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I was just wondering what people's expectations are as to next year. I think we have a really good team but I think Tampa and Atlanta are both SUper Bowl contenders and the Panthers are not so pathetic anymore- Stephen Davis could be the biggest impact fa this year. SO that being said, does Haslett ahve to make the palyoffs to keep his job or does he just have to keep this team hungry the entire year? I'd assume everyone agrees with me that one more breakdown at the end (regardless fo our final record) would and should be the end of Haslett (although I hope that does not happen b/c I think Haslett brings a lot to the table as a coach). Opinions?

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how do you figure atlanta is a super bowl contender?

they barely made the playoffs last year and they haven\'t really improved in the off season, they lost ambrose to us, they lost simoneau to philly, they still have no recievers

and don\'t give me that price crap, hes a deep threat who only accels with a solid possesion reciever opposite him (moulds?), one good year and now he\'s a superstar?

besides as often as vick almost got injured last year this will be the year he goes down giving atlanta an excuse for not making the playoffs this year

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Keeping in perspective that we are in arguably the toughest division in the NFL (NFC for sure), I think a major goal for this year is to be consistently tough to beat. I can handle losing when the team leaves it\'s heart and blood on the field and just gets beat by a better team. I can\'t handle it when we beat ourselves. If we lose both games this year to Tampa but leave them saying, \"I hate playing the Saints because you have to have your A game to even squeek out a win\", I am happy with that. If we give 100% every game all year we will make the playoffs and be at least 10-6.
Haslett has to get consistent effort. If another late season collapse happens he will be hung to dry. If we lose simply because Atlanta and Tampa Bay compiled better talent then he has done his job as a coach and regardless of how much input Haslett has on personnel, Loomis bears that burden.
I agree that the Panthers are building a solid team, maybe not a contender this year, but in a positive direction. The Falcons will be hard to beat as will the Bucs. We need to make every non-divisional game count and hope to get .500 within or we will be in trouble.
I\'m optimistic that things will gel on the defense and a faster group of athletes will benifit by playing a simpler defensive scheme where their athleticism will offset the lack of experience and/or instincts (depending on who we\'re talking about). I think the offense will only be better with the additions to the OL and TE and with a year in the system for guys like Stallworth and Pathon. Both are solid weapons. We really need Joe Horn back and cannot afford him to miss time with the club as a distraction.

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i have to disagree, i think carolina wil be a bigger threat next year than atlanta

carolina proved it had the def to go to the playoffs if the offense would just help a little, with the moves they made their offense has improved 100%

while atlanta has lost key players and not replaced them because they have been to preoccupied with the receiver position which they still have not solved unless one of their 4th or 5th string guys step up, atlanta went on a tear last year but who did they really beat? the only teams they beat last year that had winng records was us and NYG, they still barely made the playoffs

i think people give atlanta too much credit based on the popularity of vick, vick who\'s QB stats should not have gotten him into the probowl, which goes to show that being a probowler is slowly becoming the equivalent of being an allstar in mlb = pointless, vick is great, he\'s an awesome RB and a capable QB but a team doesn\'t become a super bowl contender based one guy i don\'t care what espn says

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In the NFC, I feel that the team that is going to win it all this year is a dark horse team. The team that didn\'t make the play-offs this past year. Look for New Orleans and Carolina... In the AFC, Miami and Tennesse

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it\'s gonna be a steelers/saints super bowl baby!!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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My expectations are always high every year. It\'s after game 17 in the season when my expectations are shot to hell. For this year? I don\'t see us missing a beat on offense as long as we get Horn in there and the rest of the team stays healthy. On Defense, even though Venturi is still there, I think the Saints have improved the team speed dramatically. I do think they\'ll hold teams to less than 20 ppg. I see a 10-6 or 11-5 year out of the Saints. Of course I would like better, but that\'s where I see them at the end of the season. Playoffs? Maybe.

As for the other teams in the division, here\'s my take on them.

Tampa Bay: Kept the core of their starters from both sides. My early favorite for the Super Bowl. Sapp could be a distraction running his mouth about his contract, but they\'ll still rise above it. Not much to say about them. Except I hope we take two from them again this year.

