Does Vick deserve shot at redemption?

JOESAM2002 · 08-24-2007, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by BlackandBlue

Don't mistake what I am saying, Joe. If he is guilty, I hope he is persecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If what I heard was correct, the state mandate is 5 years for every dog, which equates to 40+ years, in additional to the federal charges. Yes, do it, lock him up. But I can't sit here and say that the man cannot earn a living, whether it be 5 years from now, or 40.

Me either. I hear by then MickyD's will still need fry cooks and cleanup men. He should fit right in. Embarrassment is a great form of punishment. Make that goofy bastard do some meanial work. Let him work a garbage truck, I know a guy here that will hire him and pay him top dollar. Minimun wage is great ain't it?

faithful40 · 08-24-2007, 09:50 PM

I just dont get it..Redemption? He should be banned for life..Playing in the NFL is an HONOR for select few. He had his moment and simply thought he was above the league and society. This has nothing to do with race, or gender..Let me explain something that some of you fail to realize..CODE OF CONDUCT.
I work in the oil industry for an international company which is well known. My actions when Im off of work..still reflect my actions as if im representing my company!
I tell my kids this..Everything that dad does is a reflection of my two sons. I tell them everything they do in their actions, words of hate or kindness is a direct reflection of me!
You lead by example..That is why we have some people in our society called law abided citizens and those who go to jail or simply stay in jail.
WE ALL HAVE CHOICES and DECISIONS IN LIFE..The difference is the choices we make are the result of those decisions we choose to make.
I earn about 75k a year. I am fortunate enough to not have a college degree and earn that type of living. I treat my current situation with respect and honor.
I would live like a saint if I knew I was making 130 million and I was in the public eye representing a hugh corporation which is paying my salary, Not to mention the other contract of obligations and considered by young kids as a role model. VICK DESERVES EVERYTHING HES GETTTING> He simply didnt account for the result of his decisions when The choice was made to conduct himself or involve himself in some cruel spectacle to which he thinks is a sport! So please, dont try and butter the seriousness of his actions! The sad part is..He let down all the people who thought highly of him as a role model and sports figure to be entertained with forcing dogs to fight till their death.

Tobias-Reiper · 08-25-2007, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by cadilacin

I respect yall boys opinion. But it doesn't change mine. and Tibias...I know plenty of kats who hunt just for the sport of it.

The bottom line is, there is no way to defend or justify Vick's actions. And thats not what i'm doing. I'm just saying that "I" feel that there are plenty of things that are accepted in society that are just as bad or worse than "dog fighting"

So he deserves a shot at "Redemption"...to me.

... I'll take your word for it, but personally, of all the people who I know who hunt, and I know a lot, they all eat what they kill.

Butv don't get confused, it is not just the "dog fighting" and cruelty to animals that has him in the situation that he's in with the Feds. It is that he ran and financed an interstate enterprise that sponsored illegal activies, including dog fighting, illegal gambling (which just about automatically includes tax evasion) , and drugs - lest we forget, the original raid to his house was on a drug warrant. Once he engaged similar enterprises ,as in pitting his dogs against other kennels' dogs and betting on them, then he became a racketeer.

So let's put dog fighting and cruelty to animals aside, because they actually mud the real issues the Feds are looking at. What we have is, at the very least:

Sponsoring illegal gambling
Sponsoring drug trade
Tax evasion
Racketeering

And those are the issues the Feds, as well as the NFL, care about. And that's why Vick is trying to plead to lesser charges that concern just dog fighting, so he doesn't have to face the music on any of the above.

So you can argue about some things being "worse" than dog fighting that are accepted in our society, but again, is not the meat of the issue with Vick.

saintfan · 08-25-2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by JOESAM2002

I'm not sure he can be reformed. It's not like he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong and against the law to start with. These kind of people have serious problems if you ask me. I really don't think you can compare this kind of behavior to any thing else. This is just plain sick. I don't care if you're black, white,yellow or what sick is sick. This obviously affects everyone involved with it. How can we as civilized people condone this? If we do......then how civilized are we. Maybe we need to look deep within ourselves. Anybody that condones this absolutely scares the devil out of me. I'm just glad you don't know where I live. I don't want to be found dead in my home just because someone dicided to play a game and go out and just kill someone. That's about as close to dog fighting as I can compare. Sick,just plain sick. Or maybe we could all get together and go out and do some drive by shootings? Sound about right? See how sick does this sound. Think about it. This is what's wrong with our country today. We let people get away with to much.

