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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; http://foxsports.lycos.com/content/v...tentId=1223820 If you guys care... First-round winners and losers Winners : Cincinnati Bengals — Carson Palmer, QB Southern California The Bengals might have finally found their franchise quarterback — whoops — wasn't that the case a few years ago with ...

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Old 04-27-2003, 06:18 PM   #1
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http://foxsports.lycos.com/content/v...tentId=1223820

If you guys care...
First-round winners and losers

Winners :

Cincinnati Bengals — Carson Palmer, QB Southern California
The Bengals might have finally found their franchise quarterback — whoops — wasn't that the case a few years ago with Akili Smith? The Bengals had to go with a quarterback because Jon Kitna isn't the answer and they haven't been able to attract a respectable free agent starter. Palmer is a much safer pick. He has solid tools and is more advanced in terms of his natural feel for the game. But Palmer is no lock to become a great quarterback. The biggest question is how long it will take to pick up the mental side of the NFL game. Luckily, he'll be sitting the first season behind Jon Kitna.

Detroit Lions — Charles Rogers, WR Michigan State
This is an excellent pick for the Lions. They need to surround Joey Harrington with some weapons in the passing game. Rogers gives the Lions much needed size at wide receiver — especially in Steve Mariucci's offense. Rogers will create matchup problems like Terrell Owens does in San Francisco. Harrington and Rogers should be one of the most productive duos over the next several years.

Houston Texans — Andre Johnson, WR Miami
David Carr should be very happy with this pick. Johnson gives the Texans a dynamic target that really puts their passing game together. Johnson has the ability to make plays downfield, but can also matchup over the middle of the field. He'll be an asset for Chris Palmer. Johnson allows Corey Bradford and Jabar Gaffney to work out of more complementary roles.

New York Jets — Dewayne Robertson, DT Kentucky
Herman Edwards could finally have completed his defensive front. They have speed off the perimeter, but lacked quickness inside. Robertson provides the ability to make plays behind the line of scrimmage and put pressure on the quarterback. Opponents won't be able to focus on slowing down the perimeter without keying on the interior. It's critical the Jets generate more pressure from their front four to put their secondary in a better position to make plays on the ball. Robertson brings a real energy and passion to the Jets' defense.

Dallas Cowboys — Terence Newman, CB Kansas State
Excellent pickup by the Cowboys. Newman has the athleticism to matchup with any receiver in the league and he'll generate turnovers. They now have the ingredients to field a secondary that can matchup with anyone. The Cowboys should have an outstanding secondary with Newman, Derek Ross, and Roy Williams. Mike Zimmer will have the ability to become a lot more aggressive with his scheme. But the Cowboys must find a boost for their pass rush to maximize the matchup potential they have in the secondary.

New Orleans Saints — Jonathan Sullivan, DT Georgia
This isn't a major surprise for the Saints. Although they would have liked another cornerback, they also needed more speed from the interior of their defensive front. And it's no secret they liked Sullivan very much. What Sullivan brings to the Saints is the ability to provide interior pressure on the quarterback and make plays behind the line of the scrimmage. That was missing from the Saints last season. With Charles Grant, Darren Howard, and Jonathan Sullivan — the Saints should have a very strong foundation across the defensive front for several years. And that's what wins championships — a strong foundation along the defensive front. I'm not crazy about their cornerback situation because they will end up relying on Dale Carter as their matchup corner. And Ashley Ambrose is only an adequate second corner at this stage of his career. But they should be more stable and have numbers there than last season, which is why this isn't a surprise.

Jacksonville Jaguars — Byron Leftwich, QB Marshall
It's hard to argue with this pickup. Leftwich is a potential franchise quarterback. He's smart and possesses incredible leadership ability. Mark Brunell is on the tail end of his career and the new regime can't totally sold on David Garrard. Anytime you have the opportunity to draft a potentially great quarterback — you have to make the move for your football team.

Carolina Panthers — Jordan Gross, OT Utah
The Panthers really missed Chris Terry after he was cut. So Gross fills a huge hole at right tackle immediately and provides even more nastiness in the run game than Terry. But Gross is also a pick for the future because Todd Steussie isn't the long-term answer at left tackle. Gross will be a much better option at left tackle than Steussie ever was for the Panthers. He provides good character and toughness to the organization in addition to his football tools.

Minnesota Vikings — Kevin Williams, DT Oklahoma State
An awkward situation for the Vikings, but in terms of the football player — I like this move for Minnesota. Williams is an incredible interior prospect who has an excellent blend of size and quickness. Williams will be a disruptive player who takes the Vikings' front four to another level. His tools could produce several stops against the run behind the line of scrimmage, but also has the potential to produce double-digit sack numbers in the near future. Williams and Chris Hovan will create several problems for opposing teams.

