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More Vick News, Stool Pigeon Comes Forward

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; By Kelly Naqi Special to ESPN.com (Archive) Updated: May 27, 2007, 10:48 AM ET He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera ...

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Old 05-27-2007, 01:13 PM   #1
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More Vick News, Stool Pigeon Comes Forward

By Kelly Naqi
Special to ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: May 27, 2007, 10:48 AM ET


He arrived at the hotel room, where our cameras were set up, in a T-shirt and jeans. "I'm nervous," he said, surveying our lights and camera equipment. "I've never done anything like this before."

Our confidential source says he's been involved in dog fighting for over 30 years. He's trained and fought -- by his estimation -- around 2,000 pit bulls and was poised to tell "Outside the Lines" about the time in 2000 when his dog squared off against a dog owned by someone he referred to as one of the "heavyweights" of the dog fighting world: Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick.

"He's a pit bull fighter," the source says of Vick. "He's one of the ones that they call 'the big boys:' that's who bets a large dollar. And they have the money to bet large money. As I'm talking about large money -- $30,000 to $40,000 -- even higher. He's one of the heavyweights."

On April 25, authorities raided a house in Surry County, Va., owned by Vick and reportedly found -- among other things -- 66 dogs (most of which were pit bulls), a dog-fighting pit, blood stained carpets and equipment commonly associated with dog fighting. Vick was not at the scene and denied knowledge of dog fighting at the property. To this point, no charges have been filed against him. But questions about Vick and his possible connection to dog fighting linger.

This source -- who required anonymity as a condition of our interview -- has helped law enforcement by supplying information on dog fights that has led to dozens of felony arrests.

"I've fought dogs, I pitted them, I bred them and I've done everything with them," says the source of his three decades in dog fighting. He then went on to describe the scene from that night seven years ago, as he took his 42-pound dog into the pit (the area where dogs fight) to face off against Vick's dog. He says Vick did not get into the pit, but had a member of his entourage handle his dog, while Vick placed bets with the 20 or so people in attendance.


Outside The Lines

Michael Vick's role in dogfighting's hidden society and a look at why some athletes participate in the brutal and illegal activity are examined Tuesday at 3:30 p.m. ET on OTL.

"Then he started, you know, waving money," the source says. "He was betting with everybody ... He said he got $5,000. He said he's betting on his animal."

While the source says he doesn't know how much Vick bet that night, he does recall the matches' outcome: Vicks' dog lost. He says Vick is known in the dog fighting community as "the man that comes with all the money" and his reputation is "[that] he brings a good dog and he's going to bet and he's going bring a nice sum of cash."

ESPN contacted Vick's agent, Joel Segal, who did not respond to the source's allegations.

In the U.S., dog fighting is considered a felony in every state except Wyoming and Idaho. Despite that fact, according to the Humane Society, it's estimated that somewhere between 20,000 to 40,000 people in this country take part in this multi-billion dollar industry.

"I believe that dog fighting is on the upswing," says John Goodwin, the deputy manager of the Animal Cruelty Campaign for the Humane Society. "And I believe that certain elements of the pop culture have glamorized dog fighting and glamorized big, tough pit bulls."

American pit bull terriers account for 99 percent of the species involved in dog fighting, and a pit bull puppy can cost as much as $5000. An average dog fight carries a $10,000 purse.

So why would a professional athlete risk his reputation -- and a lifetime of financial security -- to do this? "For the thrill of it," says a member of the Professional Football Hall of Fame, who asked not to be identified. "It's like gambling, no different than when Michael Jordan drops $100,000 on a hole of golf."

There's no official data on just how many professional athletes may be associated with dog fighting today. Before the current investigation against Vick, in the last couple of years, only two professional athletes stand out as having been publicly linked to allegations of dog fighting: former NBA forward Qyntel Woods (who faced possible charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005) and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson, who pled guilty to three charges related to dog fighting, also, in 2005. Johnson is currently serving a five year deferred sentence. But those players only scratch the surface of what Goodwin calls a 'subculture' of dog fighting among professional athletes.



Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking. Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him.
Confidential source

"You know, it's very interesting that we have got a whole roster of names of professional athletes that we know are involved in dog fighting," Goodwin says. "Surely, not every single one has come to light; I bet not even 10 percent have come to light."

If that's true, one reason may have to do with the "Code of Silence" among dog fighters. The source says many matches take place on rural farms, with 'lookouts' stationed in the woods and down surrounding roads, up to eight miles away. He adds that sometimes, local sheriffs are paid off to look the other way -- that is, when they're not participating in the dog fights themselves. But with up to two hundred people in attendance at any given match, how is it possible that a high-profile athlete can attend dog fights and never have word get out to the general public?

"Dog fighting is a very private thing," answers the source, who says that Vick was still involved in dog fighting as recently as last year. "It's all Pit Bull Men. It's close knit: you got your little boys, then you got your heavyweight boys. It's a completely different class ... And now [that] it's all over the media, and you have to keep it more private."

The source says he consented to our interview to change people's perceptions about dog fighting, because they have "the wrong idea" about it and should see "just one" match for themselves before judging it. "They'll let this other thing go -- what is it called? UFC [Ultimate Fighting Championship]?" he asked. "That is every bit as bad -- you know, that's terrible. But then you have thousands of people that cheer, rah, rah, and they really love that. You see guys get their heads busted, you know, and they get their arms messed up, their legs twisted almost off. But then they fuss over this here, is wrong."

