Defensive Front Four.
 

Kenny Smith Bio

Mobile, very athletic inside performer who has good movement skills and agility. Smith has quick hands and feet and he does a nice job knifing in from the inside. Kenny has good pursuit and body adjustment skills. Kenny has the foot speed to be a very explosive inside pass rusher and he gets heavy penetration from his tackle spot.

Smith has been a good special teams player, excelling at blocking kicks. Like most Alabama players, Smith needs to get bigger and stronger in the weightroom. Kenny needs to do a better job holding his ground at the point of attack on running plays. NFL teams will also want to thoroughly check out his surgically repaired knee. He did not quite play with the same intensity and all-out nature that he did as a junior. Fine performer, who has some real top flight athletic skills, but he needs to completely get over the knee injury, get stronger and play with the same intensity he did in 1999, to reach his full potential.

The coaches have been very impressed with Smith this year, He could be the biggest surprise on the roster this year.

Charles Grant

Grant had 7-sacks as a rookie last year, not too bad, considering he was on a defense that had little going for them last year. With a year under his belt, Grant figures to be even better this year.

Darren Howard

Proven starter who is a very good pass rusher and is also good at stopping the run. Howard had 8-sacks last year and is in the prime of his career.

J.T. Sullivan


Wide-framed athlete who plays with impressive quickness off the snap … Pursues until the whistle and is known as an all-out hustler … Has great hand strength, delivering a punishing jab to disengage from the blockers … Shows excellent balance and body control turning upfield … Can generate tremendous force upon impact and fights pressure continuously on the pass rush … Has that explosive short burst needed to collapse the pocket and get to the quarterback … Reacts to the plays instantly and has the strength to split double coverage.

Some feel that J.T. Sullivan will will eventually be the best tackle taken in this years draft.
Given Jim Hasletts experience on the defensive side of the ball, I don't think he drafted Sullivan with the 6th pick for nothing. Defensive line players can have a big impact in their rookie years because they don't have to worry as much about thinking and they rely more on their athletic ability. If Sullivan is the player that the coaches think he is the middle of our line will be much improved.

Overall

I'd say overall that there is a lot of talent here. There is also a lot of speed here, especially compared to last years group with Hand and Grady Jackson.

I'm sure there will be some growing pains, but given the Panthers rise from worst to near the top of the defensive standings, I think the Saints defese truely has a chance of being much, much, improved this year.

The front four's ability to generate pressure will make the whole defense's job easier.

How does everyone else see the front four doing this year??


[Edited on 6/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Defensive Front Four.
 

BTW: Billy you left me off your list too. Pak and I feel totally unappreciated, booohooo...

Our front 4 I think we\'ll be about average vs the run, but I think we\'ll be above average against the pass. We\'ll have an extremely quick front 4 that should cause many QB\'s nightmares.
I\'m concerned about the old addage of how to attack speed, run right at \'em. I think we\'ll be tested early and often right up the gut. Our schedule is disaterous if we can\'t stop the run.
Shaun Alexander
Eddie George
Edgerin James
Stephen Davis (twice)
Anthony Thomas
TJ Duckett (twice)
Alstott (twice)
etc

The coaches feel they\'ve addressed the problems up the gut and we\'ll certainly find out, but if they haven\'t it could be a lonnnnnnnnnng season. I\'m a bit more hopeful than I am convinced.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Sullivan--6\' 3\"/313

Smith--6\' 4\"/295

Grant--6\' 3\"/282

Howard--6\' 3\"/281


I dont\' think I would consider our front four small. I don\'t know how we compare to some of the better defenses in the NFL as far as size, but after the heavy lunch bunch experiment, it proves to me it\'s not all about size.


Tweeky, I enjoy reading your posts also. I agree with most of them.

Pak, What do you say to a guy who has: when in doubt I whip it out, on his post..lol
Hey, but I am a big Nuggent fan.

[Edited on 7/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Defensive Front Four.
 

