Grant angry for getting Saints' 'franchise' label

lawless313 · 02-25-2007, 01:54 AM

In my opinion, Charles Grant is greedy and self-centered to be complaining about making 9 million over the next year.

First off, the guy hasn't made the pro bowl in his 5 year stint with the Saints nor has he ever led the league in sacks. He's not one of the top 5 defensive ends in the NFL. In fact, he's probably not even in the top 10. Hell, for that matter, he's not even the top defensive end on the Saints.

Jason Taylor, Julius Peppers, Aaron Schoebel, Richard Seymour, Will Smith, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Derrick Burgess, Jevon Kearse, Simeon Rice, and Osi Umenyiora are all players who've posted better numbers than Grant over the last few years and only two of those players will be making more money than him in 2007. That's insane.

As for the whole, "what if Grant gets hurt" question, well, geez...what if he gets hit by a bus? What if he gets suspended by the league for violating the substance abuse policy? Or, how about a more realistic scenario, what if Grant's production drops down again? Is he going to give any of that 9 million back? Of course not! It never ceases to amaze me how a player will complain about not making what he feels he's worth, but says nothing about returning some of the team's investment in him when his production starts slipping.

To me, it sounds like Grant is doing nothing more than trying to cash in on his first good year since 2004. Can't say I blame him, except that he wants a lucrative mulit-year deal for what worked out to be only a fairly decent season for him. So, you'd think he could at least be understanding of the Saints protecting their investment in their former first round draft pick, and not wanting him to walk out of New Orleans without some form of compensation. Instead, he openly whines about a salary that he hasn't deserved. You'd think he could dry those eyes on some of those rather large paychecks he'll be cashing.

Simply put, Grant's a good player who hasn't yet reached the status of being great. I hope he does and, when and if that time comes, I hope the Saints pay him every penny he deserves for as many years as he'd like. Until then, he ought to just shut up because he just hit the lottery.

Memnoch_TP · 02-25-2007, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by lawless313

In my opinion, Charles Grant is greedy and self-centered to be complaining about making 9 million over the next year.

First off, the guy hasn't made the pro bowl in his 5 year stint with the Saints nor has he ever led the league in sacks. He's not one of the top 5 defensive ends in the NFL. In fact, he's probably not even in the top 10. Hell, for that matter, he's not even the top defensive end on the Saints.

Jason Taylor, Julius Peppers, Aaron Schoebel, Richard Seymour, Will Smith, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Derrick Burgess, Jevon Kearse, Simeon Rice, and Osi Umenyiora are all players who've posted better numbers than Grant over the last few years and only two of those players will be making more money than him in 2007. That's insane.

As for the whole, "what if Grant gets hurt" question, well, geez...what if he gets hit by a bus? What if he gets suspended by the league for violating the substance abuse policy? Or, how about a more realistic scenario, what if Grant's production drops down again? Is he going to give any of that 9 million back? Of course not! It never ceases to amaze me how a player will complain about not making what he feels he's worth, but says nothing about returning some of the team's investment in him when his production starts slipping.

To me, it sounds like Grant is doing nothing more than trying to cash in on his first good year since 2004. Can't say I blame him, except that he wants a lucrative mulit-year deal for what worked out to be only a fairly decent season for him. So, you'd think he could at least be understanding of the Saints protecting their investment in their former first round draft pick, and not wanting him to walk out of New Orleans without some form of compensation. Instead, he openly whines about a salary that he hasn't deserved. You'd think he could dry those eyes on some of those rather large paychecks he'll be cashing.

Simply put, Grant's a good player who hasn't yet reached the status of being great. I hope he does and, when and if that time comes, I hope the Saints pay him every penny he deserves for as many years as he'd like. Until then, he ought to just shut up because he just hit the lottery.

Well, if the Pro Bowl wasnt a big popularity contest you would have a point there. And if statistics really meant anything, you would have a point there. Statistically, our defense was not good last year. But they were actually great last year because they made the key stops. They stopped 3rd downs, they allowed FGs and not TDs, they kept the offense in EVERY game. Stats are not everything.

Grant is simply trying to secure his future. He doesnt want "Good Enough", he wants the best he can get. How can you fault a man for that? Besides, everyone is setting a HUGE double standard in this issue.

Anyone ever have a job that you quit because you were being lied to or felt underpaid or unappreciated? Did you for one INSTANT think to yourself that you are making a fortune compared to a Chinese Sweatshop worker? Did you consider how much Rice you could buy in Beijing with the $6.00 an hour McGadgets was paying you? Did you realize what a selfish and greedy person you were for considering going to Gizmo King for $6.50 an hour?

