one more year. We know the 2005 2-8 start. 7-0 when? Jeff Blake did have that 6-0 run in 2000 but that was in the middle of the season not the start.

Google "Archie Manning sucks" and "Aaron Brooks sucks".

Brooks kicks butt and wins! 172-17

It was the year after we got rid of Ricky. We had both Turley and Bentely and a solid OL. Kelly, I stand corrected.. we did start 6-1 that year and were #1 in the NFL power ratings. Brooks was great in that period beating Tampa Bay twice in their superbowl run. We won a lot of games because of Brooks, the running game and having great pass protection. It was the DEFENSE that couldn't stop anyones running game that led to the demise of that season. Teams figured out that the best way to beat the Saints was to run the football and keep the football out of the hands of Brooks.

Brooks threw for 3500 yards, 27 tds and 15 ints. Duece ran for 1300 yards and caught another 325. Horn had a great year with over 1300 yards.


A look back at the 2002 season - what might have been.

Jan. 6 - Saints concluded 2001 season with 7-9 mark; Feb. 9 - S Sammy Knight and DT La'Roi Glover started in the Pro Bowl; March 7 - Owner Tom Benson announced that he will start an Arena Football League team, the New Orleans VooDoo; March 8 - Saints traded RB Ricky Williams to the Miami Dolphins for a first-round selection in the 2002 draft and a conditional third-round selection in 2003 (upgraded to a first-round pick in 2003 based on Williams' performance); March 26 - Saints traded T William Roaf to the Kansas City Chiefs for a conditional 4th round pick in the 2003 draft (upgraded to a third-round pick in 2003 with Roaf's playing time); April 20 - Saints picked Tennessee WR Donte' Stallworth with their first selection in the NFL draft; May 9 - Saints released General Manager of Football Operations Randy Mueller from his contract; May 13 - Saints promoted Mickey Loomis to General Manager of Football Operations from Director of Football Administration; Aug. 7 - Signed Coach Jim Haslett to a multi-year contract extension; Sept. 7- Signed QB Aaron Brooks to a six-year contract extension; Sept. 22 - Saints charge back from 20-point deficit vs. Bears at Memorial Stadium in Champaign, Ill. QB Aaron Brooks tossed three TDs in the final three quarters, including a 29-yard scoring toss to WR Donte' Stallworth with 1:11 remaining that proved to be the game-winner. The victory was the 20th of Coach Jim Haslett's coaching career; Sept. 29 - WR Donte' Stallworth became the first rookie in 20 years to catch a touchdown in his first four NFL games; Oct. 13 - At Washington, WR Michael Lewis became the seventh player in NFL history - and the first in team record books - to return a punt and a kickoff for a touchdown in the same game. His 286 return yards vs. the Redskins ranked as the second-highest in Saints history. Lewis was named NFC Special Teams Player of the Week for his efforts in the 43-27 victory; Oct. 20 - Saints improve to 6-1 with 35-27 win over San Francisco in the Superdome. In the win over the 49ers, QB Aaron Brooks passed for three touchdowns and ran for another and was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week. Five of New Orleans' first six victories came over playoff teams from 2001; Dec. 8 - WR Donte' Stallworth hauls in a 28-yard touchdown at Baltimore, giving him a team rookie-record seven scoring catches for the seasn. He finishes the year with eight; Dec. 29 - RB Deuce McAllister rushed for 117 yards on 28 carries in finale vs. Carolina, his eighth 100-yard performance of the season (second-most in club history to the nine RB George Rogers posted in 1981) ... WR Michael Lewis finished the season with an NFL-record 2,432 yards of combined kickoff and punt return yardage. Lewis posted 1,807 yards in kickoff returns and 625 yards in punt returns - both team records ... K John Carney finished the year with a team-record 130 points. He also tied a team mark with 31 field goals, pulling even with K Morten Andersen's total in 1985 ... Saints conclude 2002 season at 9-7.

HEY... MAYBE LOSING MUELLER HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE WHOLE TEAM'S DEMISE. From there on the teams success seemed to fall apart. Since then special teams play has been in decline too. In fact, the whole team started to decline.

Brooks followed up 2003 with the following stats.... 3500+ yards, 24 TDS and 8 Ints.... he did lose something like 8 fumbles that year. Brooks's demise (seems to me) followed poor defense that led to constantly being behind and poor OL play. It magnified his weaknesses and swallowed his strengths. The guy gave us some pretty good games too with 26 come from behind victories to his credit despite Venturi's defense.

Brooks was great in that period beating Tampa Bay twice in their superbowl run. We won a lot of games because of Brooks, the running game and having great pass protection.

This is one of the main reasons people hate Aaron Brooks. When we were winning, it was all him. When we were losing, it was everyone's fault but his. Next bad aaron Brooks argument please...... :roll:

Did you know this great 2003 you keep bragging on Brooks led the leaguein lost fumbles? Think that had anything to do with us being 8-8, while Deuce and LeCharles were going to the pro bowl? :shock:

That was 11 fumbles lost not 8. 14 total fumbles in 2003. 51 fumbles in the four full years starting. Don't get into WHEN in the games or WHAT the field position of those fumbles were.

I do agree the loss of Mueller was a negative to the entire organization. That had nothing to do with the on the field performance of the qb though. Anybody can win on a talented enough team. Being a Superbowl winning QB did not make Trent Dilfer an All-Pro. Plenty of truly good QBs on poor teams do make the Pro Bowl however (such as McNair in 2005). Brooks performance was only affected by the defense in how the game play calls changed. Jurgensen, Tarkenton, Fouts and Marino led Hall of Fame offenses on teams whose offenses were often as bad as the early 00's Saints.