That was his weight last year. The coaches said he came into mini-camp bigger, stronger and faster. I\'d guess he\'s at least 310. When he brings his A-game, he\'s a force. He just happened to bring his B-game too many times his 1st couple of years in the league. But thats why he was a 3rd round pick. Scouts know middle round picks need a few years to develop.
Kenny Smith was your typical 3rd round DE/DT. POTENTIAL! 2003 is the time to see if he\'s turned that potential into reality. Same deal with Melvin Williams, Stinchcomb, Kelly, Gardner and Holland. Look for them to contribute a few years down the line.
Too many people evaluate the upcoming season based on returning starters and this years draft. Few people take into account previous drafts picks that needed a few years to develop, like Smith, Craver, Allen, Hodge, and Mitchell.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Tweeky,

In my opionion, that\'s a very good point. Let\'s face it, unless our defensive front 4 is effective against both the run and pass, our offense will not carry this team to the big dance.

I will go on record right now and say that I think our defense is going to be night and day compared to last year.

There has been a lot of emphasis placed on defense this year and with the added development of Grant and Kenny Smith, this should be a good unit.

I know a lot of people don\'t have faith in Jim Haslett, but I do. The guy knows defense and defensive talent.

Defensive Front Four.
 

You\'re just begging for some Venturi slammin\' smack aren\'t you? :P

Defensive Front Four.
 

Haslett knows what\'s on the line this year. He\'s not going to let Venturi screw it up for him.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Yeah, we beat this to death a few weeks ago, I agree, Haslet is the DC, Venturi is simply an assitant. That would be like someone blaming Hue Jackson if the Redskins offense fails, when everyone knows its really Spurrier calling the shots.

Defensive Front Four.
 

In my honest opinion, I think our defensive line could be a force for years to come. Howard is a proven end. Grant showed flashes of greatness last year on the pass rush. Kenny Smith has been a perrenial back-up, but I think he\'s due to show what he can accomplish on the field. Jonathan Sullivan is young and untested in the NFL ranks, but I don\'t see it taking very long to him busting running backs in the mouth and ripped QB\'s heads off. Even though I have yet to see them play as a unit on the field, I\'m much more excited about them than last year\'s front four. If they can all learn to play together and get everything down quick enough, I\'d expect to see some explosions at the line and opposing QB\'s running for their lives.

Defensive Front Four.
 

I think everyone is going to be very surprised this year by our defense. It might not be the best, but then again, with our offense, we don\'t need it to be.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Our D line SHOULD be the cornerstone of our defense (although our safeties could be quite good). My fear is this: Howard get hurt, Grant shows that he still has flashes but he also still makes the mistakes that come with inexperience, same goes for Sullivan, and Kenny Smith shows why he has been a back-up and never a starter.

Don\'t get me wrong, I am hopeful that this group can come through. I have a reasonable amount of confidence that they will. I\'m just trying to play devil\'s advocate b/c everyone here is talking about how good these guys should be. Just flip that coin over and what you\'ve got is 2nd year starter, Rookie, 1st year starter, above-average veteran. Take Howard out of that mix and our D line looks really shaky. If they fall apart, so will we... b/c run stopping ability and pressure up front affect every other player on the field. If the D line fails, so will our linebackers, corners, and even safeties.

That being said, I do think they\'ll play well. I\'m just not sure how well until I see them in training camp or the first preseason game.

Defensive Front Four.
 

WhoDat,

I\'ve flipped the coin over so many times that I\'ve rubbed a hole throgh it. I never really consider injurys, because all teams have them. But your right, it could go either way.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Yeah man, I hate to always be the killjoy around here, but our defense is really questionable. I hope Grant, Sullivan, Smith, and Howard can step up, just like I hope Allen can come through big in his first year, or Ruff can really be the stud at MLB that we need, or Rodgers can play up to his potential, or Carter can stay clean and be the shutdown guy he\'s supposed to be, or that Thomas and Ambrose haven\'t lost a step, or Mitchell can truly be Knight with speed in his first year, or that Tebucky will finally start playing CONSISTENT pro bowl caliber football....

