Joe Horn could be done as a Saint
 

AOL Article:

http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/01...ne-as-a-saint/

RE: Joe Horn could be done as a Saint
 

Joe will take a paycut, whether he's with the Saints next year, or another team.

Who didnt see this coming, I mean the amount of money the saints gave Horn at his age was a nice thing, but everyone knows NFL contracts arent worth a damn. He is old from an NFL standpoint and injuries he use to play through are now keeping him off the feild. Maybe he will bounce back, but the Saints can still be a deadly team with or without him.

Joe will have to renegotiate his contract down if he wants to stay.

It's going to be on him. The team will have to cut him because they can't afford to pay Joe a $4 million roster bonus. But as a free agent he can resign with any team, including the Saints for another contract.

As I said, it'll be up to him if he wants to stay.

SFIAH

Before you guys jump on the press bandwagon labeled hyped remember as a team we had the second most drop passes in the NFL this year. just think about that first

I love what Joe brings/brought to the Saints.... but 4 million would be better spent (re)-signing others. After his production this year and then throwing in he is 35yo it will be hard to land with another team for big money.

I do think Payton likes Horn though.

I havent seen that stat but I wonder if that is a percentage or if it is due to the sheer number of passing attempts .... because Brees was passing A LOT this year.

Could you please give me that info?

NFL Leaders: %Pass Completion (Thru Dec. 31, 2006)
1 David Carr Hou 68.3 ( 302/442 )
2 Tony Romo Dal 65.3 ( 220/337 )
3 Peyton Manning Ind 65.0 ( 362/557 )
4 Chad Pennington NYJ 64.5 ( 313/485 )
5 Charlie Frye Cle 64.3 ( 252/392 )
6 Drew Brees NO 64.3 ( 356/554 )

NFL Passes Dropped
1 Green Bay Packers 43
2 New Orleans Saints 39
3 Seattle Seahawks 39
4 Philadelphia Eagles 37
5 Miami Dolphins 36
6 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 32
7 Cleveland Browns 30
8 Indianapolis Colts 28

Granted bress had the second most passes but he also had the second most drops. Now Manning had the most passes but he was ranked 8th in passes dropped. 11 less than new orleans. Bush leads the team with drops at 9. Henderson had 8. colston, horn has 5. That leaves 12 passes unaccounted for. I am betting the TE have a bulk of them but have not found those numbers yet. I know this an "objective" topic. But this site seems to be the most fair in giving the reciever the benifit of the doubt. I could sware henderson had more IMO.

NFL Leaders: Passes Dropped
1 Terrell Owens Dal 17
2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11
2t Andre Johnson Hou 11
2t Troy Williamson Min 11
5 Steve Smith Car 10
6 Reggie Brown Phi 9
7t Reggie Bush NO 8
7t Chris Chambers Mia 8
7t Donald Driver GB 8
7t Braylon Edwards Cle 8
7t Bubba Franks GB 8
7t Joey Galloway TB 8
7t Devery Henderson NO 8
7t Randy McMichael Mia 8

http://shsdemo.stats.com/fb/index.asp

My only point is Drew deserves the best hands at WR. Shawn is a QB turned coach so if any body is going to driven crazy by drops is him. Right now it is to early to cut Horn IMO.
We have alot WR that are 1st and 2nd year players with little to almost no playing time under there belts. Closton is going to be special but he is no where close to being ready for the #1 slot. Henderson is not ready for anything but the #3 either.
Joe will probly be around one more year before we start talking about redoing his contract. If we do it may be a way to minimize the pay increase from year to year by redoing the length of that contract. Maybe incentatives is another possible way.

Remember TO counts as 6.4 million against the cap in dallas so Joe's deal does not look all that bad.
Other than these options I only see us getting a WR through FA and those, as we know, are few and far inbetween as reliable.

