Football Digest
 

has predicted that the Saints will end up 4th in the NFC South. Not the NFL, not the NFC, but the NFC South. I have cancelled my subscription. That is all.

Football Digest
 

The highest I\'ve seen any national publication rate theSaints is second in the NFC South. Most putting us at 3rd or 4th. Hard to figure from where i\'m sitting, are we that smart or just that dumb in here? R E S P E C T ,guess there won\'t be any for N.O. till we win in Dec. All\'s well though, the team does seem to play better with a chip on its shoulder and I\'m sure the coaches will use the lack of respect as a motivating tool all season long.

Football Digest
 

If I had to bet my house, Id pick

1st Tampax
2nd New Orleans
3rd Atlanta
4th Carolina

We made more improvements than Atlanta did and we were basically even last year.
We were 2 plays from sweeping them.

I hate pickin TB 1st, but they are the best team in the NFL.
Before the alignment they were my 2nd favorite team.
Now I hope an out of control city bus wipes them all out :o JK

Football Digest
 

Well, lets see.......


QB- Coming off of shoulder surgery. Veiwed as a little on the stupid side and not a leader(even by some Saints fans)

MLB- Ruff is considered a situational backer who couldn\'t cover a peice of bologna with 2 slices of bread,

OLB- Rodgers is consiedered average at best.

CB- Ambrose and Carter are considered over the hill, with their best days behind them.

DT- Rookie on one side and an uproven player that has done nothing in the NFL on the other side.

D-coordinator- who is the worst in the league.

Worst team down the stretch.

I don\'t know why they picked the Saints last.


[Edited on 22/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Football Digest
 

Did you copy that straight off of the NOLA whiner forum?

ATL: QB who is one-dimensional, who faded miserably down the stretch when TB showed everybody how to defend him
DL: Undersized overachievers who can\'t stop the run
OL: A Sieve.
WR: Sloww-asss 3rd stringers, brought in a 2nd stringer w/ 1 good year to be wr savior
RB: Tiny undersized midget who\'s basically a 3rd down back, slow full back type waiting his turn
FB: Lost one of the best in the game
CB: One of the fewe teams as bad as the Saints
DC: Surprised everybody with the 3-4, who everybody figured out late in the season, just like the AFC east did.


Carolina:
QB: All four are 2nd stringers at best. Couldn\'t knock over a bowlin pin with best pass.
RB: Aging fragile shadow of former self, injured bust as back-up
WR: See RB, and nobody else. Not one could be a 3rd stringer on our team
OL: Below average at best. Probably worse.
TE: Who?
Defense: Lost best DC in league to Jax. Will easily be exploited this year.
LB: Can\'t name one
CB: Can\'t name one
ST: Good punter... WOW! Thats scary!!! Who\'s their kicker again?

TB: Solid in every aspect, but aging, bickering, and SB hangover may cost team 6 losses or more
QB: Only played 16 games one year in his life!
RB: Prison and bust
FB: FumbleBoy
WR: SLOW and ATTITUDE
TE: Who?
Kicker: Gay foreigner!

See, I can play the pessimist role too!

Saints:
One of the best offenses in the game, and will be as good or better with or without Brooks.
OL: Deepest in the league, top 3 at worst
RB: All pro, best in NFC
TE: Solid additions
WR: Top 3 unit in NFL
Special teams: Hands down best in all NFL, probably best NFL has seen in last 10 years
Defense: Upgraded EVERY position that needed it from last year.
CB: Two proven vets
Safety\'s: Could be top tandem in NFC
DL: Young and fast
LB: Young and fast, every position improved from last year, with either better talent or another year of development.

Yea, I see why they picked us 4th, because they are Morons!!!!

Football Digest
 

Tweeky,

I\'m just telling you how a lot of people see the Saints. Whether we want to admit it or not, there are a lot of questions on the defensive side of the ball. Tampa and Atlanta made the playoffs last year. We didin\'t. Carolina shouldn\'t be ranked ahead of us though.



I think my feelings on the Saints this year are known. I don\'t care what anyone says, the defensive side of the ball is much eaiser to fix than the offensive side. We\'ll be just fine.

And that comment about Brooks-- if you think it\'s that easy to lead this offense then any old QB should do, because Bouman hasn\'t proved a damn thing...