Atlanta: Don\'t expect these guys to make a repeat in the playoffs this year. They were very lucky last year. Vick is one \"blind-side shot from a free safety\" away from being a pocket passer or a flash in the pan. I think once he gets his teeth rattled a bit, it will take the spring out of his knees. Peerles Price \"Pfister\" is not the answer the Falcons needed on offense. He\'ll be above average at best. The rest of the receiving corp isn\'t very deep. Warrick Dunn is not a feature back no matter what anyone says. I\'ve never seen him more than a 3rd down back because of his receiving skills and elusivness. His small frame is also one lick away from being an NFL casualty. If they don\'t give the ball to T.J. Duckett more, then the Falcons will struggle. Defenses are piling up their defenses to stop the likes of Vick and any other mobile QB. Speaking of defense, the Falcons aren\'t that great in that area either. Decent, but not great. There weren\'t many changes on the defensive side of the ball with the exception of Ambrose. I have a strong feeling the Falcons are in for a long year.

Carolina: The Panthers have the best \"young\" defense in football right now. They remind me a lot of the old Saints with their ball-hawking style. They are definitely on their way up and I don\'t see much changing that any time soon. As far as the offense, Stephen Davis was a tremendous pick-up for them. The only problem is that the Panthers don\'t have a strong enough offensive line to block for him. Sure they drafted Jordan Gross, but he\'s a rookie. How many rookie offensive linemen have we seen drafted in the first round that have turned out to be total busts? Plenty. I\'m not saying Gross will be a bust, but I don\'t see him being the answer THIS SEASON for the Panthers. Maybe in the future. Now at the QB spot, we have Rodney \"Where in the hell did I come from last year\" Peete and homestate hero Jake Delhomme battling it out for the starting position. I see Jake getting the nod here. As much as I hated to see Jake go, I still don\'t see him \"settling\" into Carolina\'s offense very quickly. We loved him here, he knew the system, and he produced every time he stepped on the field. Jake is still unproven. I could be wrong, but Jake could see some struggles this year in Carolina. The receiving corp is decent, but I don\'t think they are going to be that major of a factor. It all depends on that offensive line.

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damn skippy D2

that\'s what i was trying to say only i was less eloquent

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Point taken on Atlanta not being a SuperBowl contender, but I think you guys are dismissing them a bit too easily. Michael Vick was an all-pro last year and he damn well earned it. It is possible he could be an even better passer next year (some qb\'s have been known to improve with experience). If Duckett comes into his own, this team could have the best running game in football. No Dunn is not an every down back but he sure as hell ran over us last year. We had no idea how to defend Vick last year and while we may get better at it, we looked like a jv high school football team when he was on the field. Price may not be a superstar but he is an upgrade for that team. Ambrose was not a loss b/c they signed tyrone williams from gb (probably a better palyer than ambrose). Brooking and Kerney are unbelievable players (I cant name a star on our D).
My point is we could very well finish last in this tough division but that does not mean (in my opinion) haslett will do a bad job. I think this division is anybody\'s to win (and anybody\'s to finish fourth in too). So while I think 10-6, 11-5 is possible, so is .500. Would my fellow Saints fans call for Haslett\'s head if we finish out of the playoffs, or are there circumstances where Haslett does a masterful job running the show despite falling short of our goals?

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D it up is right about Vicks vulnerability. And truck is probably right in assuming that Vick will be a better QB and not so much of an RB due to the slight upgrade at receiver and the use of Duckett more AND his coaches making him stay in the pocket more.

I don\'t think that the Panthers have everything in place just yet. Peete? Wow that guy is old. And Delhomme looked good for those few plays that he was involved in with New Orleans, but he has yet to prove that he can hang in a complete NFL game. Who know\'s if Weinke gets another chance? This is a better team than the one he had led two years ago so maybe he gets another chance.

Tampa? Thier offense is not that great. Brad Johnson made them better than they actually were. You knock him out and they suffer, having to depend on their defense for touchdowns--which they can do. And did last year.
And c\'mon, Vick over Johnson for probowl vote? Bunk.

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My guess for this coming year is, the NFC South will be an all out battle. This is one division where nobody likes anybody. I honestly think every team in the division got better this offseason. I really don\'t think there will be a clear cut winner in this division until the last weekend of the season. At this point in time I wouldn\'t even hazzard a guess who will take the top spot. It\'s far to early for that.

