Joe Horn could be done as a Saint

ShadySaint · 01-24-2007, 10:02 PM

AOL Article:

http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/01...ne-as-a-saint/

BlackandBlue · 01-24-2007, 10:13 PM

Joe will take a paycut, whether he's with the Saints next year, or another team.

SoulStar · 01-24-2007, 11:53 PM

Who didnt see this coming, I mean the amount of money the saints gave Horn at his age was a nice thing, but everyone knows NFL contracts arent worth a damn. He is old from an NFL standpoint and injuries he use to play through are now keeping him off the feild. Maybe he will bounce back, but the Saints can still be a deadly team with or without him.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 01-25-2007, 05:58 AM

Joe will have to renegotiate his contract down if he wants to stay.

It's going to be on him. The team will have to cut him because they can't afford to pay Joe a $4 million roster bonus. But as a free agent he can resign with any team, including the Saints for another contract.

As I said, it'll be up to him if he wants to stay.

SFIAH

hagan714 · 01-25-2007, 06:27 AM

Before you guys jump on the press bandwagon labeled hyped remember as a team we had the second most drop passes in the NFL this year. just think about that first

Bise · 01-25-2007, 07:22 AM

I love what Joe brings/brought to the Saints.... but 4 million would be better spent (re)-signing others. After his production this year and then throwing in he is 35yo it will be hard to land with another team for big money.

I do think Payton likes Horn though.

Bise · 01-25-2007, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

Before you guys jump on the press bandwagon labeled hyped remember as a team we had the second most drop passes in the NFL this year. just think about that first

I havent seen that stat but I wonder if that is a percentage or if it is due to the sheer number of passing attempts .... because Brees was passing A LOT this year.

Could you please give me that info?

hagan714 · 01-25-2007, 08:34 AM

NFL Leaders: %Pass Completion (Thru Dec. 31, 2006)
1 David Carr Hou 68.3 ( 302/442 )
2 Tony Romo Dal 65.3 ( 220/337 )
3 Peyton Manning Ind 65.0 ( 362/557 )
4 Chad Pennington NYJ 64.5 ( 313/485 )
5 Charlie Frye Cle 64.3 ( 252/392 )
6 Drew Brees NO 64.3 ( 356/554 )

NFL Passes Dropped
1 Green Bay Packers 43
2 New Orleans Saints 39
3 Seattle Seahawks 39
4 Philadelphia Eagles 37
5 Miami Dolphins 36
6 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 32
7 Cleveland Browns 30
8 Indianapolis Colts 28

Granted bress had the second most passes but he also had the second most drops. Now Manning had the most passes but he was ranked 8th in passes dropped. 11 less than new orleans. Bush leads the team with drops at 9. Henderson had 8. colston, horn has 5. That leaves 12 passes unaccounted for. I am betting the TE have a bulk of them but have not found those numbers yet. I know this an "objective" topic. But this site seems to be the most fair in giving the reciever the benifit of the doubt. I could sware henderson had more IMO.

NFL Leaders: Passes Dropped
1 Terrell Owens Dal 17
2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11
2t Andre Johnson Hou 11
2t Troy Williamson Min 11
5 Steve Smith Car 10
6 Reggie Brown Phi 9
7t Reggie Bush NO 8
7t Chris Chambers Mia 8
7t Donald Driver GB 8
7t Braylon Edwards Cle 8
7t Bubba Franks GB 8
7t Joey Galloway TB 8
7t Devery Henderson NO 8
7t Randy McMichael Mia 8

http://shsdemo.stats.com/fb/index.asp

My only point is Drew deserves the best hands at WR. Shawn is a QB turned coach so if any body is going to driven crazy by drops is him. Right now it is to early to cut Horn IMO.
We have alot WR that are 1st and 2nd year players with little to almost no playing time under there belts. Closton is going to be special but he is no where close to being ready for the #1 slot. Henderson is not ready for anything but the #3 either.
Joe will probly be around one more year before we start talking about redoing his contract. If we do it may be a way to minimize the pay increase from year to year by redoing the length of that contract. Maybe incentatives is another possible way.

Remember TO counts as 6.4 million against the cap in dallas so Joe's deal does not look all that bad.
Other than these options I only see us getting a WR through FA and those, as we know, are few and far inbetween as reliable.

