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hagan, scenarios, please.........

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; lets say we wrap up the deal with jason david......maybe the coaching staff really likes something about him, such as team player etc....... and lets say that boogey is right and the saints will not go after bowe if available ...

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Old 04-19-2007, 06:52 PM   #1
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hagan, scenarios, please.........

lets say we wrap up the deal with jason david......maybe the coaching staff really likes something about him, such as team player etc.......
and lets say that boogey is right and the saints will not go after bowe if available at our pick..
and, of course all the top corners are gone when we pick.........
depending if no one goes after any of the top recievers after the first 2 or 3, refer to your reciever list, it will be kinda one sided as to bpa available at our pick with reciever being the likely pick because of quality/quanity......
tight end may fall too........
but, what about a qb? i brought this up when carr was rumored to be leaving long ago....now we did not get him but of all people, carolina.......
and, who we may draft certainly would not be able to take the reigns if brees were to go down, but, the future need not be overlooked........
question one?
which qb would be worthy of the 27th pick?
question two?
which wide reciever?
question three?
who really thinks the saints won't go offense if that's what available?
and question four?
does anyone really think the defense will dominate our picks.......?????/
if so, lets look back at last yr........
we came within one game to go to the superbowl.......one game........
i think the offense blew it more than the defense.........
chicago did the same to the colts and manning picked em apart.....
and, in bad weather...........
we coulda, shoulda, woulda but we didn't...........
i don't blame anyone because it was a hellava ride.................
man, did it feel good............and, still does..........
i see payton filling holes and drafting for the future.......but, on the offense more than the defense.........defense through fa........and some drafting....
awaiting your scenarios.................smitty
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:25 PM   #2
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I don't see Payton going for a qb early. Seems to me he's more of a late round looker for qb. If defense is there I'd say that's where he'll go. We need depth on the line very badly. God knows we need d backfield help too. Payton may surprise me but he seems to have his finger on what we need and I think he'll find it.
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:23 AM   #3
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I think we go offense with our first pick unless a guy like Paul P, Revis, or Spencer falls into our lap. I think it's going to be balanced with our draft picks. If we do select a quarterback in the draft, it's going to be on the second day imo. Lots of solid guys to develop.
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:22 AM   #4
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Here You go Smitty

hagan, scenarios, please.........

lets say we wrap up the deal with jason david......maybe the coaching staff really likes something about him, such as team player etc.......

Do not rule out getting another CB early because of this. Eric Wright IMO is the most under-rated CB in the draft. Daymeion Hughes has taken the most beating. I am looking at skilled positions that can up grade the special teams also later in the draft. We have Bulked up special teams in the middle but have yet make a move to upgrade speed and tackling from the outside. Aaron Ross seems to be the CB to pick at 27, because of his skills as a special teamer. Bang for the buck. Plus he has that cover 2/man coverage skill sets like Jason.

and lets say that boogey is right and the saints will not go after bowe if available at our pick..
and, of course all the top corners are gone when we pick.........

depending if no one goes after any of the top recievers after the first 2 or 3, refer to your reciever list, it will be kinda one sided as to bpa available at our pick with reciever being the likely pick because of quality/quanity......
tight end may fall too........

Olson is on the board. The only thing about his game that bothers me is the lack of his willingness to block. I do not know if it was because he was in such a messed up system in Miami or not. Interview will be key for him to sell Shawn. If the situation was the key then he would be a great addition. But the draft has some good TE this year. Not great but good. either way the position can be upgraded in the draft.

but, what about a qb? i brought this up when carr was rumored to be leaving long ago....now we did not get him but of all people, carolina.......
and, who we may draft certainly would not be able to take the reigns if brees were to go down, but, the future need not be overlooked........
question one?
which qb would be worthy of the 27th pick?

NONE.

Unless the rest of the NFL pulls a Minnesota melt down and lets one drop to us.
The best, NFL ready, QB's left in draft IMO are
John Beck, BYU
Trent Edwards, Stanford
Why are we in a big rush here? I still say Martin is a proven backup. The one game he played in, he had the second string in there, against a very good defensive team. So a QB in the draft is not an area of real need. This is Shawn speciality. He has proven he knows how to pick'em. Will we get one? probably. When and which one? Got me. But I am sure Shawn knows. I trust him.

question two?
which wide reciever?

Lets include all these as options.
2. Dwayne Bowe Sr. - 6022, 221, 4.40, LSU
3. Robert Meachem - 6020, 214, 4.39, Tennesse
4. Dwayne Jarrett - 6040, 219, 4.50, USC
5. Ted Ginn Jr. - 5112, 178, 4.39, Ohio State
6. Steve Smith - 5116, 197, 4.44, USC

Bowe and Meachem. I would give Bowe the edge because of blocking and his play in the middle of the field. The only thing that bothers me with the two of them is one year of producing. But Bowe is out, as per boogeys' instructions.

Jarrett just seems to be odd man out here. I just do not see him in Black and Gold. Maybe Bush is in LaLa land right now trying to get Jarretts' head screwed on right.

" Jarrett's has minor character concerns issues that revolve around his lack of ideal straight-line speed, questionable work habits and unwillingness to be coached. He has been accused of slacking off is when he is not the primary target. While his straight-line speed is average for his size and position, the failure to be overly flexible and to cut in and out on his routes is probably a more pressing issue. "

Meachem and Smith. Smith is finally getting some respect. Could not believe he started the draft season off as a third rounder. But as with Jarrett you get some character concerns, minor as they are called. Meachem seem to be more of a Saints player here but you have to look at Smiths play. All he does is produce.

Ted Ginn and Steve Smith.

Niether Smith nor Ginn will probably be a #1 WR.
So which player will have the most impact and help build for the future? Tough call.
First thing I think is "Impact" in round 1.
Second, Bang for the buck.
Ginn fills both needs.

