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HEY, A GUARD!!

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; FW again you\'re right. I shouldn\'t assume. It\'s just the people i\'ve known that worked for him in my 30 years in the business think a little different. If your friends are happy there,i\'m happy for them. I just hope ...

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Old 04-29-2003, 12:20 AM   #61
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HEY, A GUARD!!

FW again you\'re right. I shouldn\'t assume. It\'s just the people i\'ve known that worked for him in my 30 years in the business think a little different. If your friends are happy there,i\'m happy for them. I just hope you didn\'t assume that I disliked every rich owner in pro sports.
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Old 04-29-2003, 07:15 AM   #62
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HEY, A GUARD!!

I\'m not sure what to make of your posts, Joe. Are you blaming Benson for not having players that can lead a team? Did he somehow forbid Haslett and Loomis/Mueller to sign or draft players with that quality?
Haslett is ultimately responsible for the team\'s success. For now his track record is pretty good. He missed the play-offs, okay, but new Orleans is still one of the better teams in the league. He has been smart about who to play and who to bench. My biggest problem with Haz is his inability to admit there is a problem. Venturi is clearly out of his league trying to run the defense. Can\'t understand why the head coach is loyal to someone who makes him look so bad.
Same thing: The Brooks situation late last year. Coaches like players who play through injuries, who can\'t do this has chosen the wrong sport. So in my mind it was not Aaron\'s responsibility to demand to be benched, it was Haslett\'s to see what was going on and react. Instead he insists there\'s no problem and goes down with a hurt (or maybe just out of form) QB. It would have been a hard decision to bench the high-paid starter for someone who the organization would let go in a few months, but that shouldn\'t be his concern. Just win, baby. He was loyal once again and it backfired once again.

Haslett can be a good fit for this team when he\'s able to make the hard decisions. I can\'t see us going anywhere with Venturi as defensive coordinator.
Late season collapses: I just love one of Haslett\'s (I think it was him) theories why the Saints tanked. Working out in the heat everyday took too much out of the bodies of his players and they were just drained after seven or eight weeks. This week they\'ll mostly work out indoors to prevent that from happening again. One less excuse ...

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Old 04-29-2003, 08:17 AM   #63
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I\'m with you nocloning... Joe, are you saying that all of our players lack heart? That\'s why we tanked the last two years? Or b/c of bad elements in the locker room? Maybe guys become bad elements b/c they speak out when the ship starts to sink... ever consider that? I didn\'t hear anything about Turley being a distraction in the first 8 weeks of last season. But when he sticks it to Brooks about his poor play, now he\'s a bad element? Actually, I\'d probably define him as guy with heart... oops.

I don\'t know how Haslett can say he inherited this team of losers that he\'s had to clean out. Sure that was the case to some degree, but look at the hold overs from the Ditka days that he\'s gotten rid of. Roaf, Turley, Ricky Williams, Glover, Johnson, Delhomme, Charlie Clemons, Sammy Knight...

Two years ago it was the issue with Roaf and Horn. OK, they did house cleaning and brought in Cox to be a leader. Didn\'t work. Now, what are they saying? Well, we\'re cleaning out the bad elements and looking for leadership. You want to know what the biggest difference b/w the 2000 team and the last two teams was? The 2000 team still had all of the veteran leaders on it. The ones the Haslett has cleared out b/c they were overrated, overvalued, or a problem. That\'s the difference.

And nocloning is right about this, \"My players get tired being out in the heat BS\" too. Maybe Haslett were prefer to come up to Chicago and practice in the elements up here in December. Why do you think the Super Bowl is always in a Southern city?! If the weather is such a big deal why does the team do training camp at Nichols?!? Why not fly on up to Minnesota in August? That\'s crap.

There are no more excuses. Haslett has thoroughly cleaned out the Ditka players. He\'s got his guys, his coaches, his team. As an NFL coach you can\'t ask for much more than he\'s got. Get it done or get out.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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Old 04-29-2003, 02:03 PM   #64
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Ok guys I hear what you\'re saying. Really I think i\'m trying to agree whit you Whodat. WE NEED veteren leadership on this team. What I was trying to say about Heart is, when things start to go wrong, you can\'t just let it get you down. You have to put that much more into it. I\'m not sure this team knows how to do that. There in the veteren leadership comes in. We just don\'t have it.

