Jame Martin...

21counterZ-trap · 08-19-2007, 09:42 AM

Martin has no pocket presence. It's something that I've noticed before from him. He's a turnover waiting to happen, and doesn't have the mobility to compensate for it. At 37, he's not going to develop pocket presence. At Pittsburg he got several passes batted down because he can't make that little sidestep to get the ball off. I see Brees do it all of the time, I even saw Fife do it vs Pitt. Tonight, he held the ball and didn't feel the rush, AND didn't protect the ball when he was hit.

BTW, he only lost 1 of his 3 fumbles. Fact is, he looked really bad, at least to my eyes. I venture to say he looks like the worst QB on our roster.

Euphoria · 08-19-2007, 10:33 AM

At least others are starting to see what I have been talking about. If Sean is keeping him around as a favor, this has got to be the very last year of him before he should retire. He should go ahead and retire today! Let Fife and Palko have there shot, I'd rather keep these guys and let them develop instead of letting them develop and be someone elses gem in the rough.

blacksaint · 08-19-2007, 12:04 PM

God forbid, but if something happened to Drew, I would rather have a vet like Martin than a couple of guys that never been through it before. Martin have won games in the NFL, I'm not going to judge him on a few preseason games, those turnovers concern me a lot but, he's definitely the best of the backups.

Dan the Man · 08-19-2007, 01:12 PM

The problem with Martin is he holds the ball too long and doesn't know how to get away from tacklers. In a fast-paced offense like the Saints, sitting there holding onto the ball until someone is WIDE open doesn't work. In fact, there were even times when our receivers were pretty open (I wouldn't quite say WIDE open) and he still just held onto it. It's like he just can't decide who he wants to throw it to. If he gets hit, he fumbles it everytime. And when you hold onto the ball for that long, you get hit. Not only does he hold onto the ball too long, but he just sits in the same spot. He doesn't move, he has no pocket presence.

Then there was the play where Reggie Bush was WIDE open only open field behind him. It was probably about a 10-15 yard pass and Martin throws it about 5 feet (I might be being a little generous on that 5 feet) behind him. Dude, that would have been a touchdown. Yes, looking at the stats and not watching the game, Martin looked alright. But then look at Matt Baker's stats. The kid only had 1 possession in the game where as Martin played more than half of the game. And Baker's stats weren't too far off from Martin's. Not to mention he moved around in the pocket, even ran out of the pocket away from tacklers when he had to, and then would even tuck the ball away and run for however many yards he could get.

You can talk about Jamie Martin's experience as a vet all you want, but I think last night this Baker kid looked more experienced than Martin did. If Drew Brees does go down, do we really want to sacrifice wins for experience? I don't.

LongTimeFan · 08-19-2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

God forbid, but if something happened to Drew, I would rather have a vet like Martin than a couple of guys that never been through it before. Martin have won games in the NFL, I'm not going to judge him on a few preseason games, those turnovers concern me a lot but, he's definitely the best of the backups.

You an I are fishing out of the same pond BlackSaint.
I said in another post that I too would love to have a vetran QB behind Drew instead of a rookie QB.

Re: Final 53
"I think having a veteran backup QB is important in the NFL, God forbid something were to happen to Brees I'd feel a lot better with Martin out there than a rookie QB going into the playoffs.
I will say though that this will be Martin's last season with us."

blacksaint · 08-19-2007, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dan the Man

The problem with Martin is he holds the ball too long and doesn't know how to get away from tacklers. In a fast-paced offense like the Saints, sitting there holding onto the ball until someone is WIDE open doesn't work. In fact, there were even times when our receivers were pretty open (I wouldn't quite say WIDE open) and he still just held onto it. It's like he just can't decide who he wants to throw it to. If he gets hit, he fumbles it everytime. And when you hold onto the ball for that long, you get hit. Not only does he hold onto the ball too long, but he just sits in the same spot. He doesn't move, he has no pocket presence.

Then there was the play where Reggie Bush was WIDE open only open field behind him. It was probably about a 10-15 yard pass and Martin throws it about 5 feet (I might be being a little generous on that 5 feet) behind him. Dude, that would have been a touchdown. Yes, looking at the stats and not watching the game, Martin looked alright. But then look at Matt Baker's stats. The kid only had 1 possession in the game where as Martin played more than half of the game. And Baker's stats weren't too far off from Martin's. Not to mention he moved around in the pocket, even ran out of the pocket away from tacklers when he had to, and then would even tuck the ball away and run for however many yards he could get.

You can talk about Jamie Martin's experience as a vet all you want, but I think last night this Baker kid looked more experienced than Martin did. If Drew Brees does go down, do we really want to sacrifice wins for experience? I don't.

