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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Ok I\'m confused? The Texans are projecting Orlando Ruff to start as an OLB? One other little thing Even as bad as my memory is Clemons did play OLB. Something like 10 1/2 sacks. But you are right about some ...

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Old 04-28-2003, 11:34 PM   #21
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Ok I\'m confused? The Texans are projecting Orlando Ruff to start as an OLB? One other little thing Even as bad as my memory is Clemons did play OLB. Something like 10 1/2 sacks. But you are right about some players not fitting a system.
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Old 04-28-2003, 11:52 PM   #22
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JOESAM. The Texans are projecting Clemons as OLB. also Clemons had 13 sacks that year.. but I am still pretty sure he was a MLB. I remember him blitzing up the middle a ton of times..
and hey, I might be wrong.. he might have played OLB that year but i don\'t think so.. Like I said.. everywhere I looked I saw him listed MLB and NOwhere was he listed at OLB
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:13 AM   #23
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okay, I just found out.. We are all right and wrong.. I found an article that indicates that Clemons was a MLB but states that on obvious passing downs he lined up as an end. SO>> perhaps WHODAT you are right.. Maybe Clemons should be moved to OLB. Maybe that would have been a good idea.. I can only surmise that the coaching staff felt he couldn\'t play OLB because he has trouble in pass protection. Too bad we will never know for sure what he could do as an OLB for the Saints but we can see him play OLB with the Texans.
Thought you guys might want to know that
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Old 04-29-2003, 07:36 AM   #24
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OK - not to harp too much on one guy, b/c that\'s not what this is about, but... I just wanted to show you that I do know what I\'m talking about. From NFL.com... in Clemons\' bio section....

2001
Started 15 games at middle linebacker (did not start in Week 4 because team opened in dime package) and led Saints with 123 tackles and 13.5 sacks for minus-96 yards ... had one interception (Oct. 14 vs. Carolina), five passes defensed, two forced fumbles and one fumble recovery on the year ... 13.5 sacks ranked fourth in the NFL ... set career-highs with eight tackles and three sacks Sept. 30 at the New York Giants ... Clemons later topped that career-best tackle number with 15 stops, Jan. 6 vs. San Francisco. He also had two sacks, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery in that contest.


OK - FB - as to a couple other comments you made. You described our system as one in which the Ends rush the passer, the DTs and MLBs are there to stop the run, the OLBs play pass coverage or blitz, and the corners and safeties play coverage. Thank you - you just described the base defense that EVERY team in the NFL plays.

The defense last year used fewer blitz packages, and less exotic ones at that. So if a guy like Knight doesn\'t fit an \"attacking\" defense (which is what I think you were trying to describe), then why was he a Pro Bowler on a defense that did exactly that.

Knight had a bad year last year for a plethora of reasons, very little of which, in my mind, was his fault. First of all, he had no one to sto pthe run in front of him. Our DTs and LBs put him in a position where he constantly had to come up and make plays. Our secondary was bogged down with injuries, and with the lack of talent, I suspect he was often put in a position where he had to choose to cover one of a number of open receivers. Finally, and probably most importantly, Venturi\'s system had him out of position all of the time. The BIGGEST problem with our defense has nothing to do with the players. It has everything to do with Venturi. Just llok at the difference between what Zook did in \'01 versus what Venturi did last year. Knight\'s play didn\'t decline. I doubt Clemons\' play did either. But they are the scapegoats for a system that often had the out of position - a situation that was only made worse by the lask of talent around them.

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Old 04-29-2003, 12:07 PM   #25
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I don\'t know WHODAT. I just looked on Espn statistics for 2001 and it listed Clemons as 95 tackles 76 solo and 19 assissts. I also saw his bio on NFL.com and it DID say 123 tackles. I don\'t know which website is correct. I guess we are just not going to agree about clemons. I think he should have been let go you think he should have stayed and played OLB. I guess we can agree to disagree.
It does amaze me that you continually defend Sammy Lnights lack of physical ability. I realize he can hit and tackle but he was just a liability in coverage. ITS A FACT. We got beat on intermediate and deep routes all last year. He and especialy Bellamy SUCKED. The trend on B&G today seems to be to rip on Rick Venturi.. Deservidly so.. I am not convinced of Rick Venturi either. However, people seem to be blaming Venturi for guys being out of position. MAybe its the other way around. Maybe no matter what position they were in they couldn\'t get the job done.
Oh, another thing.. You hit the nail on the head for me when you said that the blitz packages became less exotic and fewer and farther in between. THATS MY POINT. We couldn\'t do the blitzing we wanted to because we did not have a secondary. PARTICULARLY SAFETIES who could handle their assignments if we did blitz.
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:30 PM   #26
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has every one forgotten last years end to the minnesota game where knight lost moss in the end zone? how do you lose moss? you know he\'s gettin the ball, moss made the touchdown with knights back to him and knight staring of into space, i\'ll never forget that picture, our safeties were a huge liability last year, part of the blame might be picking up slack for the corners but in a league that is going more and more towards speedy players, knight and bellamy suck, if knight is so fantastic why hasn\'t he signed with anyone?