Yeah... Thats what I thought. 8 million is a LARGE amount of money to you and me. Not so much in the company Grant keeps though. So cut the guy some slack. Besides, I dont think anyone who thinks using an NFL paycheck to absorb moisture should be giving out financial advice.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-25-2007, 08:56 AM

Loomis made a mistake if he told Grant he wouldn't apply the franchise tag. There's no reason to lie to the guy if that's what happened. It makes the organization look bad and causes Grant to be a potentially distracting and divisive presence on the club (note I said potentially).

Simply man up and say "Charles, I can't pay you top 5 DE money long term. Also I can't let you go without getting something back to improve this team. The franchise tag is an opportunity to give us some time to work something out and an opportunity for you to prove that you're worth the long term investment. You're free to negotiate with other teams and if you can find a deal we can both live with, then we can explore that route too.

I'm not trying to screw you. But I need you to understand that as of this moment you're not even the best DE on this team. So I can't pay you Peppers money. I know there are other teams out there that are so desperate for DE help that they'll overpay for your services. But my job as GM is to look out for this whole organization, not just a single player.

You have a great opportunity here to help us to make it to the promised land. We can work together to make it a win/win situation with you here or possibly with you somewhere else. But I can't afford to let you go for nothing. I'm sure you can understand that.

In the meantime, sign the $9 million tender, which is top 5 DE money for a year and let's see if we can figure this thing out."

In other words, man up and tell the truth to the guy. He'll respect you for it and won't be so pissed.

It's hard to work with someone you can't trust. And if Charles is telling the truth about the franchise tag, then it's going to be a hard road for both sides.

SFIAH

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-25-2007, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by SoulStar

9 million for one year, this isnt long term security?

Not in NFL terms. Grant could probably get $9 million as a signing bonus with some team or another.

I know we look at the dollars as staggering in absolute terms. The bottom line is that 32 NFL teams have to spend over $3 billion to just about 1700 people. That's the NFL player pie.

And just like you and me, if there's an good opportunity to get more of the pie, we want to explore it. Especially when there are clubs that are willing to both make a committment long term and to pay more money.

The Saints no longer need to play games to try to keep players around. Presuming that Payton and his staff are even close to their first year production, New Orleans is going to be a place where players are going to want to come. Like I said in my previous post, Loomis needs to just man up with Grant and explain that they need to find a win/win situation.

In the meantime, $9 is top 5 DE money for a year. The only thing that's missing is long term security in NFL terms. Generally contracts are structured to that it's difficult not to pay about half of the contract.

Grant wants his big payday. It's unclear if the Saints are going to give it to him. They however cannot afford to let him walk away for nothing.

I'm only bothered by the fact that Grant said that Loomis lied about the tag. I think that's unnecessary (Loomis lying if that's the case).

SFIAH

hagan714 · 02-25-2007, 09:22 AM

Of all the FA we have he is the most logical one to get tagged. We know it and he sure a heck knew it. I wont judge the greed issue because I do not know the contract offer but I will say he is going to get over payed this year. I am still not sold on the idea he is a top 5 DE in the NFL. I am still having trouble with top 10.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-25-2007, 09:28 AM

It's not greed. Here's Loomis' take on the original contract offer:

Loomis admitted that offer was low, in retrospect. Grant finished the season strong, and the market for defensive ends has increased throughout the league this offseason, with all teams getting a $7 million boost under the new $109 million salary cap.

From

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index...amp;thispage=2

Just never say you won't do something that later on you may need to do. You send up looking like Nick Saban!

SFIAH

BiggPoppaFro4 · 02-25-2007, 05:21 PM

Yeah I can understand the anger at loomis saying he wouldn't, then doing so...not cool, but would grat have batted an eyelash at signing with a different team even after saying how much he loved NO and the people? I know, not the exact same thing, but same ballpark.

I just hope we can get a deal done b/c I really like Grant. Good guy, strong player and takes one thing off our needs list, which is still pretty long from my POV. (come on March 2nd!!) At the end of the day though, he's a good player benefitting from a weak FA season. Hasn't proven he is a gamebreaker on his own but does work well in a solid group, or with a tandem partner like Smith. Personally, I want him to stay because he's a good dude, solid as a person and fiery, strong player, but a small part of me also hopes some team is willing to part with two #1s for him. mainly b/c of how well we did in the draft last year (pick Willis, baby!!!)

Great writings on this topic though...good to be back amongst the Saints fans!

Tobias-Reiper · 02-25-2007, 07:30 PM

I like Grant, but he's not THAT good. Like someone else already mentioned, he's not even the best DE on his team.

I'm going to subscribe to the Bill Belichick school of "No One Is Indispensable" and "Anyone Can Be Replaced".

