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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Tobias, with all due respect -- because I see what you're saying -- I disagree. Roids, if tolerated, would be abused at a greater level. Roids do precisely what you say. I'm not arguing that, but they allow the taker ...

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Old 10-24-2006, 05:47 PM   #11
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Tobias, with all due respect -- because I see what you're saying -- I disagree. Roids, if tolerated, would be abused at a greater level. Roids do precisely what you say. I'm not arguing that, but they allow the taker to work out faster, harder, and for a longer period of time than the non taker. Now, I'm no expert, but I've had personal trainers and one current NFL player tell me that. Do we allow players to get prescriptions for Roids in the interest of recovery? I'm not necessarilly against that other than to say there are a lot of Dr's that'll prescribe anything if the price is right.

I disagree with the statement "if they don't do it their bodies wouldn't be able to take the punishment". I'm willing to bet there are NFL players that don't take roids and play the game for many years. If a guy uses roids for otherwise honest reasons -- like recovery from injury -- he's doing something other players don't have to do.

Lots of drugs have valid uses, but there are tons of examples of misuse causing tragedy.

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Old 10-24-2006, 08:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tobias-Rieper
Originally Posted by gfanaticlsu
idiot

...hmmm....

.... playing football hurts. It is said that playing a game in the NFL is the equivalent of being in 20 car crashes... in 3 hours...

Steroids aren't evil. They have valid medical uses, as in reconstructing muscle tissue, and I don't mean just biceps. Why wouldn't you give them to a person who's gone through 20 car crashes in 3 hours? We want faster, stronger football players, bigger and harder hits, and get all bummed out when a player doesn't seem to get past injuries. We had no issues with cortisone or morphin-based pain killers being injected into these guys to send them right back into the field after they get injured... so really, why not allow these guys in a controlled manner - as in preventing mis/over use - to give them the physical ability to withstand the punishment their bodies go for 7-8 months a year?
With that said I do believe a few players cross the line and abuse enhancement drugs.

Steroids by themselves do no "enhance" your performance. That's a huge misconception. If you just inject steroids in you, you are going to get fat/puffy, and whatever muscle tissue that's hurt will heal faster that it'd heal by itself. But you are not going to run faster, or hit harder, or throw the ball further. You'd still need to lift the weights, run the sprints, etc... and they are not going to improve your game : they are not going to give you better field vision, or sideline awareness, or make you a better tackler, or read defenses, etc...

".... playing football hurts. It is said that playing a game in the NFL is the equivalent of being in 20 car crashes... in 3 hours... "

One of the reasons Tiki Barber wants to retire after this season, I heard him say last night that the fans don't see how much punishment a RB takes during the season, he said it's like Thursday before he start feeling better..
Anyone see how hard Tiki hit the turf last night?, it really looked bad, his body looked as if it bounced 2 feet off the turf..
With that said I believe a few players abuse enhancement drugs just to help make the season, what I can't understand is why, I mean they can lose a lot of money with suspensions, I guess to them it's worth the risk.
IMO I don't think Tiki takes or abuses enhancement drugs.

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Old 10-25-2006, 07:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper
Originally Posted by gfanaticlsu
idiot

...hmmmm....

.... playing football hurts. It is said that playing a game in the NFL is the equivalent of being in 20 car crashes... in 3 hours...

Steroids aren't evil. They have valid medical uses, as in reconstructing muscle tissue, and I don't mean just biceps. Why wouldn't you give them to a person who's gone through 20 car crashes in 3 hours? We want faster, stronger football players, bigger and harder hits, and get all bummed out when a player doesn't seem to get past injuries. We had no issues with cortizone or morphin-based pain killers being injected into these guys to send them right back into the field after they get injured... so really, why not allow these guys in a controlled manner - as in preventing mis/over use - to give them the physical ability to withstand the punishment their bodies go for 7-8 months a year?

Steroids by themselves do no "enhance" your performance. That's a huge misconception. If you just inject steroids in you, you are going to get fat/puffy, and whatever muscle tissue that's hurt will heal faster that it'd heal by itself. But you are not going to run faster, or hit harder, or throw the ball further. You'd still need to lift the weights, run the sprints, etc... and they are not going to improve your game : they are not going to give you better field vision, or sideline awareness, or make you a better tackler, or read defenses, etc...