clemons should have never played the middle, houston has him listed as OLB and the style of 3-4 they play all four LB\'s play an OLB type role, i wish we had kept clemons and moved him to the outside and hunted for a MLB cuz hodge sucks in my opinion

another problem we have d is the amount man on man we play, we don\'t have the talent to play strictly man on man, this also might account for our late season break downs, it takes a lot more out of you to play man than it does zone, knight and bellamy got stuck in a lot of man situations last year where their lack speed was uncovered, with all the speed we have d we should be playing more zone, all i\'ve heard about our young d is how well they move to the ball how well they sniff out the play, you don\'t do these things while playing man

so maybe it is venturi

[Edited on 29/4/2003 by rusta]
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Old 04-29-2003, 12:34 PM   #27
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i have to agree with whodat on this one, and its not often i do but on this one i do.... no one was complaining about sammy not having speed when he was in the probowl 2 years ago, when he led the team in ints, fumble recoveries and forced fumbles... and even if he isnt the fastest safety.. his play was hampered by having no pressure from the rest of the Defense upfront... meaning he had to play up in the box most of the time to help stop the run and even the occasional blitz... here is another reason for the decline in sammys play... the loss of ron zook.... remember he was here when sammy was a probowler, and when he left for florida, sammys play declined.. if u can really call it that, he still had 5 ints and several fumble recoveries... i believe with more pass rush upfront it would have helped sammy out, considering he was the defensive MVP last year even with no pass rush at all

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Old 04-29-2003, 12:57 PM   #28
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The secondary CANNOT be entirely blamed for the lack of blitzes the defense used last year. One of your primary positions in getting a good pass rush starts right in the middle.....DEFENSIVE TACKLE. BOOYAH! Hand and Grady? They got so overly rotund by the end of the year, they had to get other people to tie their shoelaces. They were slow off the snap all season, even at the beginning when they were at their \"listed weight\". I do agree that Sammy is not a blazer on his feet, but he plays smart. More often than not, those smarts get you into a position where you can make the play. As for saying he sucked last year? I don\'t see that. He was constantly playing more of a linebacker position than safety, because the DT\'s and the linebackers couldn\'t stop the run. The reason why the linebackers couldn\'t stop it, is because they were trying to hold their positions WHILE backing up the non-tackling dummies at DT. With Sammy helping more on the run than on the pass last year, that leaves really 3 members of your secondary to cover the rest of the field. And people wonder why our defense was so bad? Because the run killed us so much, so did the play-action pass. Everyone ran to defend then run (i.e. Knight, Clemons), and left the field wide open. Screen passes killed us because no one focused on the backs coming out of the backfield. I\'m positive because it was out of shock that the opposing team wasn\'t running the ball on them, that they focused on the WR\'s and forgot about the other members of the offense. Sure the Saints didn\'t have the most elite secondary in the NFL, but they sure aren\'t the ones to lay the blame on. It all starts in the middle.

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Old 04-29-2003, 01:00 PM   #29
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and it doens\'t look like we\'re gonna have an increase in pass rush this year so why should we have kept knight?
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Old 04-29-2003, 01:08 PM   #30
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Two names: Jonathan Sullivan and Kenny Smith. Both of those guys will rush the passer MUCH better than Norman Hand. They are big, but not fat. They are strong, but fast. They have TONS more athleticism that Norman Hand. I\'m still not sold on Grady, either. If we had a starting D-line of Grant, Sullivan, Smith, and Howard, I would be more excited about their ability to rush the QB AND stop the run. That would then let the rest of the bunch STAY AT HOME in their positions. If they get this type of production from the D-line, you could very well see Tebucky or even one of these young linebackers in the Pro Bowl, because they are able to play the postitions they\'re supposed to play. I know I may be stretching it on the linebackers making the Pro Bowl, but I\'m kinda like that kid on Angels in the Outfield. It could happen!

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