[Edited on 22/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Football Digest
 

IF, IF, IF everything goes right for the saints it will be a WAR to stay with ATL and TAMPA. Its going to take at least a 12-4 season to stay with ATL and TAMPA. Vick may be one dimensional but I don\'t think he laid on his tail all season and he has the LEAGUE playing on his side. Saints can\'t afford to play down to the competition this year.

[Edited on 22/7/2003 by FWtex]

Football Digest
 

I think it\'s F*cking great!!!! When was the last time that the schmucks at football digest (yes B&B, I am also cancelling my subscription) were ever right? They picked Tampa and NE to be the SB contenders this year with Tampa winning it all again. NE? Really? Over Miami, or Oakland? The Jets? Buffalo? KC?

But you know what, I like it when the Aints get no respect, b/c A) they don\'t deserve any until they prove they are a good team on the field, not just on paper, and B) b/c they always play better when they\'re underdogs. I like that we\'re being counted out. When was the last time the team that all of the experts predicted would win the Sb actually won the SB?

Football Digest
 

WHO cares what the experts say? The Saints actually play better as underdogs. Last year, there were several national personalities that actually started picking us to win. We failed. Until we win we won\'t have respect. The coaches have to perform just as the players have to.

As far as coaches go, I think Haslett, don\'t know. He\'s still learning I think. That\'s a good thing, but if he can\'t figure out how to survive December, God help us. McCarthy is pretty good. Venturi(sp?) I think he\'s a GOOD coach with average talent. By that, I mean he gets the average players to play at or above their potential. When he has talent, he seems to not be able to adjust to having extra abilitlies. Perhaps he makes things too complicated. Perhaps he takes more risks. I don\'t know. But, it seems to me the defense even more than the Offense, played to the level of the competition last year. If Defensively, the Saints can rank in the top 1/2 and the offense is level with the first 13 or so games, we will be a playoff team.

As Al Davis says...\"Just Win Baby\".

Football Digest
 

Normally, I\'d scorch your ass for the above statement, but I\'m on my way to happy hour. I\'m sure WhoDat, tweeky, or a few others will handle it for me. If not, I will do it when I get home.

Football Digest
 

Yeah that was hard to DIGEST. It\'s virtually impossible to get the national medias respect when you have an annual meltdown and a defense that had more holes in it last year than Saddams sons do today. The unknowns allow the doubters to cast shallow opinions upon the Saints. Even as we lead the league this year into the month of December the doubt will surface again. When you prove you can do something it is easier to be believed by the masses that you can do it again. The great thing about this time of year is that every team is undefeated. All 32 teams have hope. The separation of class normally starts to take shape after week eight. Even then, nothing is a sure thing. The Saints are now loaded with above average athletes with several potential stars. When several of these players have their breakout year this year the Saints will begin to get the attention and respect around the league and nationwide within the media circles. You first have to do it! Then comes the respect.

Football Digest
 

Willie Whitehead and Jerry Fontenot and I guess your counting Ashley Ambrose as well.

Football Digest
 

Happy Hour? It\'s the next morning dude!! Can I get the name of that bar?

[Edited on 23/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Football Digest
 

After Zook left the team, our defense has spiralled downward in performance. Can you blame that on the players? Sure, you can, but the parallels would target the defensive coordinator and the head coach. It\'s not like we had an erosion of talent on the defensive side. I\'d say he\'s an average coach with good talent, because he neither got the team motivated, nor did he run the right schemes to compliment his players\' strengths. You would have seen a huge difference if Zook was still around or if these players were playing for someone like Dave Campo.
Oh, and BC, I made that post last night, not this morning. I\'m not THAT much of an alcoholic.

[Edited on 23/7/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Football Digest
 

Yeah, I know. But was expecting you to come back right after happy hour and go into one of your classic rages. Nothing like a little buzz to really make you tell it like it is.

Football Digest
 

I thought about logging on last night after I got home, but thought it would be best to wait until the morning :D

Football Digest
 

We\'ve beat this to death before. Venturi in\'t as bad as some have claimed. If Hand and Jackson played only to 1/2 their ability, we\'d have been a middle of the pack Defense at worst. Before last season Haz and Venturi stated that they had a lot of holes and would have to work very hard to hide some of their weaknesses. And that was before Carter was suspended and Thomas broke his arm. Venturi is NOT our Defensive Coordinator.
Here\'s a hint as to who is: He won\'t be invited to Kyle Turleys house anytime soon, and was the DC for the Steelers a few years back.