Drew Bennett, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Kevin Curtis, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Patrick Crayton, RFA, Dallas Cowboys
Bobby Wade UFA Tennessee Titans
Marc Boerigter, UFA, Green Bay Packers
David Boston, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tyrone Calico, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Andre' Davis, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Bobby Engram, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Justin Gage, UFA, Chicago Bears
D.J. Hackett, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Keenan McCardell, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Shaun McDonald, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Samie Parker, RFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Jerome Pathon, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Willie Ponder, UFA, New York Giants
Edell Shepherd, RFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Travis Taylor, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Scottie Vines, RFA, Detroit Lions
Peter Warrick, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Kelley Washington, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Alvis Whitted, UFA, Oakland Raiders
Ernest Wilford, RFA, Jacksonville Jaguars

I do not see much here to gamble with as our future #1

Free Agent Tight Ends
Eric Johnson, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Kyle Brady, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Daniel Graham, UFA, New England Patriots
Ben Hartsock, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Zach Hilton, UFA, New York Jets
Reggie Kelly, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Jerramy Stevens, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Boo Williams, UFA, New York Giants

Interesting how 4/8 are playoff teams. I think you are right about the fact that this statistic tells as much about how many passes attempted as the hands of the receievers. Some sort of average of passes attempted to caught would be a far better judge.

I'll miss Joe Horn, but clearly they have a pretty good stock of receivers. If they'll just use that great run game enough to open some of them up they'll be even better. If there was one recurring mistake that lasted all through season including the NFC championship was a reluctance to run, even when it was working. The Washington game, then the NFC game were prime examples. It was close, running was working on that 14-16 drive, then three high percentage passes and out, no field goal, no more running. I'll never understand how a coach can lack that bit of insight that even slight fans like myself know.

Something had been nagging at me for the past few games and that is why Joe has not been in uniform. I know this is a buisness but I think we owe it to Joe to pay him what we promised... to honor the contract. He stood up for this team and the community when no one cared... we was a warrior for us and battled for the Le Fluer even when the chips were down.

The only problem I have is that he costs us a roster spot.

Joe's groin was torn not pulled. It takes some time to heal from that. Even if it were a partial tear. I think Payton was holding him out just in case we made the Super Bowl so he would be at the best he could be.

i would love to keep joe but for less money.. his injury problems have plagued him the past few years and it wouldnt be worth it to pay the money and him be out for a few games or worse..
also i would love to see TE Eric Johnson from the San Francisco 49ers signed... he led their team in receptions up until last season when they drafted V. Davis 9th overall... johnson has great hands and would be a viable target for brees over the middle making our offense even more diverse then it already is

Not too sure how I feel about this. Over the years I watched as we traded our "Good" players away and got nothing in return for them. Yes, Joe a major vertibrae in the backbone of the Saints and lossing him would hurt, but if he is unwilling to make the sacrifice and redo his contract for the betterment of the team that he "Loves so much", I say let him go. I feel they could get his money to him "somehow".

Who knows, this could all be eye wash and B.S., I hope so.

hey,,,,,,,,,(trying not to crack a smile) boo williams could be a steal......

I know that the Saints owe him 4 mil. next season if they keep him and I also know Joe is almost 34 years old & has lost a step but it still won't be easy to see him go if it comes down to that..
Let's say Joe retires, should he be part of the coaching staff? (WR coach?)
He knows the team inside & out and has a great relationship with the team, it could work our IMO, but then again I'm a huge fan of Horn.

He is 34^^^

actually, turns 35 this month. Not exactly the prime age for an NFL WR. I sure hope Joe doesnt think he will get 4 million from some other team. I think if they convert some of his salary to upfront money, thus lessening his cap hit, he should take it. I love Joe to death, but there is no way he gets more than 2 million anywhere.