Drew Bennett, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Kevin Curtis, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Patrick Crayton, RFA, Dallas Cowboys
Bobby Wade UFA Tennessee Titans
Marc Boerigter, UFA, Green Bay Packers
David Boston, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tyrone Calico, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Andre' Davis, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Bobby Engram, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Justin Gage, UFA, Chicago Bears
D.J. Hackett, RFA, Seattle Seahawks
Keenan McCardell, UFA, San Diego Chargers
Shaun McDonald, UFA, St. Louis Rams
Samie Parker, RFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Jerome Pathon, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Willie Ponder, UFA, New York Giants
Edell Shepherd, RFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Travis Taylor, UFA, Minnesota Vikings
Scottie Vines, RFA, Detroit Lions
Peter Warrick, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Kelley Washington, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Alvis Whitted, UFA, Oakland Raiders
Ernest Wilford, RFA, Jacksonville Jaguars

I do not see much here to gamble with as our future #1

Free Agent Tight Ends
Eric Johnson, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Kyle Brady, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars
Daniel Graham, UFA, New England Patriots
Ben Hartsock, RFA, Indianapolis Colts
Zach Hilton, UFA, New York Jets
Reggie Kelly, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Jerramy Stevens, UFA, Seattle Seahawks
Boo Williams, UFA, New York Giants

mike27 · 01-25-2007, 09:20 AM

Interesting how 4/8 are playoff teams. I think you are right about the fact that this statistic tells as much about how many passes attempted as the hands of the receievers. Some sort of average of passes attempted to caught would be a far better judge.

I'll miss Joe Horn, but clearly they have a pretty good stock of receivers. If they'll just use that great run game enough to open some of them up they'll be even better. If there was one recurring mistake that lasted all through season including the NFC championship was a reluctance to run, even when it was working. The Washington game, then the NFC game were prime examples. It was close, running was working on that 14-16 drive, then three high percentage passes and out, no field goal, no more running. I'll never understand how a coach can lack that bit of insight that even slight fans like myself know.

Euphoria · 01-25-2007, 10:16 AM

Something had been nagging at me for the past few games and that is why Joe has not been in uniform. I know this is a buisness but I think we owe it to Joe to pay him what we promised... to honor the contract. He stood up for this team and the community when no one cared... we was a warrior for us and battled for the Le Fluer even when the chips were down.

The only problem I have is that he costs us a roster spot.

01-24-2007, 10:02 PM	#1
ShadySaint Rookie Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Joe Horn could be done as a Saint AOL Article: http://www.aolsportsblog.com/2007/01...ne-as-a-saint/
ShadySaint Rookie Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5

01-24-2007, 10:13 PM	#2
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	RE: Joe Horn could be done as a Saint Joe will take a paycut, whether he's with the Saints next year, or another team.

01-25-2007, 07:22 AM	#6
Bise 100th Post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 154	I love what Joe brings/brought to the Saints.... but 4 million would be better spent (re)-signing others. After his production this year and then throwing in he is 35yo it will be hard to land with another team for big money. I do think Payton likes Horn though.
Bise 100th Post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 154

01-25-2007, 07:24 AM	#7
Bise 100th Post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 154	Originally Posted by hagan714 Before you guys jump on the press bandwagon labeled hyped remember as a team we had the second most drop passes in the NFL this year. just think about that first I havent seen that stat but I wonder if that is a percentage or if it is due to the sheer number of passing attempts .... because Brees was passing A LOT this year. Could you please give me that info?
Bise 100th Post Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 154

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01-24-2007, 11:53 PM	#3
SoulStar 100th Post Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arlington Tx Posts: 157	Who didnt see this coming, I mean the amount of money the saints gave Horn at his age was a nice thing, but everyone knows NFL contracts arent worth a damn. He is old from an NFL standpoint and injuries he use to play through are now keeping him off the feild. Maybe he will bounce back, but the Saints can still be a deadly team with or without him.

01-25-2007, 05:58 AM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Joe will have to renegotiate his contract down if he wants to stay. It's going to be on him. The team will have to cut him because they can't afford to pay Joe a $4 million roster bonus. But as a free agent he can resign with any team, including the Saints for another contract. As I said, it'll be up to him if he wants to stay. SFIAH

01-25-2007, 06:27 AM	#5
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Before you guys jump on the press bandwagon labeled hyped remember as a team we had the second most drop passes in the NFL this year. just think about that first