It's still the preseason, Baker played during mop up time.

FireVenturi · 08-19-2007, 03:00 PM

i can save everyone some time ...Martin is terrible, every time I have seen him, whether pre-season or reg. season(last game, last year).

blacksaint · 08-19-2007, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by FireVenturi

i can save everyone some time ...Martin is terrible, every time I have seen him, whether pre-season or reg. season(last game, last year).

When you take in account that he played against Carolina starters with our backups, he really did a decent job. Just check out his numbers:

2006 stats:
Comp_Att_Pct_Yds_Avg_Tds_Ints_Sck_Rate_Fum_Lost
__16_24_66.7_208_8.7__1___1___5___90.3__3___1

Weather you believe in him or not, he's the best option we have on the roster at this time. Could we do better? Hell yes, we can. But for right now he's the best backup QB. Now, I am very concern about the fumbling, very concerned.

Dan the Man · 08-19-2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by blacksaint

It's still the preseason, Baker played during mop up time.

I understand that, but the point is he was making dead on throws alot of pressure on him and hands in his face. Martin could not do that. He got away from would-be tacklers. Martin could not do that. He got rid of the ball quick. Martin could not do that. Whether it was the 2nd string or the 3rd string they were playing against, the Bengals defensive line still dominated our offensive line, and their pass defense was no better or worse. Coverage was just as tight when Martin was in as it was when Baker was in. And the "It's only the preseason" excuse doesn't work here. The preseason is the only chance these guys have to prove themselves worthy of making the team, and Martin didn't do it.

spkb25 · 08-19-2007, 03:54 PM

i think we still need martin for now, like the look of palko for the future. god forbid anything happens to the most important player on this team, brees. if brees goes down for any real significant amount of time we are in trouble. not many teams could lose their starting qb, one on the level drew is, and not be in trouble. just the way it is. who the heck wants kurt warner. talk about fumble problems. the guy starts looking at his hand as if he doesnt know what the hell is a matter with it.

08-19-2007, 09:42 AM	#11
21counterZ-trap 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lafayette Posts: 120	Re: Jame Martin... Martin has no pocket presence. It's something that I've noticed before from him. He's a turnover waiting to happen, and doesn't have the mobility to compensate for it. At 37, he's not going to develop pocket presence. At Pittsburg he got several passes batted down because he can't make that little sidestep to get the ball off. I see Brees do it all of the time, I even saw Fife do it vs Pitt. Tonight, he held the ball and didn't feel the rush, AND didn't protect the ball when he was hit. BTW, he only lost 1 of his 3 fumbles. Fact is, he looked really bad, at least to my eyes. I venture to say he looks like the worst QB on our roster.

08-19-2007, 10:33 AM	#12
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Jame Martin... At least others are starting to see what I have been talking about. If Sean is keeping him around as a favor, this has got to be the very last year of him before he should retire. He should go ahead and retire today! Let Fife and Palko have there shot, I'd rather keep these guys and let them develop instead of letting them develop and be someone elses gem in the rough.

08-19-2007, 12:04 PM	#13
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: Jame Martin... God forbid, but if something happened to Drew, I would rather have a vet like Martin than a couple of guys that never been through it before. Martin have won games in the NFL, I'm not going to judge him on a few preseason games, those turnovers concern me a lot but, he's definitely the best of the backups.

08-19-2007, 01:12 PM	#14
Dan the Man Registered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Orleans Posts: 87	Re: Jame Martin... The problem with Martin is he holds the ball too long and doesn't know how to get away from tacklers. In a fast-paced offense like the Saints, sitting there holding onto the ball until someone is WIDE open doesn't work. In fact, there were even times when our receivers were pretty open (I wouldn't quite say WIDE open) and he still just held onto it. It's like he just can't decide who he wants to throw it to. If he gets hit, he fumbles it everytime. And when you hold onto the ball for that long, you get hit. Not only does he hold onto the ball too long, but he just sits in the same spot. He doesn't move, he has no pocket presence. Then there was the play where Reggie Bush was WIDE open only open field behind him. It was probably about a 10-15 yard pass and Martin throws it about 5 feet (I might be being a little generous on that 5 feet) behind him. Dude, that would have been a touchdown. Yes, looking at the stats and not watching the game, Martin looked alright. But then look at Matt Baker's stats. The kid only had 1 possession in the game where as Martin played more than half of the game. And Baker's stats weren't too far off from Martin's. Not to mention he moved around in the pocket, even ran out of the pocket away from tacklers when he had to, and then would even tuck the ball away and run for however many yards he could get. You can talk about Jamie Martin's experience as a vet all you want, but I think last night this Baker kid looked more experienced than Martin did. If Drew Brees does go down, do we really want to sacrifice wins for experience? I don't.