I agree on the finding a new TE. Ernie Conwell, has been nothing but injurie prone, since we signed him. The guy has great hands, and he blocks above average, but he's had season ending injuries twice, since he came on. I don't know how much we are paying him, but I think it's time to let him go. Maybe he is gone, and I just didn't hear about it.

i love joe horn but the guy hasn't played a full season in what 2-3 years. he's old and not really anything that can't be replaced. he is taking a pay cut whether it is with us or on the market. might as well stay here and take the cut. if not oh well. hte to see him go but at the same time i would rather free up the money then see it sit on the sidlines

Placing emotions and loyalty aside, Joe hasn't provided the RECENT production to warrant the $$$$$$$$$ he will earn in 2007. If he is unwilling to redo his contract, I see him elsewhere in 2007. IMHO, damn shame, but as I said....place emotions aside!

I'm sorry, but the only thing I ever heard coming out of Horn's mouth last year was about how good the fan's in Texas had been, and how the NFL was a business and that Mr. Benson has to do what's right for his team.

Im not a Horn fan, havent been a fan since that crap with ROAF went down, he has been a bright spot in games for the saints, but he has been a dagger in the locker room at times also since he has been here. He is no T.O. but he is no SAINT either.

*No jokes on the saint comment please : ) *

I really believe in my heart the two most important spots on a football team are the QB, then RB, after that its on the OL and DL to make things happen. The Saints finally have a QB that is about winning, Payton, Loomis, and the SAINTS knew what Bree's was about when they signed him to that huge contract, but guess what....that was money damn well spent.

Anyone notice that Brees much like Brady gets the ball to whoever is open. Branch leaves the Pats and New England still makes the AFC championship, HORN is out a good part of the season and yet Henderson, Cooper, Colston, Karney, Bush, and a few plays from our TE's get the yards and the catches when we need them.

If Joe had been on the field all year he would have some leverage..... saying he was pulling the coverage so the "no names" could catch the balls... but that isn't what happened.

He proved the system can function without him. Too bad imo. Joe is a warrior. But if you are expensive dead weight they need to cut it loose.

4 million cap hit is too much for Joe.

As a Horn fan I find it distasteful to say it but if he won't resign for less, cut him.

On the joe horn show on radio he said he would be willing to backload some of his money in the future years but not less money.

Saints without Joe Horn just dosent seem right.... Remeber when the Rams cut Issac Bruce the resigned him made a new contract thats what New Orleans should do with Horn.... I just cant see horn in another uniform besides the Black&Gold he is one of my favorite saints and I would hate to see him leave....

I have met Joe Horn, and I can tell you, that he was one of the nicest "people" I've met in my life. I like him, because he came from nowhere, (a pizza hut if I'm correct), and made it into the NFL, and EARNED the respect that he has. I certainly hope, that they can come to some sort of arrangement to keep him. 34-35 is not old. Jerry Rice played effectively, until he was 39. Tim Brown did as well. I am NOT saying that Joe is comparable to Jerry Rice, but if healthy, he's going to get you first downs. In this league, those are not easy to come by.

I remember from a game early this year (might have been the Falcons game in the Dome) Joe leaving his feet and bringing down a pass. He got his legs cut and came down flat on his back. You could see it hurt...bad...

Then you see a few players coming over to him to help. I mean, you could tell the man was in pain, but he brushed off the help and got up and went back to the huddle. Now to me that's heart. Donte' would have missed 3 weeks ya know?

I'm not gonna dis Joe. I hope the team can figure something out and keep him. I wonder if the Chicago game would have been any different had Joe been playing. Maybe not, but maybe...

Few players get through a whole season without sustaining some sort of injury. One can't penalize Joe for the fact that the NFL is all about extreme contact. That being said, he's at the downside of his speed at 34, and all of his injuries have been dragging his speed potential down - ankles, knee, groin - over the past three years. He's at best now a #2 receiver, possession type, which is still very important considering all the drops. #2 receivers don't merit #6 million a year. Joe should remain and retire a Saint, but he needs to restructure his contract to ensure it. It would be a shame on both parties if it came to having to cut him in order to achieve that result.