I think roids cause cancer, or something. Also roid rage? The benefits of roids is temporary, and short term. The long term affects are devastating. (see lyle Alzado).
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:38 AM   #14
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by saintfan
Tobias, with all due respect -- because I see what you're saying -- I disagree. Roids, if tolerated, would be abused at a greater level. Roids do precisely what you say. I'm not arguing that, but they allow the taker to work out faster, harder, and for a longer period of time than the non taker. Now, I'm no expert, but I've had personal trainers and one current NFL player tell me that. Do we allow players to get prescriptions for Roids in the interest of recovery? I'm not necessarilly against that other than to say there are a lot of Dr's that'll prescribe anything if the price is right.

I disagree with the statement "if they don't do it their bodies wouldn't be able to take the punishment". I'm willing to bet there are NFL players that don't take roids and play the game for many years. If a guy uses roids for otherwise honest reasons -- like recovery from injury -- he's doing something other players don't have to do.

Lots of drugs have valid uses, but there are tons of examples of misuse causing tragedy.
I see what you are saying, but substance abuse is an issue in our society as a whole. People abuse all sort of substances, being alcohol, uppers, downers, prescription drugs... on the other hand, why deny them treatment or the use of a particular substance that any other person can get to solve a medical condition?
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by nedly
Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper
Originally Posted by gfanaticlsu
idiot

...hmmmm....

.... playing football hurts. It is said that playing a game in the NFL is the equivalent of being in 20 car crashes... in 3 hours...

Steroids aren't evil. They have valid medical uses, as in reconstructing muscle tissue, and I don't mean just biceps. Why wouldn't you give them to a person who's gone through 20 car crashes in 3 hours? We want faster, stronger football players, bigger and harder hits, and get all bummed out when a player doesn't seem to get past injuries. We had no issues with cortizone or morphin-based pain killers being injected into these guys to send them right back into the field after they get injured... so really, why not allow these guys in a controlled manner - as in preventing mis/over use - to give them the physical ability to withstand the punishment their bodies go for 7-8 months a year?

Steroids by themselves do no "enhance" your performance. That's a huge misconception. If you just inject steroids in you, you are going to get fat/puffy, and whatever muscle tissue that's hurt will heal faster that it'd heal by itself. But you are not going to run faster, or hit harder, or throw the ball further. You'd still need to lift the weights, run the sprints, etc... and they are not going to improve your game : they are not going to give you better field vision, or sideline awareness, or make you a better tackler, or read defenses, etc...

I think roids cause cancer, or something. Also roid rage? The benefits of roids is temporary, and short term. The long term affects are devastating. (see lyle Alzado).
According to AMA, eating cold cuts over a long period of time can contribute to cancer.
Driving a car in a congested highway causes rage.
Saying that the "benefits of steroids are temporary" is not the rtght concept.
The long term effect of a lot of things are devastating, including just plain playing football.


I'm not saying that they should be plugged into steroid IVs, I am just saying that the NFL - and all other sports for that matter - should allow players access to certain substances to allow them to heal, including steroids, just like they allow access to say, morphin-based pain killers.

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Old 10-26-2006, 07:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper
Originally Posted by saintfan
Tobias, with all due respect -- because I see what you're saying -- I disagree. Roids, if tolerated, would be abused at a greater level. Roids do precisely what you say. I'm not arguing that, but they allow the taker to work out faster, harder, and for a longer period of time than the non taker. Now, I'm no expert, but I've had personal trainers and one current NFL player tell me that. Do we allow players to get prescriptions for Roids in the interest of recovery? I'm not necessarilly against that other than to say there are a lot of Dr's that'll prescribe anything if the price is right.

I disagree with the statement "if they don't do it their bodies wouldn't be able to take the punishment". I'm willing to bet there are NFL players that don't take roids and play the game for many years. If a guy uses roids for otherwise honest reasons -- like recovery from injury -- he's doing something other players don't have to do.

Lots of drugs have valid uses, but there are tons of examples of misuse causing tragedy.
I see what you are saying, but substance abuse is an issue in our society as a whole. People abuse all sort of substances, being alcohol, uppers, downers, prescription drugs... on the other hand, why deny them treatment or the use of a particular substance that any other person can get to solve a medical condition?
If I thought NFL players were using roids to recover from injury, and it was strictly monitored by something or someone other than the team doctor -- someone not on the payroll so to speak -- I might feel differently. I just don't see it that way.

These guys are taking roids to bulk up. Substance abuse is an issue, which is why the NFL has a policy regarding roids. They have a policy because they recognized a problem, not because players wanted to use roids responsibly.
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