P.S. Don\'t count on Mike Vick to be any worse than last year. Sure we all (NFC teams) have a year under our belt to try to defense him but remember he had a year too. I look for him to be BETTER than last year. That scares the hell out of me. We got faster on defense, I just hope we got fast enough.

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i might be crazy on this one but i don\'t think tampa is going to make another run this year, think about it they have had virtually the same team for the last 4-5 years, they have had the talent for years, they lacked motivation which is what gruden gave them, but how much motivation can they have coming off a super bowl win, having their team captian talking about not being a buc after this year, they lost a few key players, for people with past motivation problems i question their drive for this year

atlanta...well again i think people give vick too much credit, the only things people seem to remember are highlight reels, look at vick\'s numbers from last year, not probowl stuff there, the only reason his INT\'s were low and his % decent was cuz he never threw the damn ball, this year he will run less and throw more, just like AB in his second year as a starter, you\'re going to see his INT\'s go up considerably due to throwing more often, also his running is a circus act like the rams offense a few years ago, it\'s only gonna take this year and maybe next before everyone starts copying what the bucs have done against him, as far as their running game, i\'m sorry truck but i think you are way off on this one, they might have run on us but who didn\'t run on us last year? dunn/duckett is going to be another failed barber/dayne experiment, and dunn is no barber

i think people are underestimating carolina big time, look at last year\'s games, very rarely did carolina get blown out last year, 4 of their 9 losses were only by a field goal, and their offense has made huge strides, davis is a beast when healthy, dyson and proehl while not super stars have loads of playoff experience and know what it takes to win and are solid performers, muhamed is no slouch, as far as delhomme even if you don\'t think he\'s that good...how much worse can he be than peete or weinke? remeber they went from 1-15 to 7-9 in one season and i don\'t remeber them signing anyone real good other than peppers in the offseason last year

providing that we don\'t have another end of year collapse i predict the division to finish like this:

1. NO
2. TB
3. CAR
4. ATL

i think the differance between TB and CAR finishing 2nd (which probably will be a wild card spot) will come down to a one game differance

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You cannot dismiss a single thing in the South- you can try, but you\'ll end up with egg on your face.

This was the best point made in this entire thread. I think a few of you are too eager to see Vick fail- hell, I\'m guilty too. Yeah, we\'ve had a year to analyze Vick, but guess what- the guy is 22 years old. He\'s not even close to approaching his prime yet. I would look for his completion percentage to jump up into the 60% range this year, while his yards rushing to drop into the 500 yard range (similar to what happened to Brooks). All those talking about it\'s only going to take one hit, hell, he was sacked 33 times last year. It wasn\'t like he was completely protected throughout the year- less we forget that playoff game against Philly? Great thing about Atlanta is they had a crap-tacular draft. Experts are saying that Tampa did poorly as well, but I don\'t see it. White is a tough SOB who was a high 2nd rounder, that fell to them. He\'ll start in the future. Simms was a smart pick, as they will have time under Johnson to groom him for the future. They reached on a couple of picks, but should be happy with the results, considering they didn\'t have a 1st rounder this year. But who needs it when you are as stacked with talent as Tampa is.
Carolina, like the rest of you, scares me. They did damn good in free agency and damn good in the draft. They didn\'t get one starter on the offensive line, they got two. Nelson is a monster of a man, once he gets into an NFL program, he will gain the necessary weight and start for this team. But he may not start until next year. They addressed key positions in free agency that have upgraded their team tremendously (dammit, now they have a running game).
But hey, we did good in the draft as well. We have two players that will start this year (yes, eventually Riley will piss the coaching staff off enough that they will start Stinchcomb, who has tremendous upside- forget about what you\'ve read thusfar at the mini-camps), and a possible 3rd player who could start next year (Holland). Mark every friggin word I\'ve typed here, and come back for review after next season.

[Edited on 9/5/2003 by BlackandBlue]

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Quote:


No Dunn is not an every down back but he sure as hell ran over us last year.

Who didn\'t?