"Not a true #1 target. He will at the very least be a top-notch return man in the pros but might ultimately be more of a #2 or #3 option as a receiver."

Perfect if Colston works out as planned. Besides most of the flaws in Ginns' game can be coached out of him. Henderson is a FA next year so speed at WR might be a good investment at 27. The Beer Man is not getting any younger. He is signed thru 2008. He is getting some good money.

From a buisness stand point it makes the most sense. If he comes to camp and is a better WR than the NFL thought he might be and he may gets handed the #2 spot. Henderson might be on the Block before the season begins. Heck a late round gem may put him there anyways. The beer man would end up doing just that, drinking beer and watching the games with the rest of us from home. This would effect Stecker also.

Figure in Hendersons new contract in 08 and what is owed to ML and you pretty much have the salary covered. With one more roster spot open. I am not even thinking about any cap costs by cutting him loose. Worse case you got all 3 on the roster. Ginn and ML on returns. Henderson on the ouside, Ginn running out of the slot, with Reggie flanked out and Closton on the other edge. The national media would love this set up.

Ginn and the "slow to heal" is a bit of a concern, but hey, if it was me and millions of dollars on the line I would hold off as long as possible to make sure I showed the best I could. Besides when it comes to ankles we had a year of Bushs' ankle to get it right.

question three?
who really thinks the saints won't go offense if that's what available?

Not me.
If a player is there that Shawn wants he will draft them. This year he can move up for a player and we all know he will drop and still get his man. Another draft of going what??? Who??? I think last years draft woke us all up. We are looking hard and deep at the players just hoping to guess 1/2 of them right.

Last edited by hagan714; 04-20-2007 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:30 AM   #5
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Which Way do We go? Which Way do We go?

and question four?
does anyone really think the defense will dominate our picks.......?????/

Truthfully there is no telling.
On the offensive side of the ball I have brought this up more than once. We do not have the offensive line complete yet. The Saints proved they can play with any team in the NFL. The only teams that got the best of us were the elite defensive teams. Big, fast and quick DL killed us. We got hammered up the middle. Drew just could not step up in the pocket to avoid the outside pass rush. LG IMO has to be addressed. A good back up OC is needed. This year is a good year for OC/OG hybrids. One that maybe able to start at OG and slide over if needed. Killing to birds with one stone. Goodwin can only do so much and he is a FA in 2008. I do not care how we guggle the line, there are a number of options out there. Something has to be done. We are only a couple of injuries away from collapse. We did pick up some good "Street FA" this year. So watch them. We may already have an answer there. But most are the OG/OT types. The practice team is already looking better this year.

We talked about WR and CB and I think we could draft 2 of each and once again we are talking about being able to contribute on special teams from day one.

Then there is Stecker who is also a FA in 2007. I sware as the year went on we saw less and less of him. I am thinking he might be replace. But that would depend on who can take over his KR duties. Thats part of the Ginn effect list. I love Duce and Bush on the field together, but when one goes down the storm turns more of a spring rain. A back up is needed here also. One that can do the third down bit and still have the bulk to hammer it up the middle. Once again I threw this idea out there. I hope Jamaal Branch can turn into the back every one alse seems so sure he can be. I am not that sold on that idea. He is a little to straight lined to me.

So I see areas of need on the offensive side of the ball that needs to be addressed or upgraded to compete with the elite defenses in the NFL.

As for the defensive effect on the draft.

We all know Gibbs did a great job last year with and I qoute.

" With the players we have on roster, we are running the 4-3".

Now we all talked about Gibbs and his experience in 3-4 systems last year. The same goes with Gibbs staffs.
The offer sheet to Jason who as every one is telling us is best fit in a cover 2 system makes me wonder. Then add all the pre-draft rumors of Grant and some teams are interested....... so forth and so on. I want to see what kind of defensive players we draft. Remeber we are using an attacking style of the 43 defense. So quickness is key. That allows us to use these hybrid UT/DE, DE/LB, OLB/ILB, LB/S and CB/S tweener types. You can bet that they will have to be able to step in on day one and play on special teams.

Could this year be the start of building towards a 34 sytem?

Picking Ninkovich last year kind of surprised to me because he is one of those DE/LB hybrids that makes a 34 work. He is by now means a true 43 OLB or DE. Now "IF" Grant is part of a draft day trade I will be watching to see what the Saints do very closely here. That would throw the door open to some very good option to start the transition period. This year there some interesting UT/DE, DE/LB and ILB/OLB hybrids in the mid rounds of the draft. All of which can function in a 43 while taking the year or two to adjust to the NFL. Shawn will not gut the defense like Parcell did in Dallas. He lived through it. So I do not think he will go down that road. It will be over years with highly athletic player like Ninkovich. Speculation here I know but that is what the Draft is all about for us fans.

With all that said, God only knows what Shawn will do. But I do know on thing:

Need will take a back seat to BPA.

We are not nearly as bad off this year as we were last year. Heck I am still giddy over last year too. So nice to a winner. We have a good foundation so now we are going to start building the house. Upgrade, Upgrade.
Well smitty there is my buck and ten cents worth. Ginn is the best overall option. He would be the best bang for the buck and could have biggest effect on the roster. The worse thing that happens is we end up with a ton of speed next year. Thats a good thing.

At 27 we should be looking at the #1 OG, #3 OT, #3 DT, #2 OLB, #4 DE options besides the CB, TE and WR options we have talked about.

The day after the draft we all can go back to this and probably get a good laugh. If you are not on the floor already.
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Old 04-20-2007, 09:13 PM   #6
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If we get David, we will grab a WR or my best guess would be a TE in the 1st and the best DT left in the 2nd.
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