Whodi, how about some Redzone data?

Whodi, how about some Redzone data?

Don't get me started, any more than I already am. :wink:

Lost in these facts is that we had the worst defense in the league in 2003, 2004 and the 2005 stats looked better because we were constantly behind because of the injuries to Deuce and Horn so the other teams offense went in to ball control mode.

I'M NOT SUPPORTING BROOKS... JUST SAYING THAT HE DID PLAY A LOT OF GOOD GAMES TOO. You guys give him no credit for the Saints being a decent team despite the fact the defense stunk worse than anything you can imagine. The offense always played good enough to win in this league and 90% of the losses can be directly attributed to POOR DEFENSE. I for one despise Venturi more than Brooks, yet you guys seem to give him a pass. Brooks played good enough to take us but you can't win without at least a fair defense. No body is addressing that but me.

I think anybody that wants to start a revelant Brooks thread should not be flammed on by all the nay sayers. Just STFU already. Look we all know Brooks short comings... it's just that I prefer to remember the good rather than the bad because he is gone now. It's time to mend wounds and move on. I don't want to get in to an argument on Brooks's carreer because we all bring up valid points. It's too bad that things didn't work out for him here, and I wish him well.

Kelly, the QBs you name never won the big one. Fouts had the best offense ever but no defense. Marino went to the big dance once. Tarkenton went with a good defense and Jurgensen was in a different time. How does this parallel Brooks?? Dude, I respect your point of view. Thanks.

The game never comes down to one play. NEVER. Sure you can point to one play but who's to say that the offsides penalty, the dropped pass, the missed block, the wrong route run and the defense that couldn't bail out a thimble on so many other plays didn't contribute MORE TO THE LOSS. I've played football for years and I tell you... blaming a loss on one play is wrong. The defense misses 20 plays a game and so we are forced to ask the QB to win the game despite the OL screwing up worse than Brooks. These are facts too guys. Leon can't do it all.

Why can't you guy see that Brooks was an average QB on a crappy team that was in way over his head and asked to win too many games by himself. No he wasn't Marino or Fouts.... few are.

Lighten up guys... your anger will be your undoing.

:crowd:

This whole thread is ridiculous. Foreverfan is just pushing his annoying agenda of bringing up AB whenever he can. He can't get over the fact that AB is gone. It's like AB has been messing sh** up so much, that now things have kind of gotten normal, this guy just wants it to be sh**ty again because that's what he's used to. Listen foreverfan, AB does own a lot of records in the Saints annals, but it's not because he's the BEST QB in franchise history. It's because of the era he played in and the good teams that surrounded him. YOu think AB would be anything without guys like Deuce, Horn, Stallworth? No. He's trash. He had some good games because he had Pro Bowl caliber players that he could get the ball to. He had flashes of brilliance, but they were few and far between, and very short lived. The guy is the most hated Saint ever because not only did he blow so many games with his dumb decisions, plays, and fumbles, but also because he seemed to never care. He would smile after blowing the game, smile after throwing an interception, and call out the defense when it was his dumb arse that was losing games. He's a talented QB, but that's as far as it can go. He's not good. He might hold records for passing yards and TDs, I bet he also holds the record for pass attempts, fumbles, and interceptions. Give it up foreverfan, this AB crap is really pissing me off.

YES YOU ARE. Holy crap, how dense can you be? You can't say, "I'm not supporting Brooks," and then go out and defend him. That's called supporting him. But it's not even that which is so annoying. This is:

THEN DON'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't even bring him up because you know what's going to happen, especially when you're going to say CRAP like this:

Crappy team? THey went to the playoffs. Half of that season (the better half with the better record) was played with Jeff Blake, not AB. Deuce, Horn, Turley, Bentley, Glover, Roaf, Williams. Crappy? Squirrel please. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yet you go ahead and say:

You're contradictions are almost as disgusting as your blind support of Brooks despite the cold hard facts.

Damn Deuce. All I can say to that is:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc16.jpg

I think I will exit from this thread since foreverfan persists in throwing out inaccuracies as fact-

Saints Defense
YEAR/ PTS ALLOWED RANK/DEF YDS ALLOWED RANK
2003/14/18
2004/28/32
2005/28/14

good? no. bad? yes. worst? one out of six , so, no.

As stated, the stats di look better because we were constantly behind. Maybe that is why AB racked up so many TD's and yds.

No flaming here. I'm glad to have ya aboard. I will correct erroneous suppositions forwarded as facts. In relative terms I will also contend with anyone who thinks Leon should be remembered as a good QB also. We won in spite of him more than we ever won because of him.

My point about those qb's is that they DO NOT parallel Brooks. They were legitimately great QBs that for the most part did play on either overall poor or at least very defensive deficient teams- yet they all still performed at All-Pro/HOF levels. That was AB's outrageously egotistic claim! The reality was that he was an erratic error-prone athlete on some bad teams. He has never even been to a Pro Bowl once.

I'll concede average on his better days. As I said, Shuler sucked worse but Leon still sucked too. Chrissy Everett might have had more records than him if he had stuck around long enough. Your commendation of him certainly sounds like more than what would be given to an average qb. If you keep the quoted point emphasized you probably could have better dialogue about him. I'd rather look forward than back though myself.

ive seen enough

pak, quick! any new news on AB that I have not read on this site before, in this thread? Because ya'll are straight up whipping my ass over an inconsequential subject matter that has been discussed on this board several times a week, for the past five friggin years. Anything new??? anything??? then shutup....