... starting to get my point? See all of the questions? If everything goes as planned this defense can be very good. The problem is that things almost never go as planned in football... I just think we all need to be realistic about this. Saying our offense can be top five in the league seems realistic to me. Saying our defense will be better than average (top15) isn\'t crazy, but I don\'t know how grounded it is in reality at this point... you know?

Defensive Front Four.
 

But compared to last years roster, this years appears better.
Saints were 27th last year at 362YPG
Middle (15th) yielded 324YPG

Thats only 38 yards per game better than the Saints or about 1 less possession for our opponents. I think the moves we made justify the optimism of of mid-pack Defense or better.

Defensive Front Four.
 

WhoDat,

I agree that we have a lot of question marks. It\'s hard to argue with most of what you say, but it is easier to build a defense than an offense. With that being said, it is not unusual for a highly drafted D-lineman to have a big impact in his rookie year. If I had to bet, I\'d bet he has a good rookie year.

Realistically speaking, Charles Grant should have a better year and he didn\'t play too bad last year.

Kenny Smith, he\'s the biggest question mark but the guy has some great skills. The coaches, who are around him the most, say he looks impressive. He is the biggest question mark though. I would not label him as a career back up though.

Darren Howard is proven and there is no question mark here.

I understand after seeing the horrid Saints D last year, it is easy to question how much better this D is going to be, but I\'m more exited about the D than I am the offense.

I\'m not looking for a miricle, just enough to make the opposing offenses kick a lot of field goals.

Would you want to kick FG\'s against our offense?

Defensive Front Four.
 

You both have very good points and I\'m not saying that I disagree with either of you. I\'m just saying that there\'s a real possibility that our D could be bad again.

I do disagree that it is harder to build a defense than an offense... ESPECIALLY in today\'s NFL. I\'m not telling you that you should be pessimistic. I\'m just saying that I will not get excited about a defense with 5 first time starters, 4 new players, no playing time together really whatsoever, led by Rick Venturi, until I see it produce.

Defensive Front Four.
 

We\'ll save which is easier to build an offense or a defense for another thread.

I\'ve taken everything you have mentioned into consideration and as optimistic as I am, there are a lot of question marks.

The thing about it is though, there\'s no question im my mind that they could be any worse than last years defense.

Defensive Front Four.
 

They could? How? Arrrrgh.
I think most people are a little too high on Sullivan including the coaches. Correct me if I\'m wrong, but aren\'t they planning on using him as a nose tackle and have Kenny Smith line up on either side of him? Sounds to me like they want to make him the anchor at least of the front four. He\'s going to have a good rookie year, but maybe expectations are a little too high.
Kenny Smith: May struggle against very heavy linemen when defending the run. Otherwise he should be okay.
Still hoping that Grady will get his act together so he can at least contribute 10+ plays every game to give the other two guys a breather.
With Grant and Howard providing an outside pass rush, this line can be quite dangerous. If our offense stays as explosive as last year, the pass rush will be the key to their success.

Defensive Front Four.
 

And why do u feel this way?Do you know something I don\'t?

When you take a guy with the 6th pick in the draft, can you really be too high on him?

If so, they shouldn\'t have drafted him...........

Defensive Front Four.
 

The coaches said he came in bigger/stronger/faster than last year but they didn\'t say how much bigger. If he put on 20lbs of muscle, he may not struggle against big linemen and may be a flat out stud. They implied that he turned heads.

But If he only put on 5 lbs, well whoopty frickin\' doo. He\'ll be back at #3 DE by week 4.

Defensive Front Four.
 

My line of thinking: Sullivan was worth the 6th pick. He will be one of the top rookies. HOWEVER he will not immediately become one of the top linemen in the NFL. There will be some growing pains, it\'s inevitable. When I say \"too high\" I mean that the coaches want him to become the dominant force he may be in 2-3 years from now this year.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Unless you know something I don\'t-- I don\'t think the coaches expect him to be one of the best. At least I haven\'t heard them say that.

I think they want to get the player they expected though. Which is one of the best rookie lineman this year.

I think your speculating on what the coaches expect from him??

