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Dwight Smith released today???!!

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by gandhi1007 Originally Posted by saintswhodi Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper ... guess TB wasn't "chomping at the bit" that much to get Smith, since they offered no more than a 1 year deal if he couldn't sign anywhere ...

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Old 07-27-2006, 08:06 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by gandhi1007
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper
... guess TB wasn't "chomping at the bit" that much to get Smith, since they offered no more than a 1 year deal if he couldn't sign anywhere else. Now, Smith is going to the Vikings to compete for a spot against Tank Williams..

...which simply proves that no one was willing to part with picks for Dwight Smith.
Proves that in what way? None at all. Smith signed with Minnesota for exactly what he would have made the final three years here. It was reported Tampa was interested in working a deal with the Saints to get him, even after the Saints said they wouldn't trade him. All that proves is Tampa tried to lowball him once he reached the open market. Quite the reach there to assume that also means no one offered a pick.
Damn, whodi..... you beat me to the punch. :P Hey...wasn't Minnesota's defensive coordinator Tampa's secondary coach during Smith's time there. Hmmmmm.......why would he want that kinda' guy on his team again??????
...geez...from the annals of "I win because I rationalize my posts"...

Look, here's how it plays:
I said Smith is nothing but a solid player and that there was no real interest for him and that no one offered a pick for him.
I get the "Tampa is chomping at the bit to get him" response, and how there was league wide interest in him.

I''d say, it it painfully obvious that Tampa didn't want him that bad, because they offered him nothing but a 1 year deal if he couldn't find anything else. Had they wanted him that bad, or even plain wanted him, being that he's only 27-28 yrs old, I'd think they'd have offered him something more that a 1 year deal. So you think he was low-balled. WHy would a club do that? Maybe because the club knows there really isn't that much interest in him league-wide? Heck, it further proves my point that they reall didn't want him that bad if Tampa low-balled him.

Now, as for other teams, only the Ravens and the Vikings showed any interest. The Ravens didn't seem that interested to begin with, and he landed with his old coach in Minnesota. And he wasn't even brought in as a starter, he has to compete with Tank Williams for the spot. Had he at least landed with another team, heck not even as a starter, I'd have said "ok, there was some real interest out there", but we are talking about signing with his old coach...

What he's getting paid in Minnesota is not relevant at all. What is relevant, is that, given the evidence, no one wanted Dwight Smith so bad that were willing to trade anything of value - pick or player - for him.

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Old 07-27-2006, 11:53 PM   #62
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Sure guy, sure. Repeating it in a more long-winded form doesn't make it any more true.

I guess Edge James is not a good player, cause no one would give a measely second round pick for him when he was available, and he ended up in Arizona without visiting any other teams or fielding any other offers if I remember right. I guess we can draw the conclusion because of that scenario, no one in the league wanted Edge James, and he was lucky to glom on to anyone. I mean cause certainly, if a team offers you a good deal, and you take it without fielding all other offers, you can't be very good. Couldn't possibly be that what your team was asking for, was more than what other teams were willing to give. You couldn't have signed quickly, cause you wanted to be with a team before camp started. Oh, no, it's cause no one wanted you. Edge James, Dwight Smith, nobody wanted 'em.
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Old 07-28-2006, 06:39 AM   #63
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lol back at it I see. his contract.

Smith did not receive a conventional signing bonus as part of the contract, but the Vikings will pay him the $1.2 million he was scheduled to earn with the Saints before his release. He will receive a $615,000 roster bonus and a base salary of $585,000.

In 2007, Smith will receive a $100,000 workout bonus, a $500,000 roster bonus payable in the spring, and a base salary of $1.6 million. For 2008, the bonuses are the same as in 2007, but Smith's base salary for the final year of the deal jumps to $2.5 million.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2529748

He will be cut at the end of 2008 if the safeties need another year to develope. If not I would not be surprised to see him cut next year. He can play but he needs better secondary help to use his skills. with Minni's secondary loaded with ballhawkers he will do well.
Why give up a pick if you know the saints will cut him. like I said we played poker with mirrored sunglasses on. BRILLANT. It was th FO screw up. Not that no body wanted him. They just knew the hand we were playing.