08-19-2007, 02:42 PM	#15
LongTimeFan Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Louisiana Posts: 2,403	Re: Jame Martin... Originally Posted by blacksaint God forbid, but if something happened to Drew, I would rather have a vet like Martin than a couple of guys that never been through it before. Martin have won games in the NFL, I'm not going to judge him on a few preseason games, those turnovers concern me a lot but, he's definitely the best of the backups. You an I are fishing out of the same pond BlackSaint. I said in another post that I too would love to have a vetran QB behind Drew instead of a rookie QB. Re: Final 53 "I think having a veteran backup QB is important in the NFL, God forbid something were to happen to Brees I'd feel a lot better with Martin out there than a rookie QB going into the playoffs. I will say though that this will be Martin's last season with us."

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08-19-2007, 02:45 PM	#16
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: Jame Martin... Originally Posted by Dan the Man The problem with Martin is he holds the ball too long and doesn't know how to get away from tacklers. In a fast-paced offense like the Saints, sitting there holding onto the ball until someone is WIDE open doesn't work. In fact, there were even times when our receivers were pretty open (I wouldn't quite say WIDE open) and he still just held onto it. It's like he just can't decide who he wants to throw it to. If he gets hit, he fumbles it everytime. And when you hold onto the ball for that long, you get hit. Not only does he hold onto the ball too long, but he just sits in the same spot. He doesn't move, he has no pocket presence. Then there was the play where Reggie Bush was WIDE open only open field behind him. It was probably about a 10-15 yard pass and Martin throws it about 5 feet (I might be being a little generous on that 5 feet) behind him. Dude, that would have been a touchdown. Yes, looking at the stats and not watching the game, Martin looked alright. But then look at Matt Baker's stats. The kid only had 1 possession in the game where as Martin played more than half of the game. And Baker's stats weren't too far off from Martin's. Not to mention he moved around in the pocket, even ran out of the pocket away from tacklers when he had to, and then would even tuck the ball away and run for however many yards he could get. You can talk about Jamie Martin's experience as a vet all you want, but I think last night this Baker kid looked more experienced than Martin did. If Drew Brees does go down, do we really want to sacrifice wins for experience? I don't. It's still the preseason, Baker played during mop up time.

08-19-2007, 03:00 PM	#17
FireVenturi Cold as Ice! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Da Big Easy Posts: 2,978	Re: Jame Martin... i can save everyone some time ...Martin is terrible, every time I have seen him, whether pre-season or reg. season(last game, last year).

08-19-2007, 03:26 PM	#18
blacksaint DARE TO ENTER Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home Sweet Home, NEW ORLEANS, La. Posts: 1,154	Re: Jame Martin... Originally Posted by FireVenturi i can save everyone some time ...Martin is terrible, every time I have seen him, whether pre-season or reg. season(last game, last year). When you take in account that he played against Carolina starters with our backups, he really did a decent job. Just check out his numbers: 2006 stats: Comp_Att_Pct_Yds_Avg_Tds_Ints_Sck_Rate_Fum_Lost __16_24_66.7_208_8.7__1___1___5___90.3__3___1 Weather you believe in him or not, he's the best option we have on the roster at this time. Could we do better? Hell yes, we can. But for right now he's the best backup QB. Now, I am very concern about the fumbling, very concerned.
	Last edited by blacksaint; 08-19-2007 at 03:28 PM..

08-19-2007, 03:52 PM	#19
Dan the Man Registered Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New Orleans Posts: 87	Re: Jame Martin... Originally Posted by blacksaint It's still the preseason, Baker played during mop up time. I understand that, but the point is he was making dead on throws alot of pressure on him and hands in his face. Martin could not do that. He got away from would-be tacklers. Martin could not do that. He got rid of the ball quick. Martin could not do that. Whether it was the 2nd string or the 3rd string they were playing against, the Bengals defensive line still dominated our offensive line, and their pass defense was no better or worse. Coverage was just as tight when Martin was in as it was when Baker was in. And the "It's only the preseason" excuse doesn't work here. The preseason is the only chance these guys have to prove themselves worthy of making the team, and Martin didn't do it.

08-19-2007, 03:54 PM	#20
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Jame Martin... i think we still need martin for now, like the look of palko for the future. god forbid anything happens to the most important player on this team, brees. if brees goes down for any real significant amount of time we are in trouble. not many teams could lose their starting qb, one on the level drew is, and not be in trouble. just the way it is. who the heck wants kurt warner. talk about fumble problems. the guy starts looking at his hand as if he doesnt know what the hell is a matter with it.