Defensive Front Four.
 

I would think that after trading two 1st rounders and passing on more polished players like Trufant, Williams, and Kennedy, the expectations are going to be high not only this season but seasons beyond. Remember, with top 10 draft status and salary come top 10 expectations. I too expect him to dominate in a few years and it has nothing to do with what is being said about him. All you have to do is check the video tape. The man was a beast in the SEC last year. That\'s all I need to know.

Defensive Front Four.
 

I try not to be too over enthusiatic about Sullivan, because most memebers on here will say he is unproven and mistakes are inevitable.

But, I think D-lineman ,more so than any other position ,have a chance to make a big impact in their rookie year. If anyone has a hard time getting pumped about a defensive lineman that was picked #6 overall, then I don\'t know what it\'s going to take.

I\'m not saying he is going to be Warren Sapp in his first year, but I expect him to have a major impact, this year.

Having that one disruptive player in the middle causes so much choas that it opens up so many things for the rest of the D-lineman. The QB cannot step up in the pocket and the outside guys (Howard and Grant) will be meeting at the QB, like Swilling and Jackson use to. A lot of the credit went to Jackson and Swilling,deservedly so, but the guys in the middle (Wayne Maritn and Frank Warren) played a big part in that.

If no one followed Kenny Smith\'s college career, you might want to read up on this guy. He\'s a talent. I know he\'s unproven in the NFL, but I think he is going to have a major impact for the Saints this year.

It might be safe to say their unproven and let\'s wait and see, but my money is on us having a very, very, good defense.



And for all you doubters:

The Saints offense had a running back starting his first year. A WR (donte) starting his first year. A QB starting his second full year. A tightend (sloan) with his first year as a Saint. A rookie guard ( Bentley) and they didn\'t do to bad. Did they?

[Edited on 7/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Defensive Front Four.
 

2001/2002 defensive turn arounds....


Carolina-- 31st / 2nd

Atlanta--30th / 19th

Indy--29th / 8th

Tenn--25th / 10th

[b:a686a6477c] The defenses moved up an average of 19 spots. Which would make us the number 6 defense in the league compared to last year. Yeah I know.......but I would have to say since four teams did it, this would be the norm and not the exception to the rule.

[Edited on 8/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Defensive Front Four.
 

Four teams out of 32 makes for the norm? Or even better, 4 out of 16 below average? If those four teams moved up, what about the teams that moved down? Bottom line is that for every winner there is a loser so your line of reasoning is faulty. It is not the norm.

I understand what you\'re saying though. If they can do it so can we... but the fact of the matter is that BECAUSE they did it DOES NOT mean that we will. It means it is possible, not probable. You follow?

Defensive Front Four.
 

OK, work with me here.

There are 31 teams, which means only roughly 15 teams can move up in defense. I only listed the ones that moved up dramatically, but we\'ll go with that. Which means there\'s a 26.6% chance that we can do the same.

I know it really means nothing. I shouldn\'t have said it is the norm, but it\'s not uncommon for it to happen. Will we? I think there\'s a good chance, of course it\'s not a science.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Out of the 4 teams you listed, the Falcons got Wade Phillips at D-coordinator, the Panthers got John Fox and drafted the #1 defensive player, the Colts got Dungy and installed the cover 2 and drafted almost an entire defensive draft including the NCAA sack leader. As for Tennessee, they overcame alot of the injury bug, drafted impact defensive players, and got banner seasons from some vets.

We have kept Venturi. I\'d be surprised to see a top 10 finish, although I\'d be content just to not have to play shootout every game.

Defensive Front Four.
 

I\'m sure coaching played a part in the rise of some of the defenses, I don\'t think it had as much of an impact as your post suggest. If you have enough talented players, you can play any defense you want and be sucessful.

Players have often made a coach look like a genius one year and a chump the next.

The Saints drafted what should be an impact player in Sullivan and Kenny Smtih is talented. Add those two in with Grant and Howard and that should be reason for optimism in any Saints fan.

I have always beleived that it all starts upfront with a defense. Stop the run and you make a team one dimentional.