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Old 07-28-2006, 08:22 AM   #64
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Why give up a pick if you know the saints will cut him. like I said we played poker with mirrored sunglasses on. BRILLANT. It was th FO screw up. Not that no body wanted him. They just knew the hand we were playing.
Exactly. Is it that hard to see? Same thing with Darren Howard. We could have traded him a year ago for a second round pick from the Cowboys or a first, #31 from the Eagles. No, not good enough for us. We turn the both down and Howard walks a year later for nothing. We could have put a non-exclusive tag on Bentley and gotten SOMETHING for him too. No, we let him walk for nothing. It's our MO. Our front office has NO IDEA how to handle a picks for player trade, and teams know all they usually have to do is wait us out. I wouldn't be surprised to see us sign Bush, cut Bennett and watch him go elsewhere for nothing. Saying nobody wanted Smith is obviously a ridiculous reach, or else he's dtill be looking for a team.
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Old 07-28-2006, 11:05 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Sure guy, sure. Repeating it in a more long-winded form doesn't make it any more true.

I guess Edge James is not a good player, cause no one would give a measely second round pick for him when he was available, and he ended up in Arizona without visiting any other teams or fielding any other offers if I remember right. I guess we can draw the conclusion because of that scenario, no one in the league wanted Edge James, and he was lucky to glom on to anyone. I mean cause certainly, if a team offers you a good deal, and you take it without fielding all other offers, you can't be very good. Couldn't possibly be that what your team was asking for, was more than what other teams were willing to give. You couldn't have signed quickly, cause you wanted to be with a team before camp started. Oh, no, it's cause no one wanted you. Edge James, Dwight Smith, nobody wanted 'em.
You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding.

You have officially become the new Billy.
Edgerrin James signed as a FREE AGENT. He was at the end of his contract in Indy. The Colts could've asked for a 7th in 2020, but, not only did everyone knew the Colts would not be able to afford to keep him, but also not very many teams had the CAP SPACE to get him at the time he became available- Edge will get $14.5 million in 2006 alone - , the situation made worst because of that lil' charade owners and the NFLPA played for a few months with the CBA extension.

So don't go making comparisons between a player - James - who few could afford and is tops in his position with a player that everyone can afford but not very many wanted bad enough to give anything for him, other than a salary. It just doesn't compare.

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Old 07-28-2006, 11:38 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Sure guy, sure. Repeating it in a more long-winded form doesn't make it any more true.

I guess Edge James is not a good player, cause no one would give a measely second round pick for him when he was available, and he ended up in Arizona without visiting any other teams or fielding any other offers if I remember right. I guess we can draw the conclusion because of that scenario, no one in the league wanted Edge James, and he was lucky to glom on to anyone. I mean cause certainly, if a team offers you a good deal, and you take it without fielding all other offers, you can't be very good. Couldn't possibly be that what your team was asking for, was more than what other teams were willing to give. You couldn't have signed quickly, cause you wanted to be with a team before camp started. Oh, no, it's cause no one wanted you. Edge James, Dwight Smith, nobody wanted 'em.
You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding.

You have officially become the new Billy.
Edgerrin James signed as a FREE AGENT. He was at the end of his contract in Indy. The Colts could've asked for a 7th in 2020, but, not only did everyone knew the Colts would not be able to afford to keep him, but also not very many teams had the CAP SPACE to get him at the time he became available- Edge will get $14.5 million in 2006 alone - , the situation made worst because of that lil' charade owners and the NFLPA played for a few months with the CBA extension.