Quote:

I think a few of you are too eager to see Vick fail-

Yeah, I\'m guilty of it. My whole point on Vick, though, is that if he IS forced to play from the pocket more, his numbers will be average to just above average. If this guy isn\'t using his legs, then he\'s not near as much as a threat. I can see it now.

\"Vick drops back....can\'t find a receiver open....he scrambles....looks like he\'s got a lot of room to run.....OHHHHHHHHH....OUT OF NOWHERE TEBUCKY JONES CLOBBERS HIM FROM THE BLIND SIDE....THERE ARE TEETH LAYING ALL OVER THE FIELD\"

Gotta love the American dream

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As far as Vick is concerned, I think his progress as a QB depends on what type of QB he intends to emulate. I think the two best examples for him are J. Garcia and D. McNabb. The problem is McNabb is a pocket passer with great running ability which is not something Vick is capable of at this stage in his career. He spent way too much time running last year for him to get much experience with being a pocket passer. If he tries this, it\'ll be a disaster. If he plays more like Garcia, he is going to continue to be dangerous. His best bet for succes this year is to be like Garcia and run at every opportunity. however, this approach will stunt his growth as an intelligent QB and when his legs finally wear down, he wont have that pocket passer exerience to fall back on.

Thus, I think Atl will be good if Vick is still a runner and not so good if Vick spends the season learning to be a pocket passer.

Carolina has made some good moves this offseason, but I don\'t look for them to be much better than last year. Remember, they benefitted last year from 1st year euphoria - meanng they were all pumped coming into Fox\'s 1st year as a Headcoach. I think there will be a bit of an emotional let down from the entire team. Also, their offense was horrible last year which obviously helped their defensive stats. If you\'ll recall the year we had Shuler at QB, our D was ranked 4th in the NFL. That was mainly because our offense kept turning the ball over on our side of the field. Opposing offenses needed to go only 30-40 yards each possession to score. That kept our defense stats looking better than the defense really was. The same applies to Carolina although I think their D is closer to what we saw last year than ours was in the past situation I described.

Regardless of all the other reasons, TB will have a hard time this year simply because they are SB champs. I don\'t see them as having a leader that can control their emotions like the Broncos had in Elway when they repeated. I think with this team it\'ll really come down to whether Sapp is their leader or someone like Derrik Brooks takes the lead. If it is Brooks, they\'ll have a better shot.

Bottomline, I think the Saints and the Bucs will fight it out for the 1st spot, leaving the other in 2nd (wildcard). 3rd and 4th will be determined by Vick and how he decides to approach this year regarding his career. If he\'s willing to learn this year (instead of just going out and making plays with his legs), the falcons aren\'t going to be good, but will be deadly in the future.

Of further note, if AB\'s shoulder doesn\'t heal well, you can put the Saints at the bottom unless Bouman really turns into something now that he\'s in the better part of the country.

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I pretty much agree with everything said by all regarding the other teams in our division. My only point is I could just as easily see us fourth as I could first. Regardless of whether Atlanta will be good or not, we have yet to stop Vick. Who cares if the guy runs or throws, he won two games for his team against us. And yes he deserved to make the pro bowl- stats are not everything. He single handedly won more games for his team than any other player in football last year- period (see Atl v Minnesota, see Atl v Saints). Carolina will be improved and they could even steal the division (and they could also finish fourth). If Dellhome is good and Stephen Davis is healthy, their D is straight up better than ours. Tampa, while they may not be as good as last year, won the Super Bowl. SO I think they have as good a shot as anyone at this division too. I agree with the point made that Sapp may be a distraction but the guy has always been a professional and it is also possible that he plays his tail off to cash in next year (contract years do have that effect on some players).
I think we have a really good shot next year but let\'s not forget that we are a total wild card. Ruff and Tebucky have NEVER dominated in the NFL before. Sullivan is a rookie. Our corners could wear down b/c of age (or drugs). Plus, Brooks has yet to show that he is a leader. I love the guy and want him to succeed but he teases you with great performances followed by games where it seems he doesn\'t even care to be on the field. Was it b/c of injury last year? I sure as hell hope so. SO while I think Rusta\'s division predictions are pretty accurrate, I do not feel that we are a lock to win or come in second in this division.