As far as Benson is concerned. I think a team is only as good as it\'s owner. I think Mr. Benson should leave the playing to the coachs and the players. Let him deal with Loomis and the money. If he KNEW football it might be different. I\'m sure he knows business, he\'s proved that by the car dealershipe that he has. I\'m just not real sure he knows people and how to deal with them. Look at Mark Cuban, this guy\'s playrers would kill for him, because he treats them like they are more than just a pawn. He knows he knows little about basketball, so he leaves that part of the business to the people that do.
I hope this makes my feelings, and they are just that, my feelings, a little clearer.

Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

"Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.
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Old 04-29-2003, 03:09 PM   #65
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I hear you Joe. Not to harp too much, but I\'d say Benson doesn\'t know talent. He can\'t evaluate it. That\'s his biggest flaw as an NFL owner. That and he seems more concerned with money than winning.... and rightly so. Afterall, to him this is a business. His money is on the line. I will say that anyone who made it big as a car dealer HAS to know people though. If you aren\'t good with people you\'ll never sell anyone a car.
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Old 04-29-2003, 09:19 PM   #66
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I have to agree with you Whodat. However from my experience working for many dealers in the industry, it helps if you have good people skills as an owner in the car business but i\'ve worked for a few that had no people skills. Several took care of this problem by not giving the public the chance to get them into the game. That\'s why they had people like me. We handled the customer, the dealer stayed in his office and worried about his money. LOL
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Old 04-29-2003, 11:03 PM   #67
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i dont know if benson completly looks at this as a business, i know that he does to an extent but i mean all owners have to be fans of their team and all fans want their team to win, no matter what
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Old 04-29-2003, 11:40 PM   #68
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I am going to throw a small bone to Joesam here. Benson does treat this team as a business and he is looking out for the dollar, but doesn\'t every business owner.

A perfect example of Bensons hand in the business can be found in one of Glazers articles about the saints war room coverage. He writes that the saints were considering trading back up into the first round at #23 to pick up Bailey. Loomis had a conversation with Benson about the cost of making this move (ie. salary,signing bonus,picks cost) and Benson made the call to nix the deal.

I personally think it was the right call but this does shed more light on Bensons influence. I personally think Loomis had a \"blank check\" for the first pick but jumping back into the first round after taking a number 6 pick ...

I think the saints added more to the team by staying with the picks after the first trade.

As for the Mark Cuban comparison there is a huge difference there. Cuban works with a smaller group of players so it is easy to build that rapport. Cuban also has $4 billion dollars in his war chest. A fairer comparison would by with Tom Hicks. Here is a guy who will also spend money on players. In Hockey spending money proved to have a direct correlation to winning. In Baseball however, Spending money does not guarantee you anything if it is not used on the right position. I think football is more like baseball and I will use the Redskins as my evidence.
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Old 04-30-2003, 05:35 AM   #69
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produce is the key word gator....while most coaches expect players to play through injuries, they expect them to produce also.....haslett made a bad call by not letting jake come in to replace brooks who \"was not\' producing......although he may not admit it, it will be in the back of his mind next time......i am positive he\'s thought about it over and over but it\'s too late this time. as far as benson goes, i believe he stepped in and saved the saints from possibly going to another state, (correct me if i\'m wrong) and because it is his money he should have the say to who it goes to, other than that i think he remains in the background as he and all other owners should.......give me benson over jerry jones any day.......smitty
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Old 04-30-2003, 09:26 AM   #70
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Sure it is his money... but you also have to remember that this team is, quite literally, a corporation. Benson is the MAJORITY owner of the Saints, not the only owner. He owns the largest portion by far, true, but think about what that means if you\'re talking about a non-sports franchise.

It means that he would sit on a board and make decisions about the direction that the corporation whould take. He would be in charge of upper MGT - who was hired and who was fired. But he would never have a say in the day to day operations of the business.

For the most part Benson seems to be hands off to me. Certainly moreso than some owners. But he also gets involved sometimes when he shouldn\'t. Let me say this - I think Benson is the best owner New Orleans could hope for. He\'s fought to keep the team in New Orleans (a small market, which, by the way, is not his home town) while larger market cities were looking for a team. He\'s managed to successfully lobby the NFL many times to get the Super Bowl in New Orleans, and while his teams haven\'t always been great, I bet they are one of the top five or ten revenue generators for the entire state. Recently he\'s been bashed b/c he wants a new stadium. Well, look around the NFL. Everyone is getting new stadiums - hell, even the Bears are renovating Soldier Field. Either renovate the Dome for him or build him a new one. That\'s what I say. The $300 million that the State may have to fork out for a new stadium could be put back into the economy with a Super Bowl or two.

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\"
he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"
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