Easy Joe. You don't want to be accused of Bad-Mouthing the United States of America.

JOESAM2002 · 08-25-2007, 09:13 AM

LOL,I'm stuck in "Animal House." I can see it now. Oh my God, I'm bad mouthing the United States of America, where's my legal representative?(Tim Mathison).

saintfan · 08-25-2007, 09:39 AM

I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of Whatever...
and to the rehab, for which it stands,
One nation, with no morality or accountability,
with Liberty and a broken moral compass for all...

"cause this is MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER!"

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta Chapter.

Say what? Tell me, how does one aid in the rehab of a man who killed domestic animals for fun? Are you effin serious? Please, someone help me get wrapped around how 18 months in prison rehabs this behavior or how a person might otherwise be 'corrected'.

As a dog owner -- and my dog lives a great life -- someone look me in the eye and tell me how a person who can fill up a 5 gallon bucket with water and with both hands hold a dogs head under that water until it's dead be fixed by spending 18 months in jail or donating heavily to PETA or whatever. This kinda of activity is pure evil man...just plain 'ol evil.

And I agree playing in the NFL is an honer...sure as hell isn't a 'right', and I'm sure as hell not bad-mouthing the United States by saying so. Where's the logic in that statement? Perhaps this is just random babble? Gotta be...

...Cause this is MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER!

dasaints26 · 08-25-2007, 02:18 PM

Con'Vick' made one mistake he got caught. If we are to forgive him and allow him to continue on with his life after time served for this one mistake I say by all means.
But what about the mistake he made when these dogs were breed to kill other dogs or to be mauled to death by other dogs. And what about the dogs that were 2nd or 3rd string material that were hung, drowned, or beat on the ground till they died. I don't think he will make up for that mistake and be allowed to continue his life with the greatest job in America.
What about the mistake he made when he financed this kennel operation which would lead you to assume none of this would have happened if he did not have all that Nike money layin around. Sure the best way to pay for that mistake is to ensure he gets another $130 mill by playin in the NFL.
Vick didn't profit from gamblin on these dogs he just supplied the money for these bets. Sure he got tired of havin to supply his boyz with some runnin around money. Maybe he should have started a business for them or had one of his investors lay out a nice portfolio. The quickest way to have money seems to be get a job. I have a job and I don't support 20 of my buddies from 1st grade. I think this problem for Vick will be solved he won't have to support all his buddies.
I think there are alot of jobs that require a clean past, not gettin locked up, not harmin the image of your employer and I'm happy that the NFL is one of those companies. I think the media is to blame because they do beat a dead horse but I dont think that is goin to change. I dont want my 3 yr old watchin highlights of a dog fightin ring when Vick gets out of jail and is lookin for a new team. It doesnt seem like a tough choice act normal or find a new job every player has an option.

saintfan · 08-25-2007, 06:10 PM

Uh Oh. Yet another basher of the United States.

/sarcasm off

spkb25 · 08-25-2007, 10:47 PM

Him torturing animals speaks to a larger issue. he has something extremely wrong with him. Also lets not cloud this, jail is not to reform someone. it is to pay for your crime. it is not and never will be to reform someone.

Brann · 08-26-2007, 12:25 AM

Torturing and killing animals are the typical hallmark of a serial killer in training. Personally, I just think that Vick is a disturbed individual who isn't bright enough to understand the import of his actions. I don't think he can be rehabilitated and I don't think he deserves to play in the NFL ever again. It's a privilege and not a right. I hate this sense of entitlement people have nowadays.