Football Digest
 

Tweeky,

Your doing a lot of speculating about Venturi not being the D coordinator. Do you actually think that he would be on the coaching staff under false pretenses? Who do you think wil be making substitutions and doing the play calling during the games?

It might be fair to say that Haslett will not let Venturi cost him his job. Haslett isn\'t going to have Venturi on the staff as a figurehead.

You guys keep talking about how bad Venturi is and really have no idea what the guy does or does not know. Yeah I know you think you do. I\'ll wait and see.

Football Digest
 

I don\'t buy what you are selling. Fact- Venturi is the defensive coordinator. Even if he is the figure head for Haslett, he is the one that must answer the questions as to why the defense brought their A-game or why not. It\'s part of the job description. Being in the position that he is, he is the one that is more responsible for everything that involves the defense, than any other person on the coaching staff, Haslett excluded. Fact- best way to judge a coach is by the performance of his players. Do I really need to spell this out? You are correct- \"If Hand and Jackson played only to 1/2 their ability, we\'d have been a middle of the pack Defense at worst.\" Hand and Jackson were two good players that either A) weren\'t correctly coached, which falls on the shoulders of Venturi or B) weren\'t motivated, which falls on the shoulders of Venturi. Zook was a helluva defensive coordinator. There is no other explanation that I can see that would negate the fact that our once good defense degraded right after Zook left and Venturi took over the position.

Football Digest
 

Zook was a great defensive coordinator. Venturi has dropped the ball during his stint as defensive coordinator. We could argue the talent hasn\'t been there. We could argue that Some players haven\'t played to potential. You know what? If Venturi had half the passion as say a Bobby April had he could have motivated his slugs. He is their direct contact. Their weight soared and they lost their quickness. He is there to make sure that stuff doesn\'t happen. There are alot of guys who would kill to play. Desire and passion are a major part of the sport.

Football Digest
 

Venturi deserves the blame for last year, BUT, one year as D coordinator does not define his credibility or lack of.

This motavation argument doesn\'t hold water in my book. Does your boss have to motivate you on a consistant basis to get you to perform?This is the NFL for god\'s sake. If you need that much motivation, then your in the wrong business. Sure coaches are motivators but that is not their primary responsibility. Their job is to put the players in the best position to make plays. I\'m sure he didn\'t do that well enough, but I\'ll say this again..........Players can make a coach look like a hero or a zero. Schemes don\'t make tackles, players do. Schemes maximize a players ability and Venturi needs to do a better job. The talent on last years defense was not good. This year should be a much better evaluation of what kind of coaching ability Venturi has.

Football Digest
 

In sales? ABSOLUTELY! Schools have even caught on by offering motivation classes for upper management. If you get no motivation from your manager, and you work in sales, your stint with the company will be short lived. I\'ve actually seen this occur, many times over.

Actually defining the responsibilities of a coaching position is a little more indepth than what you are making it out to be. If they were only responsible for one thing, then why would you need a staff of coaches working underneath you?

Where exactly were we weak as far as talent is concerned on the defensive side of the ball? The potential was there, it just wasn\'t maximized.

[Edited on 23/7/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Football Digest
 

Speaking from a sales perspective, there are sales people that need motivation on a consistant basis. These are usually your guys that don\'t meet their objectives and require a lot of supervision. These guys always make excuses for why they did not meet their quotas. They see other salemen who make their quota with seemingly no effort. The sales people that are very successful require very little supervision and motivation and know what they need to do to be successful without being told or motivated on a consistant basis.

While a coaches job goes far beyond the X\'s and the O\'s of the game. That\'s what it all boils down to. That is what they are held accountable for.

The weak area on the defense was cornerback and linebacker mainly.

The arguement that the potential was there and wasn\'t maximized may and may not be true. Can you explain that ?

