Where exactly did he say he would be happy? He said, and I quote, "he could live with it." In case reality didn't show up in your mailbox, we were a 3-13 team that just got blown up. Even with the additions, players need time together to gel and form cohesive units. We totally revamped the O-line, and O-line is one of the main ingredients to winning for any football team. AND we play in the toughest, or one of the toughest, divisions in football. So even getting 6-7 wins will be difficult. Maybe we can pull a Miami where we start off slow and then build late in the season, which would be great. But expecting us to come out and win 9 and 10 games is simply a lot of kool-aid sipping, and unrealistic.

Hmm, so can we count you as not being a true Saints fan. What else is there, a faux Saints fan? The dude clearly said he could LIVE with it if we are HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. What's wrong with that?
:roll: [/quote]

Awwwwwwwww Come on guys, have Faith. The Saints will do much better than 7-9. I agree with the 9-7 or 10-6 figures. Just because we have been underdogs our whole lives does not mean we can't dream. And right now, with the offensive personnel we have it is time to dream. I'll even go out on a limb and predict that we will flirt with a wild card spot this year.

I DO BELIEVE !!! :saintsfan:

Okay, some people have sipped the kool-aid, and that's fine. They come every year. I am glad we have fans that are eternally optimistic, it actually does balance the jaded ones like myself. But I think I speak for any fan not predicting playoffs that we are ALL 100% excited about this team going into the season. But those who are expecting to count success in wins and losses only are in for a rude awakening IMO. Carolina went to the NFC champ gane, and got BETTER. Atlanta, on defense, got BETTER. We have to play the Steelers and the Ravens and the Benglas, and also a MUCH improved Cowboys team. These are some of the better teams in the NFL. If we are competitive against these teams, but come up short, I think we can count that as a victory for THIS team cause we have not looked competitive recently, at least not for any sustained stretches. I am just looking for improvement, and like Tally said, seeing us headed in the right direction. Anyone hanging their hat on 9-10 wins is gonna be in for a shock. I know, I know, we also got better. We most certainly 100% hell yeah did. But we were still behind these other teams who also got better, and we have a rookie head coach. Would I like to see 9-10 wins, hell yeah, it would shock my socks off. Do I expect it, no, but I do expect us to look much imroved over the team we had become the last few seasons, and that in itself is a victory. Before Carolina went to the Superbowl, they were 1-15, then 7-9, then Superbowl. Cowboys of the early 90s, pretty much the exact same thing, except they won the Superbowl. We aren't gonna trump in of those teams in one season.

Let me clarify my original statement. From an object standpoint, looking at our schedule and tough division and accounting for possible holdouts and injuries, I am predicting 7-9. Of course, I am hoping and would be delighted with a record better than 7-9 and especially a playoff berth. The division title is not out of reach, and neither is a Super Bowl victory. It would just be a major feat for a brand new coaching staff and a lot of new personnel to come together so quickly and reach loftier goals.

Yes I must say I am optimistic -- but sipping kool aid is a little overboard on the negativism. I believe we can be 9-7. Yes other teams have gotten better and we have a tough schedule - but I honestly believe we have as much talent as those other teams. I really think coaching had a huge effect on our performance. Our discipline was pathetic. Penalties -- stupid mistakes etc. I am willing to go out on a limb and say with this new coaching that our talent will be much more apparent. I could be wrong but I really see a breakout year for Stallworth -- Decue and the offense. Plus I see our defense being much better. Less turnovers, penalties and a new attitude will make a huge difference.

I'm not disagreeing with you 4ss, I am basically saying if anyone is gonna hang their hat for a successful season solely on wins and losses, then they are more than likely headed for disappointment and drinking the kool-aid. If anyone can't accept 7-9 and headed in the right direction would be GOOD for this team, then I don't think they realize how far we are actually coming from. Would 9-7 or 10-6 and the playoffs be better, HELL YEAH. But the season is not a waste if we end up 7-9, but we give several black eyes along the way to our opponents. That sets you up for winning down the road. Remember what happened Haz first year, we paid for that for the next 5 years. I'd rather they take their time and build a team that will be a consistent winner than hope we flash in season one and then burn out. Not saying Payton will allow that to happen, but there is recent history to say it could.

Say What? the reason that happened under haz is because he lacked discipline. Payton does not. Who cares how fast you get good. There is no rule that says that when you improve tremendously, you follow it up by burnout. The Saints can get good and stay good with Good coaching, and improvements in the years to come, but I want them to be good NOW, and i know they can be. I will always hold the team to high standards. That means expecting more from them than we think they can do. They will rise to the ocassion or they won't, but I will not speak mediocre dreams. Don't tell me about being realistic either, because that breeds mediocrity. The Saints WILL improve over the next few years, and when they do, WATCH OUT NFC South.

I DO BELIEVE

Heck I agree with you. A strong competitive team that is fun to watch and does not self distruct would be a vast improvement and I would consider this a successful season no matter what the record. I still believe that the last few year's mediocre to poor seasons have been more to do with coaching and discipline than talent. I cannot fathom how our offense could not score early in the games. I could not believe how many stupid turnovers and penalties hurt our team on both sides of the ball. I also do not believe that even if we win this year that will mean sacrificing the long term. Once again -- I think (and I could be wrong) that talentwise we have the ability to have a winning record this year. Especially if Bush is anywhere close to the talent everyone says he is. A Deuce/Bush backfield with one or both of them moving to the slot would create huge problems for any defense no matter how good they are.

Haz lacked discipline huh? That's now what they said when he first got here. The words "fiery, disciplined former player" come directly to mind. I also DISTINCTLY recall saying:

See, I covered Payton in this scenario. But still, it's not to say it can't happen. Believe whatever you want as far as what the record will be. But don't come back in the offseason calling us losers and say we underachieved when we don't reach those lofty goals. Improvement should be our main focus, we still have a ways to go to be on par with the wlite teams of the league, or even the playoff teams. If somehow you feel the hardest schedule in the league translates into the playoffs, knock yourself out. I believe one day aliens will actually land on the white house lawn and teach us the secret to space travel through wormholes. Boy, beliefs are fun.

When did I say they wouldn't? I actually said this is exactly what I want, and exactly what we should be focusing on this year, improvement.

I'm fully on board with you, if everything goes right, it COULD be this way. But for me, as long as we are week in and week out battling, and in every game, beating the teams we should and giving hell to the ones we shouldn't, I will see a complete 180 from what we have seen the past few years. Again, I am not saying we CAN'T have a winning record this year, but A LOT of things have to fall just right for that to be so.