08-24-2007, 09:38 PM	#31
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by BlackandBlue Don't mistake what I am saying, Joe. If he is guilty, I hope he is persecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If what I heard was correct, the state mandate is 5 years for every dog, which equates to 40+ years, in additional to the federal charges. Yes, do it, lock him up. But I can't sit here and say that the man cannot earn a living, whether it be 5 years from now, or 40. Me either. I hear by then MickyD's will still need fry cooks and cleanup men. He should fit right in. Embarrassment is a great form of punishment. Make that goofy bastard do some meanial work. Let him work a garbage truck, I know a guy here that will hire him and pay him top dollar. Minimun wage is great ain't it?

08-24-2007, 09:50 PM	#32
faithful40 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? I just dont get it..Redemption? He should be banned for life..Playing in the NFL is an HONOR for select few. He had his moment and simply thought he was above the league and society. This has nothing to do with race, or gender..Let me explain something that some of you fail to realize..CODE OF CONDUCT. I work in the oil industry for an international company which is well known. My actions when Im off of work..still reflect my actions as if im representing my company! I tell my kids this..Everything that dad does is a reflection of my two sons. I tell them everything they do in their actions, words of hate or kindness is a direct reflection of me! You lead by example..That is why we have some people in our society called law abided citizens and those who go to jail or simply stay in jail. WE ALL HAVE CHOICES and DECISIONS IN LIFE..The difference is the choices we make are the result of those decisions we choose to make. I earn about 75k a year. I am fortunate enough to not have a college degree and earn that type of living. I treat my current situation with respect and honor. I would live like a saint if I knew I was making 130 million and I was in the public eye representing a hugh corporation which is paying my salary, Not to mention the other contract of obligations and considered by young kids as a role model. VICK DESERVES EVERYTHING HES GETTTING> He simply didnt account for the result of his decisions when The choice was made to conduct himself or involve himself in some cruel spectacle to which he thinks is a sport! So please, dont try and butter the seriousness of his actions! The sad part is..He let down all the people who thought highly of him as a role model and sports figure to be entertained with forcing dogs to fight till their death.
faithful40 Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1

08-25-2007, 06:14 AM	#33
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by cadilacin I respect yall boys opinion. But it doesn't change mine. and Tibias...I know plenty of kats who hunt just for the sport of it. The bottom line is, there is no way to defend or justify Vick's actions. And thats not what i'm doing. I'm just saying that "I" feel that there are plenty of things that are accepted in society that are just as bad or worse than "dog fighting" So he deserves a shot at "Redemption"...to me. ... I'll take your word for it, but personally, of all the people who I know who hunt, and I know a lot, they all eat what they kill. Butv don't get confused, it is not just the "dog fighting" and cruelty to animals that has him in the situation that he's in with the Feds. It is that he ran and financed an interstate enterprise that sponsored illegal activies, including dog fighting, illegal gambling (which just about automatically includes tax evasion) , and drugs - lest we forget, the original raid to his house was on a drug warrant. Once he engaged similar enterprises ,as in pitting his dogs against other kennels' dogs and betting on them, then he became a racketeer. So let's put dog fighting and cruelty to animals aside, because they actually mud the real issues the Feds are looking at. What we have is, at the very least: Sponsoring illegal gambling Sponsoring drug trade Tax evasion Racketeering And those are the issues the Feds, as well as the NFL, care about. And that's why Vick is trying to plead to lesser charges that concern just dog fighting, so he doesn't have to face the music on any of the above. So you can argue about some things being "worse" than dog fighting that are accepted in our society, but again, is not the meat of the issue with Vick.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill

08-25-2007, 09:09 AM	#34
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Originally Posted by JOESAM2002 I'm not sure he can be reformed. It's not like he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong and against the law to start with. These kind of people have serious problems if you ask me. I really don't think you can compare this kind of behavior to any thing else. This is just plain sick. I don't care if you're black, white,yellow or what sick is sick. This obviously affects everyone involved with it. How can we as civilized people condone this? If we do......then how civilized are we. Maybe we need to look deep within ourselves. Anybody that condones this absolutely scares the devil out of me. I'm just glad you don't know where I live. I don't want to be found dead in my home just because someone dicided to play a game and go out and just kill someone. That's about as close to dog fighting as I can compare. Sick,just plain sick. Or maybe we could all get together and go out and do some drive by shootings? Sound about right? See how sick does this sound. Think about it. This is what's wrong with our country today. We let people get away with to much. Easy Joe. You don't want to be accused of Bad-Mouthing the United States of America.

