Payton-Haslett

LKelley67 · 10-02-2006, 12:13 PM

We're getting to know our new HC. Thusfar, not perfect but I am very happy. Not just with wins but the overall play. For a group that seemed to lack so much in talent they certainly are performing well. We were the #1 UNDERachieving team in the league after Haslett's first year. That way, so long and so much that people quit expecting anything and started predicting failure- which inevitably came hurricane or no hurricane. I am loving the OVERachievers label! That makes me anxious to see what happens with even more talent added to the mix.

I was reading something on PFT about the Fins that crystalized something I think is a most basic difference between the Haz years and the new regime.l Tell me if you agree...

We're firm believers in designing an offense each year to fit the specific strengths (and hide the weaknesses) of the players who'll be executing it. A playbook, in our view, is a fluid, dynamic thing, which should be changed on the fly as necessary. The job for the coaches is to understand what the personnel can and can't do, and instead of trying to get the players to do things they can't the coaching staff should put together an attack that highlights the things they can.

Euphoria · 10-02-2006, 01:28 PM

Wait... once we had tons of talent now we have no talent? I think the difference is that Payton isn't married to any one player, although he is trying like hell to get Bush into the endzone. Payton coaches like Parcels without a doubt! You can tell in the way he gets players and game plans.

Madmarsha · 10-02-2006, 02:25 PM

instead of trying to get the players to do things they can't

Boy, to me this is about as succinct as you can say what Haslett et al were doing and to a fault.

And great point about UNDERachievers/OVERachievers. Two different things, two different feelings, and it sure looks as though it's the latter this year and it's definitely a better feeling. (I'm perhaps way too excited but this is the first NFL team I've ever been emotionally invested in as a fan! )

Tobias-Reiper · 10-02-2006, 02:25 PM

Even in 2000, I posted somewhere else that the 2000 Saints were winning games on talent alone . Hell yes I was as happy as anyone with the success, playoff win, and that Ditka was no longer the coach, but I didn't think that the success the Saints had were a direct consequence of coaching. Now, Ditka was such a horrible coach with the Saints, that Haslett's youth and "working" 20 hour days and did bring hope to those players, which translated in the success the Saints in 2000. But I still think it was the players and the players' talent that got those wins.

Euphoria · 10-02-2006, 02:48 PM

I am a believer that you need to clean house once every so often because the job doesn't become WIN WIN WIN, and football... it becomes more of just a job.

LKelley67 · 10-02-2006, 11:50 PM

Clean a little at a time, all the time, every year or let it build up like it did with Haz and have to completely remodel. Payton isn't a copycat or clone but I do see a lot of Parcells. His comments about Stallworth were some of the most insightful. Such as, "I was waiting for him to show me something..." No debate on Donte and why nothing was seen. The point is, it is a 'show me whatcha got' approach. No player has a job given to them. It has to be earned. Not just training camp either, game to game and practice to practice. No performance and you have no job.

neugey · 10-04-2006, 12:19 PM

Clearly, Payton is a better coach than Haslett when it comes to strategy and in-game adjustments. If the team continues to play well more consistently like we have seen so far this year and not suffer meltdowns, then it's clear that Payton is also a much better motivator as a head coach. I still think Haslett could have been a good coach beyond year 1 had things not fallen apart in the organization. Mueller's departure was a big setback and the defection of Ron Zook to Florida (darn Spurrier and his NFL pipe dream) crippled our defense. The organization and Haslett himselff compounded the problem by making bad personnel decisions from there and adding mediocre candidates to the coaching staff.

10-02-2006, 01:28 PM	#2
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	RE: Payton-Haslett Wait... once we had tons of talent now we have no talent? I think the difference is that Payton isn't married to any one player, although he is trying like hell to get Bush into the endzone. Payton coaches like Parcels without a doubt! You can tell in the way he gets players and game plans.

10-02-2006, 02:25 PM	#3
Madmarsha Registered Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Section 305 Posts: 97	RE: Payton-Haslett instead of trying to get the players to do things they can't Boy, to me this is about as succinct as you can say what Haslett et al were doing and to a fault. And great point about UNDERachievers/OVERachievers. Two different things, two different feelings, and it sure looks as though it's the latter this year and it's definitely a better feeling. (I'm perhaps way too excited but this is the first NFL team I've ever been emotionally invested in as a fan! )

10-02-2006, 02:25 PM	#4
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Even in 2000, I posted somewhere else that the 2000 Saints were winning games on talent alone . Hell yes I was as happy as anyone with the success, playoff win, and that Ditka was no longer the coach, but I didn't think that the success the Saints had were a direct consequence of coaching. Now, Ditka was such a horrible coach with the Saints, that Haslett's youth and "working" 20 hour days and did bring hope to those players, which translated in the success the Saints in 2000. But I still think it was the players and the players' talent that got those wins.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

10-02-2006, 12:13 PM	#1
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Payton-Haslett We're getting to know our new HC. Thusfar, not perfect but I am very happy. Not just with wins but the overall play. For a group that seemed to lack so much in talent they certainly are performing well. We were the #1 UNDERachieving team in the league after Haslett's first year. That way, so long and so much that people quit expecting anything and started predicting failure- which inevitably came hurricane or no hurricane. I am loving the OVERachievers label! That makes me anxious to see what happens with even more talent added to the mix. I was reading something on PFT about the Fins that crystalized something I think is a most basic difference between the Haz years and the new regime.l Tell me if you agree... We're firm believers in designing an offense each year to fit the specific strengths (and hide the weaknesses) of the players who'll be executing it. A playbook, in our view, is a fluid, dynamic thing, which should be changed on the fly as necessary. The job for the coaches is to understand what the personnel can and can't do, and instead of trying to get the players to do things they can't the coaching staff should put together an attack that highlights the things they can.

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10-02-2006, 02:48 PM	#5
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	I am a believer that you need to clean house once every so often because the job doesn't become WIN WIN WIN, and football... it becomes more of just a job.

10-02-2006, 11:50 PM	#6
LKelley67 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: baton rouge Posts: 2,540	Clean a little at a time, all the time, every year or let it build up like it did with Haz and have to completely remodel. Payton isn't a copycat or clone but I do see a lot of Parcells. His comments about Stallworth were some of the most insightful. Such as, "I was waiting for him to show me something..." No debate on Donte and why nothing was seen. The point is, it is a 'show me whatcha got' approach. No player has a job given to them. It has to be earned. Not just training camp either, game to game and practice to practice. No performance and you have no job.

10-04-2006, 12:19 PM	#7
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,591 Blog Entries: 13	Clearly, Payton is a better coach than Haslett when it comes to strategy and in-game adjustments. If the team continues to play well more consistently like we have seen so far this year and not suffer meltdowns, then it's clear that Payton is also a much better motivator as a head coach. I still think Haslett could have been a good coach beyond year 1 had things not fallen apart in the organization. Mueller's departure was a big setback and the defection of Ron Zook to Florida (darn Spurrier and his NFL pipe dream) crippled our defense. The organization and Haslett himselff compounded the problem by making bad personnel decisions from there and adding mediocre candidates to the coaching staff.