[Edited on 23/7/2003 by BillyCarpenter1]

Football Digest
 

Last year\'s starting lineup on defense:

DE- Darren Howard- proven stud at DE; I think we can all agree on that
DT- Grady Jackson- when in shape, can be a dominating force on the interior- proved that with his many years as a Raider, so what happened in the Big Easy?
DT- Norman Hand- once again, if in shape, can be a monster in the interior; two years removed from analysts raving about his gameplay- Fox gave him a truck because he was Howie Long\'s tough guy or whatever it was, why did his play go down at the same time that Zook left?
DE- Charles Grant/Willie Whitehead- Willie wasn\'t that good and Charles was in his rookie year. 1st legitimate weak spot so far. Don\'t take that as deragatory for Grant, it was his rookie year.
OLB- Sedrick Hodge- above average, but just barely. Has the potnetial, but hasn\'t performed at the level that he should
ILB- Charlie Clemons- outstanding outside linebacker- what moron decided to move him inside again?
OLB- Darrin Smith- weak; 2nd legitimate weak spot.
CB- Fred Thomas- good secondary corner; any man that can play in the secondary with a club for a hand has my respect.
CB- Dale Carter/Michael Hawthorne/Ken Irvin- 3rd legitimate weak spot, because of the late start Carter had and the poor play from Hawthorne and Irvin in coverage.
FS- Jay Bellamy- had no business starting; good for nickel and dime packages only; easily the 4th legitimate weak spot.
SS- Sammy Knight- pro-bowler who never waivered in performance

From where I stand, you have 4 out of 11 players who should not have been starting, because they never have nor ever will be, good enough to hold their position. What they do once they are out on the field, is up to the coaches and the players. And they share the responsibility of bad play, the players incur the rathe of the coaches/fans, the coaches incur the rathe of the owner/media/fans.

While I don\'t disagree with the above statement, these type of people number 1 out of 1000 sales reps. Motivation involves many things that have nothing to do with the traditional sense of the word. I\'ve got a customer in Little Rock that has a sales staff of 12 guys, 10 of which fit your description of a good sales rep. Then, I have another customer right around the corner that has 24 sales reps, 2 of which fit the description. The remainder rely on the motivation and support they recieve from the sales manager, I\'ve personally been there to see it. And they have been doing this for the past 18 years, and have been successful at it.

Football Digest
 

Let\'s start with your statement about 4 players that shouldn\'t have started. I agree with the players you pointed out. Could coaching and motivation really have made a big difference? I guess what I want to know is the biggest reason for the down fall of the defense the coaching or lack of talent, or both?

While I don\'t doubt what your telling me about your real life experiences in the sales world. It has been my experience that once a sales person has learned the ropes it\'s about making enough a) telemarketing calls b.) face to face calls c) mail-outs--or whatever works for your individual company. It\'s about making enough contacts to find someone that wants to buy now or in the very near furture. It\'s a numbers game. You talk to enough people and you will be successful, if you have any sales skills at all.

Any knowlegeable sales person knows what it takes to be successful. Motivation is a good thing in any aspect of the work force, but when your hiring potential sales people you want self starters that require little motivantion or supervision.


When you hire people that need to be motivated on a consistant basis, this usually means they aren\'t living up to expectations or why else would you have to keep motivating them? Usually they are not happy with all the pep talks and lose interest and quit. It\'s a frustrating situation for all involved.

Football Digest
 

That statement describes sales to a \"T\". You call 100 people, 10% will be willing to listen, and you should get 2 out of that 10 to buy. I know this system VERY well.

That company I talked about that is around the corner, the two sales people that you described, report into their sales manager twice a year. That\'s it. They both work out of their homes, handle their business, and do extremely well. They don\'t need the constant support that the other 22 sales people need, who are also successful, they just need the \"attaboy\" every now and again.

EDIT: I\'ll address the rest of yourt post when I get home from work. I\'m tired and do not want to be at the office anymore.




[Edited on 23/7/2003 by BlackandBlue]

Football Digest
 

Didn\'t we flog this horse about a month ago. Everything is ..DejaVu

I think a \"Brooks Sucks\" comment will tangent off of this next...

Football Digest
 

You know now that you mentioned it..........Brooks.........By the way, we should all look for Billy to crest the 500 post milestone before most of us wake in the morning. Be sure to congradulate him.

[Edited on 24/7/2003 by subguy]

Football Digest
 

I\'m going to have to go home and take a nap to make up for all the sleep I missed worring about you---- I\'ll make you a deal. I will not respond to anymore of your posts and you continue to say what you will about me. This will make it a fair fight!!

Football Digest
 

I blame coaching, I think there are coaches that could have gotten alot more out of our defense than Venturi did last year. This is speculative, I guess, although I can\'t comprehend looking past the coach to the players. It\'s like the kid that burns down his school, yeah the principal isn\'t directly at fault, but he also doesn\'t want that on his resume.