So don't go making comparisons between a player - James - who few could afford and is tops in his position with a player that everyone can afford but not very many wanted bad enough to give anything for him, other than a salary. It just doesn't compare.
sure, sure man. Whatever you say. THE POINT IS, when he was offered for as little as a second round pick, no one bit on James, aPREMIERE player. Same with Shaun Alexander. Same with Corey Simon, who the Eagles were only asking for a 4th round pick for. Stay with me now, WHEN TEAMS KNOW YOU ARE NOT GONNA KEEP A PLAYER REGARDLESS, THEY ARE NOT GONNA GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO TRADE FOR THEM. How many teams you think were content to wait for us to release Dwight? At least 4or 5 apparently by who was reported as interested teams. We lost our leverage when we didn't accept a deal when it was initially offered, as confirmed by the article stating "TAMPA IS STILL HOPING TO MAKE A DEAL FOR SMITH." And guess what, once we released Dwight, he became A FREE AGENT, wow, just like Edge James. Amazing how that works. Keep reaching though guy. Real Stretch Armstrong here.
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Old 07-28-2006, 02:32 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper
Originally Posted by saintswhodi
Sure guy, sure. Repeating it in a more long-winded form doesn't make it any more true.

I guess Edge James is not a good player, cause no one would give a measely second round pick for him when he was available, and he ended up in Arizona without visiting any other teams or fielding any other offers if I remember right. I guess we can draw the conclusion because of that scenario, no one in the league wanted Edge James, and he was lucky to glom on to anyone. I mean cause certainly, if a team offers you a good deal, and you take it without fielding all other offers, you can't be very good. Couldn't possibly be that what your team was asking for, was more than what other teams were willing to give. You couldn't have signed quickly, cause you wanted to be with a team before camp started. Oh, no, it's cause no one wanted you. Edge James, Dwight Smith, nobody wanted 'em.
You are kidding, right? Please tell me you are kidding.

You have officially become the new Billy.
Edgerrin James signed as a FREE AGENT. He was at the end of his contract in Indy. The Colts could've asked for a 7th in 2020, but, not only did everyone knew the Colts would not be able to afford to keep him, but also not very many teams had the CAP SPACE to get him at the time he became available- Edge will get $14.5 million in 2006 alone - , the situation made worst because of that lil' charade owners and the NFLPA played for a few months with the CBA extension.

So don't go making comparisons between a player - James - who few could afford and is tops in his position with a player that everyone can afford but not very many wanted bad enough to give anything for him, other than a salary. It just doesn't compare.
sure, sure man. Whatever you say. THE POINT IS, when he was offered for as little as a second round pick, no one bit on James, aPREMIERE player. Same with Shaun Alexander. Same with Corey Simon, who the Eagles were only asking for a 4th round pick for. Stay with me now, WHEN TEAMS KNOW YOU ARE NOT GONNA KEEP A PLAYER REGARDLESS, THEY ARE NOT GONNA GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO TRADE FOR THEM. How many teams you think were content to wait for us to release Dwight? At least 4or 5 apparently by who was reported as interested teams. We lost our leverage when we didn't accept a deal when it was initially offered, as confirmed by the article stating "TAMPA IS STILL HOPING TO MAKE A DEAL FOR SMITH." And guess what, once we released Dwight, he became A FREE AGENT, wow, just like Edge James. Amazing how that works. Keep reaching though guy. Real Stretch Armstrong here.
No, dude. THE POINT IS that James and his situation has nothing to do with Smith and his situation for a myrad of reasons. But I'll simplify it for you:

James - everyone wanted him, very few could afford his salary.
Smith - anyone could afford his salary, no one wanted to give up picks for him.

So there weren't many articles saying "so and so are interested in James". So what? What's the point if teams didn't have the money to even come close signing him?

And I don't care how many articles were written about Tampa hoping to make a deal for Smith, the fact is, they didn't really want him, because had they really wanted him, he would be a Buc right now. How do you think the Bucs were willing to give up a pick for him if they don't even want to pay him, not even for more than 1 year?