08-25-2007, 09:13 AM	#35
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? LOL,I'm stuck in "Animal House." I can see it now. Oh my God, I'm bad mouthing the United States of America, where's my legal representative?(Tim Mathison).

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08-25-2007, 09:39 AM	#36
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of Whatever... and to the rehab, for which it stands, One nation, with no morality or accountability, with Liberty and a broken moral compass for all... "cause this is MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER!" "As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta Chapter. Say what? Tell me, how does one aid in the rehab of a man who killed domestic animals for fun? Are you effin serious? Please, someone help me get wrapped around how 18 months in prison rehabs this behavior or how a person might otherwise be 'corrected'. As a dog owner -- and my dog lives a great life -- someone look me in the eye and tell me how a person who can fill up a 5 gallon bucket with water and with both hands hold a dogs head under that water until it's dead be fixed by spending 18 months in jail or donating heavily to PETA or whatever. This kinda of activity is pure evil man...just plain 'ol evil. And I agree playing in the NFL is an honer...sure as hell isn't a 'right', and I'm sure as hell not bad-mouthing the United States by saying so. Where's the logic in that statement? Perhaps this is just random babble? Gotta be... ...Cause this is MY UNITED STATES OF WHATEVER!

08-25-2007, 02:18 PM	#37
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Con'Vick' made one mistake he got caught. If we are to forgive him and allow him to continue on with his life after time served for this one mistake I say by all means. But what about the mistake he made when these dogs were breed to kill other dogs or to be mauled to death by other dogs. And what about the dogs that were 2nd or 3rd string material that were hung, drowned, or beat on the ground till they died. I don't think he will make up for that mistake and be allowed to continue his life with the greatest job in America. What about the mistake he made when he financed this kennel operation which would lead you to assume none of this would have happened if he did not have all that Nike money layin around. Sure the best way to pay for that mistake is to ensure he gets another $130 mill by playin in the NFL. Vick didn't profit from gamblin on these dogs he just supplied the money for these bets. Sure he got tired of havin to supply his boyz with some runnin around money. Maybe he should have started a business for them or had one of his investors lay out a nice portfolio. The quickest way to have money seems to be get a job. I have a job and I don't support 20 of my buddies from 1st grade. I think this problem for Vick will be solved he won't have to support all his buddies. I think there are alot of jobs that require a clean past, not gettin locked up, not harmin the image of your employer and I'm happy that the NFL is one of those companies. I think the media is to blame because they do beat a dead horse but I dont think that is goin to change. I dont want my 3 yr old watchin highlights of a dog fightin ring when Vick gets out of jail and is lookin for a new team. It doesnt seem like a tough choice act normal or find a new job every player has an option.
dasaints26 100th Post Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 167

08-25-2007, 06:10 PM	#38
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Uh Oh. Yet another basher of the United States. /sarcasm off

08-25-2007, 10:47 PM	#39
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,057	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Him torturing animals speaks to a larger issue. he has something extremely wrong with him. Also lets not cloud this, jail is not to reform someone. it is to pay for your crime. it is not and never will be to reform someone.

08-26-2007, 12:25 AM	#40
Brann Ill-tempered Texan Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pascagoula, MS Posts: 228	Re: Does Vick deserve shot at redemption? Torturing and killing animals are the typical hallmark of a serial killer in training. Personally, I just think that Vick is a disturbed individual who isn't bright enough to understand the import of his actions. I don't think he can be rehabilitated and I don't think he deserves to play in the NFL ever again. It's a privilege and not a right. I hate this sense of entitlement people have nowadays.