When asked what he thinks people's reactions will be when they learn of his account of Vick's involvement in dog fighting, the source was nonplussed.

"They shouldn't be really upset, OK?" he said. "Because it's only just an animal. It's just a dog that is raised up. He's put out there, you know, and he's chained up, OK. And the time he gets a certain age, this dog is going to want to fight. It is bred in him, OK? He knows what he is and he's going to fight. Just take him off the leash, let him go."

"Dog fighting is illegal for a reason," says Goodwin. "It's a severe form of cruelty."

"The gameness that the dog fighters strive for -- and 'gameness' is the willingness to continue fighting, even in the face of extreme pain, even in the face of death -- is something that's bred into the dogs," Goodwin says. "There are pit bulls that have been bred away from the fighting lines that are perfectly socialized but the game bred dogs -- bred for fighting -- just have it bred in them, to want to kill any dog in front of them."

On Friday, Surry County Commonwealth Attorney Gerald Poindexter told The Associated Press that the investigation against Vick is "moving forward." When contacted by ESPN and asked for a response to the source's contention of Vick's involvment in dog fighting, Falcons spokesman Reggie Roberts responded via e-mail, "Michael was drafted by the Falcons in 2001. The allegations regarding him are still under investigation, and until we have facts related to the investigation, we are unable to respond further."

The NFL released this statement: "Dog fighting is cruel, degrading, and illegal. We support a thorough investigation into any allegations of this type of activity. Any NFL employee proved to be involved in this type of activity will be subject to prompt and significant discipline under our personal conduct policy."

While the NFL continues to monitor the Vick investigation, there's another group closely monitoring it as well … but for a different reason.

"Everybody in the dog world is worried about Michael Vick talking," the source added, shortly before leaving our interview room and heading back to work. "Michael Vick is making large money, he's making millions, OK? And if he has to tell on some people [to avoid prison time], I think he would tell … I don't put nothing past him."

Kelly Naqi is a reporter for Outside the Lines.

You say that were nuts for pulling for them, you call them sorry, you wonder why we deal with them year after year. Well New Orleans is like no other city in the world, and no fans are anything like saint fans.
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:25 PM   #2
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ok, now we have an eye witness.........
here is what i see.......
if vick comes forward now, without more evidence coming to light, i say he is suspendef for the whole yr with a possibility of return next yr provided he stays clean.
if not and more solid evidence comes out, vick is gone for good, no more nfl, no more nothing and possibly jail time...............
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:31 PM   #3
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that would be great, would much rather face joey harrington than vick. Hope with this Commish their isnt special treatment. So far he hasnt had to suspend any real stars!!!
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:27 PM   #4
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This article is really bad news for Vick and Falcon fans, a congressman is pushing for Vick to get punished for this and now this guy breaks his silence...
I'm worried about now if I'm Vick.
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Old 05-27-2007, 06:45 PM   #5
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if you read into this article, there is a nagging question that begs to be asked.............

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6852866

similar to the original posted first but..........
this one says the informants dog went against vicks dog in 2000 and the informant says the heavyweight could bet from 30.000 grand to 40 and beyond.
he did not say it happened in 2000 but he did say he saw it........
now, my question is this.........
if vick was even wagering 5 grand in 2000, where was he getting this money? i was not aware his parents were wealthy and this was a year before he was drafted...........any answers? smitty
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:34 PM   #6
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If he does get suspended, I think it would be 4 games max.
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Old 05-27-2007, 10:52 PM   #7
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The NFL can't really do anything until the investigation is complete, which could take awhile, as every level-local, state, and federal, is jumping in.

Goddell can't levy a suspension until Vick is found guilty or exonerated. If he hands out 4 games, and then Vick is found guilty, he looks stupid. Same thing if the suspension is too harsh.

Put me down for 4 games if Vick is 'innocent', and the whole season if he is found guilty.
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Old 05-28-2007, 12:18 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ScottF View Post
The NFL can't really do anything until the investigation is complete, which could take awhile, as every level-local, state, and federal, is jumping in.

Goddell can't levy a suspension until Vick is found guilty or exonerated. If he hands out 4 games, and then Vick is found guilty, he looks stupid. Same thing if the suspension is too harsh.

Put me down for 4 games if Vick is 'innocent', and the whole season if he is found guilty.
Really, I dont recall Adam Jones being found guilty of anything. He was just always at the wrong place, doing the improper thing. Nothing he did however broke the law.
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:45 AM   #9
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Thats right soulstar.
Felony is the key word. Convicted of a felony such as this is about as bad as it gets. Animal lovers will want him made an example of. They will go out of there way to make the NFLs life a living hell. God help anyone that wears a fur coat to an NFL city on game day. They will be every where, turning up the heat. The red paint will be flying again.
Then Vick turns into a Rat! This is going to be good if it plays out like the snitch says. Wonder what Vicks made for TV movie will be like when he sells his story.
Sorry gang, I am a sick pup when it comes to these thing. I am loving it.
He should have done humans illegally not dogs. The reaction would have less severe.

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"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!
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Old 05-28-2007, 07:04 AM   #10
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if i'm the falcons, coach/owner, right now i'm looking for a new qb....

if i'm vick, i'm in heated discussions with my attorney as to how i'll stand on a flea bargain......i'm also thinking the home boys in jail won't mind what kind of disease i have and will be glad to show me............
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