01-25-2007, 08:34 AM	#8
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	NFL Leaders: %Pass Completion (Thru Dec. 31, 2006) 1 David Carr Hou 68.3 ( 302/442 ) 2 Tony Romo Dal 65.3 ( 220/337 ) 3 Peyton Manning Ind 65.0 ( 362/557 ) 4 Chad Pennington NYJ 64.5 ( 313/485 ) 5 Charlie Frye Cle 64.3 ( 252/392 ) 6 Drew Brees NO 64.3 ( 356/554 ) NFL Passes Dropped 1 Green Bay Packers 43 2 New Orleans Saints 39 3 Seattle Seahawks 39 4 Philadelphia Eagles 37 5 Miami Dolphins 36 6 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 32 7 Cleveland Browns 30 8 Indianapolis Colts 28 Granted bress had the second most passes but he also had the second most drops. Now Manning had the most passes but he was ranked 8th in passes dropped. 11 less than new orleans. Bush leads the team with drops at 9. Henderson had 8. colston, horn has 5. That leaves 12 passes unaccounted for. I am betting the TE have a bulk of them but have not found those numbers yet. I know this an "objective" topic. But this site seems to be the most fair in giving the reciever the benifit of the doubt. I could sware henderson had more IMO. NFL Leaders: Passes Dropped 1 Terrell Owens Dal 17 2t Darrell Jackson Sea 11 2t Andre Johnson Hou 11 2t Troy Williamson Min 11 5 Steve Smith Car 10 6 Reggie Brown Phi 9 7t Reggie Bush NO 8 7t Chris Chambers Mia 8 7t Donald Driver GB 8 7t Braylon Edwards Cle 8 7t Bubba Franks GB 8 7t Joey Galloway TB 8 7t Devery Henderson NO 8 7t Randy McMichael Mia 8 http://shsdemo.stats.com/fb/index.asp My only point is Drew deserves the best hands at WR. Shawn is a QB turned coach so if any body is going to driven crazy by drops is him. Right now it is to early to cut Horn IMO. We have alot WR that are 1st and 2nd year players with little to almost no playing time under there belts. Closton is going to be special but he is no where close to being ready for the #1 slot. Henderson is not ready for anything but the #3 either. Joe will probly be around one more year before we start talking about redoing his contract. If we do it may be a way to minimize the pay increase from year to year by redoing the length of that contract. Maybe incentatives is another possible way. Remember TO counts as 6.4 million against the cap in dallas so Joe's deal does not look all that bad. Other than these options I only see us getting a WR through FA and those, as we know, are few and far inbetween as reliable. Drew Bennett, UFA, Tennessee Titans Kevin Curtis, UFA, St. Louis Rams Patrick Crayton, RFA, Dallas Cowboys Bobby Wade UFA Tennessee Titans Marc Boerigter, UFA, Green Bay Packers David Boston, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers Tyrone Calico, UFA, Tennessee Titans Andre' Davis, UFA, Buffalo Bills Bobby Engram, UFA, Seattle Seahawks Justin Gage, UFA, Chicago Bears D.J. Hackett, RFA, Seattle Seahawks Keenan McCardell, UFA, San Diego Chargers Shaun McDonald, UFA, St. Louis Rams Samie Parker, RFA, Kansas City Chiefs Jerome Pathon, UFA, Atlanta Falcons Willie Ponder, UFA, New York Giants Edell Shepherd, RFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers Travis Taylor, UFA, Minnesota Vikings Scottie Vines, RFA, Detroit Lions Peter Warrick, UFA, Seattle Seahawks Kelley Washington, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals Alvis Whitted, UFA, Oakland Raiders Ernest Wilford, RFA, Jacksonville Jaguars I do not see much here to gamble with as our future #1 Free Agent Tight Ends Eric Johnson, UFA, San Francisco 49ers Kyle Brady, UFA, Jacksonville Jaguars Daniel Graham, UFA, New England Patriots Ben Hartsock, RFA, Indianapolis Colts Zach Hilton, UFA, New York Jets Reggie Kelly, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals Jerramy Stevens, UFA, Seattle Seahawks Boo Williams, UFA, New York Giants

01-25-2007, 09:20 AM	#9
mike27 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 104 Blog Entries: 2	Interesting how 4/8 are playoff teams. I think you are right about the fact that this statistic tells as much about how many passes attempted as the hands of the receievers. Some sort of average of passes attempted to caught would be a far better judge. I'll miss Joe Horn, but clearly they have a pretty good stock of receivers. If they'll just use that great run game enough to open some of them up they'll be even better. If there was one recurring mistake that lasted all through season including the NFC championship was a reluctance to run, even when it was working. The Washington game, then the NFC game were prime examples. It was close, running was working on that 14-16 drive, then three high percentage passes and out, no field goal, no more running. I'll never understand how a coach can lack that bit of insight that even slight fans like myself know.

01-25-2007, 10:16 AM	#10
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Something had been nagging at me for the past few games and that is why Joe has not been in uniform. I know this is a buisness but I think we owe it to Joe to pay him what we promised... to honor the contract. He stood up for this team and the community when no one cared... we was a warrior for us and battled for the Le Fluer even when the chips were down. The only problem I have is that he costs us a roster spot.