While no one knows how it will work out, I think we have as much chance as any of the 4 teams that did it last year.


[Edited on 8/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Defensive Front Four.
 

I agree that the front 4 is the glue of any great defense, not just in stopping the run but pressuring a QB and forcing the pass. Next to all of the great defenses have had exceptional D lines. I also agree that ours has some great potential to be disruptive to a QB. The only aspect that concerns me about the foursome is play recognition. Last year Howard and Grant would get great jumps and watch the play go right past them in their bee line for the QB. Sullivan and Smith will be pretty green up front. I\'m sure once they know it\'s run or a pass it will be jailbreak to the ball. It\'s when tehy figure out the play call that scares me.

Defensive Front Four.
 

From what I\'ve heard, the Saints defense ran a complex defense that required the players to think too much instead of letting their natural insticts take over.

This years defense is suppose to be much more simple. Add that in with a year\'s experience for Grant and I think it will make a big difference.

The area I\'m concerned about is linebacker.

Defensive Front Four.
 

This is one of our fundamental disagreements Billy. Coaching, in my opinion, is the single most important thing in the NFL. You can always find talent... it\'s the damn NFL after all. Great coaching is much more difficult... especially in a smaller market.

Those defenses got better b/c of their coaches. Just like the Rams did after they hire Smith... point is, as long as Venturi is at the helm there is a limit to how good our defense could be. Put the NFC Pro Bowlers on the field and I\'ll bet you Venturi couldn\'t make then the best D in the league.

Defensive Front Four.
 

Let me put it like this. I would bet that Venturi could take NFC pro-bowl players and make them the #1 defense before Buddy Ryan could take a group of third string defensive players and make them the #1 defense.

You get my point?

Defensive Front Four.
 

Buddy Ryan took a group of journeymen vets and added 8 draft pick defenders and made them one of the best in history.......twice

what has Rick done?

Defensive Front Four.
 

Your dancing LummOx. Answer the question. What\'s easier for Ryan to take a group of 3rd stringers and be #1 or Rick to make a #1 out of probowlers?

Defensive Front Four.
 

any d coordinator would take pro bowlers of course. I\'d bet money on Venturi, but your avoiding the point as well, Venturi has never proven he is a good coordinator at any level. Is it always bad luck in players, or does he just not get the best out of his guys.....would you take Rick Venturi in his prime or Buddy Ryan? Would you take Venturi to coach your defense or would you not?

Defensive Front Four.
 

Any defense that ever finished #1 did so because of talent. I don\'t think there\'s any argueing that?

Coaching and defesive shemes play a part, but ultimately talent is the deciding factor.

Venturi has proven nothing and I would take Buddy any day of the week.

If it were as simple as hiring a great coach, there would be no need to worry about what what players you have, this is the NFL and all players have talent.

Defensive Front Four.
 

A good coach can make a bad defense overachieve. A bad coach can play pro bowlers out of position, scheme plays against the strengths of a player and effectively remove him from the game. He can also incorrectly tutor a player and hinder his progress.

A good player must listen to his coach and do what he is told. A bad player must listen to his coach and do what he is told. Whether the bad player makes plays or not, he is put in a position to do so by a good coach and that\'s all any coach can ask of his coordinator. The coordinator doesn\'t often get the say in personel but has to play with what he has. What he does with the players is his problem.

Defensive Front Four.
 

LummOx, I swear you could could sell ice cubes to an eskimo.


I\'m not sure which side of the fence your on here. Is it better to have great players and an average coach or a great coach and average players?

Given the choice I would take the first one. I never said that coaching didn\'t play a part in the success of a defense or offense as far as that goes.

I guess what it all boils down to is who is more responsible for the success of a team, the players or the coaches.

I say players. What do you say?

Defensive Front Four.
 

Just to piss you off, when you say \"responsible\" I hear accountable and then I say the coach. Team success is created by unifying a concept and having individuals follow a plan. Individual success is of course a singular achievement, so I\'d say the coach is more responsible for \"team success\" as he unites the players to a common path.

:)