It's simple: explain to me how is it that Dwight Smith is not a Buc if indeed Tampa Bay wanted him so bad and supposedly where willing to make a deal for him

But, hey, If you want to blast away at the F.O. for not getting a pick for a middle of the road player, go ahead.

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Old 07-28-2006, 02:54 PM   #68
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LMAO!! Um, the Cardinals OBVIOUSLY could afford James' salary, but they didn't wanna give up a second round pick for him when they very well coudl have did they? I can't believe I have to sit here and explain this. Let's try again: IF A TEAM KNOWS THEY CAN GET A PLAYER WITHOUT GIVING UP A PICK, THEY WOULD. And have, on numerous occasions.

So, um let's revise your attempt.

James-Cardinals wanted him, could have traded for him, knew he was gonna have to leave the Colts and waited
Smith-Vikings, Bucs, Ravens, etc. wanted him, knew he was gonna be released, waited.

Diiferent how? As far as Tampa goes, they tried to lowball Dwight, and he took the multi-year deal in minny that pays him the exact same thing we would have in year 2, 3, and 4 here, with bonuses. The dude himself said he wanted to be with a team before camps started, and he took a deal like the one he had. Yeah, that means Tampa didn't want him. They didn't even get a chance to match that. Keep reaching. Dude was signed after only being out there a week, and he had two other offers:

The Buccaneers and Ravens also made Smith contract offers.

According to ESPN.com, the Vikings will pay Smith the $1.2 million he was due to earn with New Orleans this season. He will get a $615,000 roster bonus and a $585,000 base salary. Smith is due to receive base salaries of $1.6 million and $2.5 million in 2007 and 2008, respectively. His workout and roster bonuses could total $1.2 million for the final two seasons combined.
http://www.startribune.com/510/story/574434.html


But hey, if you wanna keep on making reaches for a point I have yet to see very many people even agree with, have at it.
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:46 PM   #69
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Why give up a pick if you know the saints will cut him. like I said we played poker with mirrored sunglasses on. BRILLANT. It was th FO screw up. Not that no body wanted him. They just knew the hand we were playing.
Our front office has NO IDEA how to handle a picks for player trade, and teams know all they usually have to do is wait us out.
Diiferent how? As far as Tampa goes, they tried to lowball Dwight, and he took the multi-year deal in minny that pays him the exact same thing we would have in year 2, 3, and 4 here, with bonuses. The dude himself said he wanted to be with a team before camps started, and he took a deal like the one he had. Yeah, that means Tampa didn't want him. They didn't even get a chance to match that. Keep reaching. Dude was signed after only being out there a week, and he had two other offers:

Quote:
The Buccaneers and Ravens also made Smith contract offers.

According to ESPN.com, the Vikings will pay Smith the $1.2 million he was due to earn with New Orleans this season. He will get a $615,000 roster bonus and a $585,000 base salary. Smith is due to receive base salaries of $1.6 million and $2.5 million in 2007 and 2008, respectively. His workout and roster bonuses could total $1.2 million for the final two seasons combined.

http://www.startribune.com/510/story/574434.html


Thanks guys. I gave up on this debate. Some people will form their opinions based on assumptions, while some of us prefer to base them off of facts & common football knowledge.
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Old 07-29-2006, 07:25 AM   #70
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hey gandi you were not wronge.... completly. smith is a ball player. the FO blew it. we all knew what was going to happen months ago.
As for James he wanted out. When the QB and the best WR redo contracts to free money up for you and you still leave then there is more to the story than we know. Yes their contracts were structured in a way that FA was taking into consideration. They both mention him when they signed the contracts and why the contracts were structured that way. Then both manning and harrison went and asked him to stay in the off season but he did not. It is not that the colts did not have the money for him. He wanted out. Everyone knew it. the contract negotionations where not handled well the 2 years before and it pi##ed him of I guess.

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