Baltimore Ravens — Terrell Suggs, CB Arizona State, Kyle Boller, QB California
What a move for the Ravens! Suggs is an excellent value pick here, but let's look at what he brings to the Ravens. They have Peter Boulware, but lost the production behind him that they had during their Super Bowl season. Suggs is an excellent upfield player with advanced pass rush tools. Suggs shows incredible burst off the ball and has the quickest feet I've seen from a pass rusher coming out of the college ranks in several years. This move really takes the Ravens' defense back to a very high level. Defending Boulware and Suggs on the same field will be very tough for opponents.
And the Ravens made a very nice move by using another second round pick to add Boller. There is no question regarding his skills. Will he be a consistent passer and also pick up NFL defenses easily? We'll see. But the Ravens were the ideal team to pick him up with a second first rounder. Now the pressure is definitely on Brian Billick's reputation as a quarterback guru. The Ravens have two very strong prospects at the quarterback position with Boller and Chris Redman.


Seattle Seahawks — Marcus Trufant, CB Washington State
The Seahawks couldn't go wrong here. They've missed out on blue-chip corners over the past couple seasons and now have a solid prospect like Trufant falling to them. Trufant really solidifies their secondary and should upgrade their matchup ability. With Shawn Springs' future uncertain in Seattle — they couldn't hope for anything better. But until they upgrade their production upfront, we won't see the full potential of their cornerbacks.

Chicago Bears — Michael Haynes, DE Penn State, Rex Grossman, QB Florida
The Bears pick up a very underrated perimeter player. Haynes isn't a flashy pass rusher, but he does a lot of things well. He shows a great motor, plays with good leverage, and closes well on the quarterback. Look for Haynes to evolve into a very solid all-around end for the Bears.
Although the Bears traded out of the opportunity to get an immediately impact player, I do believe they may have gotten one of the best players that will come out of this draft. Grossman will be the Bears' answer to Rich Gannon and Brett Favre. Grossman is an outstanding competitor with good toughness and resourcefulness on the field. He's a Bears' football player.


Philadelphia Eagles — Jerome McDougle, DE Miami
The Eagles couldn't have come out of this much better than they did. McDougle is the perfect fit for Jim Johnson's defense. McDougle has very good speed off the edge and closes very well on the quarterback. As he learns to refine his techniques and moves — McDougle should be a very productive edge rusher. With McDougle and Derrick Burgess coming off the perimeter, the Eagles should have no problems generating pressure on the quarterback.

Cleveland Browns — Jeff Faine C, Notre Dame
I really like what Jeff Faine brings to the Browns. Faine is a rock in the middle. He can push guys around in the run game and gets nasty. Faine is everything Butch Davis wants and needs in a pivot player. Davis wants to establish a strong run game behind William Green. Faine is the ideal presence to have anchoring those efforts. And Faine also has the feet and feel to matchup well in pass protection. Faine is also a smart, blue-collar player. This is one of those players you want among your foundation on a championship team.

Indianapolis Colts — Dallas Clark, TE Iowa
Although the Colts have major needs on the defensive side of the ball, this isn't a surprise since this is a scenario I brought up early. I really feel Clark is a natural fit in the Colts' passing game. And it's a move that bolsters Tom Moore's double tight end scheme. Clark is a very natural athlete in the passing game and he'll be a better blocker than most people project because he'll work to finish blocks and prevent his man from making the play. I really feel the Colts missed Ken Dilger as Marcus Pollard's complement. Clark is a significant addition here who will create matchup problems for opponents.

New York Giants — William Joseph, DT Miami
The Giants badly needed more numbers and production from their interior line. Joseph has the potential to be a force in the middle of the Giants' defense. He needs to refine his overall strength and show much consistency against the run, but has top 10 tools. With Keith Hamilton coming off an injury and Cornelius Griffin posting disappointing numbers over the last two seasons, the Giants couldn't have emerged from this point of the first round with a better pick. Joseph provides the Giants some interior pass rush to complement Michael Strahan.

San Francisco 49ers — Kwame Harris, OT Stanford
The 49ers have been looking to develop a future left tackle over the two years, but lost out on the past few drafts. Harris has the tools to be that player, but something is missing with Harris. You would like to see a tad quicker feet and more power in the run game. I think its all about waking up and just being more assertive as he gains experience. Harris will work behind Derrick Deese for a year and then take over at left tackle. You can't argue with the value and potential with this pick. Harris will be a solid left tackle with the potential to be great in a few years if the light turns on.