02-25-2007, 01:54 AM	#11
lawless313 Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1	In my opinion, Charles Grant is greedy and self-centered to be complaining about making 9 million over the next year. First off, the guy hasn't made the pro bowl in his 5 year stint with the Saints nor has he ever led the league in sacks. He's not one of the top 5 defensive ends in the NFL. In fact, he's probably not even in the top 10. Hell, for that matter, he's not even the top defensive end on the Saints. Jason Taylor, Julius Peppers, Aaron Schoebel, Richard Seymour, Will Smith, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Derrick Burgess, Jevon Kearse, Simeon Rice, and Osi Umenyiora are all players who've posted better numbers than Grant over the last few years and only two of those players will be making more money than him in 2007. That's insane. As for the whole, "what if Grant gets hurt" question, well, geez...what if he gets hit by a bus? What if he gets suspended by the league for violating the substance abuse policy? Or, how about a more realistic scenario, what if Grant's production drops down again? Is he going to give any of that 9 million back? Of course not! It never ceases to amaze me how a player will complain about not making what he feels he's worth, but says nothing about returning some of the team's investment in him when his production starts slipping. To me, it sounds like Grant is doing nothing more than trying to cash in on his first good year since 2004. Can't say I blame him, except that he wants a lucrative mulit-year deal for what worked out to be only a fairly decent season for him. So, you'd think he could at least be understanding of the Saints protecting their investment in their former first round draft pick, and not wanting him to walk out of New Orleans without some form of compensation. Instead, he openly whines about a salary that he hasn't deserved. You'd think he could dry those eyes on some of those rather large paychecks he'll be cashing. Simply put, Grant's a good player who hasn't yet reached the status of being great. I hope he does and, when and if that time comes, I hope the Saints pay him every penny he deserves for as many years as he'd like. Until then, he ought to just shut up because he just hit the lottery.
lawless313 Rookie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1

02-25-2007, 07:03 AM	#12
Memnoch_TP Logic Troll Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 565	Originally Posted by lawless313 In my opinion, Charles Grant is greedy and self-centered to be complaining about making 9 million over the next year. First off, the guy hasn't made the pro bowl in his 5 year stint with the Saints nor has he ever led the league in sacks. He's not one of the top 5 defensive ends in the NFL. In fact, he's probably not even in the top 10. Hell, for that matter, he's not even the top defensive end on the Saints. Jason Taylor, Julius Peppers, Aaron Schoebel, Richard Seymour, Will Smith, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Derrick Burgess, Jevon Kearse, Simeon Rice, and Osi Umenyiora are all players who've posted better numbers than Grant over the last few years and only two of those players will be making more money than him in 2007. That's insane. As for the whole, "what if Grant gets hurt" question, well, geez...what if he gets hit by a bus? What if he gets suspended by the league for violating the substance abuse policy? Or, how about a more realistic scenario, what if Grant's production drops down again? Is he going to give any of that 9 million back? Of course not! It never ceases to amaze me how a player will complain about not making what he feels he's worth, but says nothing about returning some of the team's investment in him when his production starts slipping. To me, it sounds like Grant is doing nothing more than trying to cash in on his first good year since 2004. Can't say I blame him, except that he wants a lucrative mulit-year deal for what worked out to be only a fairly decent season for him. So, you'd think he could at least be understanding of the Saints protecting their investment in their former first round draft pick, and not wanting him to walk out of New Orleans without some form of compensation. Instead, he openly whines about a salary that he hasn't deserved. You'd think he could dry those eyes on some of those rather large paychecks he'll be cashing. Simply put, Grant's a good player who hasn't yet reached the status of being great. I hope he does and, when and if that time comes, I hope the Saints pay him every penny he deserves for as many years as he'd like. Until then, he ought to just shut up because he just hit the lottery. Well, if the Pro Bowl wasnt a big popularity contest you would have a point there. And if statistics really meant anything, you would have a point there. Statistically, our defense was not good last year. But they were actually great last year because they made the key stops. They stopped 3rd downs, they allowed FGs and not TDs, they kept the offense in EVERY game. Stats are not everything. Grant is simply trying to secure his future. He doesnt want "Good Enough", he wants the best he can get. How can you fault a man for that? Besides, everyone is setting a HUGE double standard in this issue. Anyone ever have a job that you quit because you were being lied to or felt underpaid or unappreciated? Did you for one INSTANT think to yourself that you are making a fortune compared to a Chinese Sweatshop worker? Did you consider how much Rice you could buy in Beijing with the $6.00 an hour McGadgets was paying you? Did you realize what a selfish and greedy person you were for considering going to Gizmo King for $6.50 an hour? Yeah... Thats what I thought. 8 million is a LARGE amount of money to you and me. Not so much in the company Grant keeps though. So cut the guy some slack. Besides, I dont think anyone who thinks using an NFL paycheck to absorb moisture should be giving out financial advice.
	"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -- Douglas Adams.

02-25-2007, 08:56 AM	#13
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Loomis made a mistake if he told Grant he wouldn't apply the franchise tag. There's no reason to lie to the guy if that's what happened. It makes the organization look bad and causes Grant to be a potentially distracting and divisive presence on the club (note I said potentially). Simply man up and say "Charles, I can't pay you top 5 DE money long term. Also I can't let you go without getting something back to improve this team. The franchise tag is an opportunity to give us some time to work something out and an opportunity for you to prove that you're worth the long term investment. You're free to negotiate with other teams and if you can find a deal we can both live with, then we can explore that route too. I'm not trying to screw you. But I need you to understand that as of this moment you're not even the best DE on this team. So I can't pay you Peppers money. I know there are other teams out there that are so desperate for DE help that they'll overpay for your services. But my job as GM is to look out for this whole organization, not just a single player. You have a great opportunity here to help us to make it to the promised land. We can work together to make it a win/win situation with you here or possibly with you somewhere else. But I can't afford to let you go for nothing. I'm sure you can understand that. In the meantime, sign the $9 million tender, which is top 5 DE money for a year and let's see if we can figure this thing out." In other words, man up and tell the truth to the guy. He'll respect you for it and won't be so pissed. It's hard to work with someone you can't trust. And if Charles is telling the truth about the franchise tag, then it's going to be a hard road for both sides. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-25-2007, 09:20 AM	#14
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	Originally Posted by SoulStar 9 million for one year, this isnt long term security? Not in NFL terms. Grant could probably get $9 million as a signing bonus with some team or another. I know we look at the dollars as staggering in absolute terms. The bottom line is that 32 NFL teams have to spend over $3 billion to just about 1700 people. That's the NFL player pie. And just like you and me, if there's an good opportunity to get more of the pie, we want to explore it. Especially when there are clubs that are willing to both make a committment long term and to pay more money. The Saints no longer need to play games to try to keep players around. Presuming that Payton and his staff are even close to their first year production, New Orleans is going to be a place where players are going to want to come. Like I said in my previous post, Loomis needs to just man up with Grant and explain that they need to find a win/win situation. In the meantime, $9 is top 5 DE money for a year. The only thing that's missing is long term security in NFL terms. Generally contracts are structured to that it's difficult not to pay about half of the contract. Grant wants his big payday. It's unclear if the Saints are going to give it to him. They however cannot afford to let him walk away for nothing. I'm only bothered by the fact that Grant said that Loomis lied about the tag. I think that's unnecessary (Loomis lying if that's the case). SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

02-25-2007, 09:28 AM	#16
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,647	It's not greed. Here's Loomis' take on the original contract offer: Loomis admitted that offer was low, in retrospect. Grant finished the season strong, and the market for defensive ends has increased throughout the league this offseason, with all teams getting a $7 million boost under the new $109 million salary cap. From http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index...amp;thispage=2 Just never say you won't do something that later on you may need to do. You send up looking like Nick Saban! SFIAH

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02-25-2007, 09:22 AM	#15
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Of all the FA we have he is the most logical one to get tagged. We know it and he sure a heck knew it. I wont judge the greed issue because I do not know the contract offer but I will say he is going to get over payed this year. I am still not sold on the idea he is a top 5 DE in the NFL. I am still having trouble with top 10.

02-25-2007, 05:21 PM	#17
BiggPoppaFro4 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 231	Yeah I can understand the anger at loomis saying he wouldn't, then doing so...not cool, but would grat have batted an eyelash at signing with a different team even after saying how much he loved NO and the people? I know, not the exact same thing, but same ballpark. I just hope we can get a deal done b/c I really like Grant. Good guy, strong player and takes one thing off our needs list, which is still pretty long from my POV. (come on March 2nd!!) At the end of the day though, he's a good player benefitting from a weak FA season. Hasn't proven he is a gamebreaker on his own but does work well in a solid group, or with a tandem partner like Smith. Personally, I want him to stay because he's a good dude, solid as a person and fiery, strong player, but a small part of me also hopes some team is willing to part with two #1s for him. mainly b/c of how well we did in the draft last year (pick Willis, baby!!!) Great writings on this topic though...good to be back amongst the Saints fans!
BiggPoppaFro4 100th Post Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 231

02-25-2007, 07:30 PM	#18
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	I like Grant, but he's not THAT good. Like someone else already mentioned, he's not even the best DE on his team. I'm going to subscribe to the Bill Belichick school of "No One Is Indispensable" and "Anyone Can Be Replaced".