Tennessee Titans — Andre Woolfolk, CB Oklahoma
One thing I was worried is that someone with an immediate need for a starter would pick Woolfolk, which would have been a mistake. Woolfolk is very raw at this stage, but has a lot of potential as a playmaker. But Woolfolk needs a lot of work on technique and recognition. That could come with experience and pro coaching. There isn't a better spot that Woolfolk could've gone. He'll work as a reserve without any pressure to make an immediate impact. In a few years, the Titans could have a potentially productive matchup corner.

Green Bay Packers — Nick Barnett, LB Oregon State
A lot of people might be surprised by this pick, but as you could see in my recent analysis, the Packers have shown serious interest in Barnett. Most people assumed that Boss Bailey was far ahead of the other players on the board at outside linebacker. But I mentioned that Barnett and Pisa Tinoisomoa were rated higher on some boards than Bailey. Obviously, that is the case here. Barnett is an excellent fit on the weakside for the Packers. He is very active in pursuit and matches up very well in pass coverage. It's imperative that the Packers get more production from their linebackers.

San Diego Chargers — Sammy Davis, CB Texas A&M
The Chargers badly needed to add another cornerback — especially someone with some speed to complement Quentin Jammer. Davis should be a steady starter with good speed and has the ability to make some plays on the ball. The Chargers finished in the bottom third in the league against the pass as their limitations began showing up.

Losers :

New England Patriots — Ty Warren, DT Texas A&M
I have a few questions regarding the value of this pick. There is no question Warren has talent. I have seen some very good moments from him on film and his tools are very solid. But will Warren show the motor and discipline Bill Belichick wants from the nose tackle spot? Warren has the quickness to shoot gaps and the strength to hold up at the point of attack. But he wears down too often — resulting in him negating his strength by playing too high.

Pittsburgh Steelers — Troy Polamalu, S Southern California
Polamalu gives the Steelers they speed they seek in the secondary, but the biggest question will be how he matches up when isolated in man coverage. Polamalu is a very aggressive downhill player who loves to attack the line of scrimmage. In pass coverage, while Polamalu has very good speed, he needs a lot of work with his footwork and his lack of height could hurt him in some matchups. And Polamalu could be vulnerable to play-action because he's so aggressive. While I love Polamalu, it's no sure bet he'll give the Steelers the matchup skills they are looking for here.

Arizona Cardinals — Bryant Johnson, WR Penn State, Calvin Pace, DE Wake Forest
There is a lot I like regarding Johnson in terms of Johnson's size and ability to work the middle of the field, but I don't see Johnson as a star receiver in the NFL. Johnson displayed very good speed in his workouts this speed, but that doesn't show on the field and he lacks the quickness to separate from tight coverage. His size will help him shield defenders from the ball.
I like the potential of Calvin Pace, but like the Johnson pick, you really have to question the value here again. Pace has a lot of potential with his size and athleticism. He showed good speed in his workouts, but Pace must show more quick-twitch ability on the football field. I would like to see more lateral quickness with Pace's feet. We'll see if his off-season workouts translate to the football field. I do feel due to pro coaching that Pace will be a much player in the NFL than he was at Wake Forest.

I graded Johnson as a number two starter at wide receiver and Pace as a potentially solid starter in a couple years, but is a number two starter and projected player enough to make up for passing up Terrell Suggs and Marcus Trufant?


Oakland Raiders — Nnamdi Asomugha, CB California, Tyler Brayton, DE Colorado
This is a hit or miss first round for the Raiders. Asomugha carries a high upside with his blend of size and speed. He can play inside and has the ability to project as a press corner. But the big question is instincts. I don't see him as an instinctive guy who will make a lot of plays on the ball. This could be another Derrick Gibson. Brayton has a very nice frame and the tools to be an impact player, but guys like this scare me. Can he turn the corner as a pass rusher from the perimeter? Has the physical ability to play the run, but must learn to play lower and use his strength more effectively. Players like Brayton carry high bust potential.

On the fence :

St. Louis Rams — Jimmy Kennedy, DT Penn State
Taking a defensive lineman certainly isn't a surprise considering the Rams have a few free agents on the board here next spring including Brian Young. Kennedy give the Rams a lot of size inside, but also has the ability to provide interior pressure with his deceptive quickness. In terms of value, this was the best pick they could have made because Boss Bailey was consider a stretch by most teams at 12. The only question is how hungry will Kennedy remain during the season? His weight management has never been a strong point.

Denver Broncos — George Foster, OT Georgia
I like the tools and potential Foster brings to the field. He has outstanding power and a very good frame. I want to see how Foster fits into their blocking scheme. He has the tools to significantly upgrade the talent level of their offensive tackle situation. They have no long-term answer at left tackle and Matt Lepsis' development has leveled off in the past two years.

Buffalo Bills — Willis McGahee, RB Miami
I have mixed emotions here, but adding McGahee gives the Bills several options. Obviously, they didn't have any huge needs, although I feel they could have added more depth along the defensive line and tight end. And they have Travis Henry as a very solid runner who is poised for a big year. So perhaps the Bills could leverage this move into a future trade if McGahee emerges as a productive back. In terms of his future in Buffalo, he gives the Bills very good depth at the running back position. But how will his knee hold up on the hard turf over the long-term in Buffalo?

Kansas City Chiefs — Larry Johnson, RB Penn State
It's a shame that Priest Holmes' injury has made the Chiefs move away from upgrading the defensive side of the football. Johnson isn't quite the same runner as Holmes. He's more of a steady, big back rather than a quick playmaker who creates matchup problems. Johnson isn't going to make the same impact as Holmes in the passing game, but he does show deceptive hands.


iceshack149 is offline  
Old 04-27-2003, 07:15 PM   #2
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Yes very good post Ice.
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Old 04-27-2003, 09:04 PM   #3
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HMMM...I HEARD SOMETHING BOUT A NEED FOR CB\'S BUT NOTHING BOUT \"OL.\" THE CHANCE WAS THEIR WITH RASHEAN MATHIS. WELL MAYBE WE CAN FIND A CB ON JUNE 1ST.
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Old 04-27-2003, 09:43 PM   #4
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I thought I\'d share this from Pete Prisco\'s article grading each teams draft:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6340621

Here\'s how the NFC South goes:

Grade: C-.

Atlanta Falcons

Best pick: Without a first-round pick, traded away to get Peerless Price, they had to wait until the second round to make a pick. So their best pick was getting Price.

Worst pick: They might have taken Penn State safety Bryan Scott too high in the second round, but he does fill a need.

Reach: Fifth-round pick Jon Olinger of Cincinnati has some skills, but there were more capable receivers still on the board when they took him.

Comment: Getting Price makes their draft in their eyes. After that, Scott is a need pick who will push for time as a rookie. Their grade is based on their picks, but counting Price, it would go up a letter grade or more.

Grade: C-

Carolina Panthers
Best pick: Getting Utah\'s Jordan Gross in the first round was a good move for an offensive line in need of a right tackle. He is a clean, safe pick.

Worst pick: Iowa center Bruce Nelson was taken a little high with the 50th pick, especially since this team paid big money for Jeff Mitchell a few years back.

Reach: Nelson.

Comment: They drafted a lot of players who will be contributors right away, and taking Gross was the right way to go. Liked the third-round picks of tight end Mike Seidman and cornerback Ricky Manning. Seventh-round pick Casey Moore is a good fullback for their offense.

Grade: B+

New Orleans Saints

Best pick: Ohio State\'s Cie Grant, their third-round pick, is a heck of a football player. He will push for time at weak-side LB as a rookie.

Worst pick: It\'s hard to pick out a bad choice, but second-round pick Jon Stinchcomb, a tackle from Georgia, won\'t be an immediate starter and is a little soft. He has to get stronger.

Reach: Some will say trading two picks to get Johnathan Sullivan was a reach. But they had him as the third-rated player on their board. If he isn\'t an impact player in the next year, there will be questions about this trade.

Comment: The wanted an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman and they got both in the first two rounds in Sullivan and Georgia teammate Jon Stinchcomb. Fourth-round pick Montrae Holland, a guard from Florida State, will prove to be a steal. Nice value on the two receivers taken late.

Grade: B+

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Best pick: They stole Chris Simms as the bottom of the third round. He will be their starter in a couple of years.

Worst pick: Fourth-round pick Lance Nimmo plays a little stiff to be a left tackle. He might be better suited to playing guard.

Reach: Nimmo went a little higher than expected.

Comment: Without a first-round pick (traded away to get Jon Gruden), the Bucs were limited some. But getting Simms in the third round will make this draft in three years. Louisville defensive end Dewayne White, the team\'s second-round pick, is a perfect Tampa Bay player.

Grade: C

Compared to the opther teams in our division it looks like we did pretty good this weekend.
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Old 04-27-2003, 10:02 PM   #5
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Works for me. Good post Scotty.
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