Payton out thinking himself

QBREES9 · 09-17-2007, 01:44 PM

Our Coach is out thinking himself.
Why all the substitutions, why duece in one play then out, then back in two or 3 plays later for just one play again. They will never develop a rythm like that. Why all these crazy formations and plays. Just line up and play agressive football. Why do I feel like payton is always trying to confuse and outsmart the other coach (It isnt working). In our last 3 losses, the defenses have kept the Safties back to prevent deep balls and have put lots of pressure on Brees, giving up the short gains underneath. This has killed us. I know we are not lacking on talent, less a few positions on D, but I hope to God Payton and the other coaches get this figured out because after 3 games there seems to be a very simple formula to beating Paytons Saints, pressure and deep coverage at the same time.

darstep · 09-17-2007, 02:38 PM

Designs and schemes and theories are all great until you have to tee it up...then you have to execute. When your play list is so long that you have to laminate six sheets front and back, and your quarterback has to wear a roller-deck on his wrist to keep up, you have gone waaaaaaaaaaay too far. It's FOOTBALL. Everybody pick somebody - then knock him on his a$$. Duece doesn't even get loose until he gets to 15 carries. He gets stronger as he goes...and the defense gets weaker. That's where the offense will develope its rhythm: in the paint, down in the trenches, between the tackles. Pass blocking gets easy after you've been driving Miss Daisy. Sean needs to unchain Karney and let him loose on whoever dares to fill a gap. After a while defenders will end up in the wrong place on purpose... DB's will hit the deck trying to tackle like Deon. Forget the flash! Win ugly like a man.

DeadmaN · 09-17-2007, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by darstep

...Everybody pick somebody - then knock him on his a$$...

if it were only that simple

I do agree with some of the points made like...

...they need to play more “strait forward ball”

(Why? Because that will open up the field to do off the wall plays with crazy packages. Teams will key on odd packages every time if that’s all you are running.)

...they do need to put Duce or Reggie in for one whole drive at a time or even one quarter at a time not a few plays here or there

(Why? Simply because if you change the package just to suite the play so the fresh guy that just came on the field can get the ball, well I hate to be the one to tell you this but who does everyone think the ball is going to go to….
That’s right the guy that just came on the field)

But I think a bigger problem is the defensive unit. You can’t give your team momentum unless your defensive unit can shut down a drive and force a team to give you the ball back. I personally do not think this defense is being utilized to the best of there ability. We need to get off the whole man-coverage all the time. They must find a way to start stopping the other team from moving the ball and until they do that it doesn’t matter how many weapons we have on offence because in the end points don’t mean crap unless your are the only one that has them.

Tobias-Reiper · 09-17-2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by DeadmaN

But I think a bigger problem is the defensive unit.

.. well, up until half way the 3rd quarter of the second game, the defense had out-scored the offense 7 to 3.

You cannot keep on going 3-and-out, fumbling the ball on your side of the field, missing field goals, and expect the defense to stop the opposing team every time.

Euphoria · 09-18-2007, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

Our Coach is out thinking himself.
Why all the substitutions, why duece in one play then out, then back in two or 3 plays later for just one play again. They will never develop a rythm like that. Why all these crazy formations and plays. Just line up and play agressive football. Why do I feel like payton is always trying to confuse and outsmart the other coach (It isnt working). In our last 3 losses, the defenses have kept the Safties back to prevent deep balls and have put lots of pressure on Brees, giving up the short gains underneath. This has killed us. I know we are not lacking on talent, less a few positions on D, but I hope to God Payton and the other coaches get this figured out because after 3 games there seems to be a very simple formula to beating Paytons Saints, pressure and deep coverage at the same time.

We don't have an aggressive hard nose football team. This team wasn't built that way. We are a finess football team. IF we were capable of playing hard-nose football we'd need an offensive line and a Defense. WE SUCK.

We got lucky one year. I hate to say it but for the past 2-3 years I have been calling for us to build on the damn lines out. We have yet to do it and look at us now. EXPOSED, bleeding.

The only way we stand a chance at winning some games is if morans decided to play run on us and let us have our passing game.

DeadmaN · 09-18-2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

.. well, up until half way the 3rd quarter of the second game, the defense had out-scored the offense 7 to 3.

You cannot keep on going 3-and-out, fumbling the ball on your side of the field, missing field goals, and expect the defense to stop the opposing team every time.

good points

Originally Posted by Euphoria

...WE SUCK...

...We got lucky one year...

oh come on it's not all that bad
you can't just give up on them yet

I remember just the other day when we played the colts you were defending them so hardcore when several of us were bashing the hell out of them and now you are acting like you have given up on them

Yes I will admit we have some big problems to overcome but it's not over till it's over
Hopefully it will pick up, and they will figure out what they are doing wrong
Then we can all look back on this and just refer to it as a crappy start
That they just needed to find there groove so then could find there momentum

Lets wait and see what happens next week and if they go 0 and 3 then I would say start hitting the panic button

Euphoria · 09-18-2007, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by DeadmaN

oh come on it's not all that bad
you can't just give up on them yet

I remember just the other day when we played the colts you were defending them so hardcore when several of us were bashing the hell out of them and now you are acting like you have given up on them

Yes I will admit we have some big problems to overcome but it's not over till it's over
Hopefully it will pick up, and they will figure out what they are doing wrong
Then we can all look back on this and just refer to it as a crappy start
That they just needed to find there groove so then could find there momentum

Lets wait and see what happens next week and if they go 0 and 3 then I would say start hitting the panic button

Don't use that "I given up" phrase with me. I was born and rasied a Saints fan. Turn 40 in Jan. I have yet to give up on them. I chose to live in reality instead of fantasy that is all. Sure we can end up in the Super Bowl this year still but until that happens. We are an 0-2 team. And the reality in that my friend is a loser. Hell I don't even consider us the best 0-2 based on the way we have played those games.

The worse thing that could have happened to us this year is that we played the Colts the first week of the season... a Champion who did some quick thinking and research, made an adjustment and exposed us so early in the season. The problem I don't think is fixable until our coaching staff wakes up and gets us out of that damn defense they put us in.

hagan714 · 09-18-2007, 06:46 PM

Simply put defenses are not scared of our offense. Why? Because of our defense. Let Bush go. He is not getting the defensive attention he was last year. Stunt and blitz the saints. That is the key. Odds are you will win the game. Our ship as a whole is taking on water. You do not have enough fingers to plug the leaks.

DeadmaN · 09-19-2007, 03:37 PM

never mind I'll keep that thought to myself

09-17-2007, 01:44 PM	#1
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,982	Payton out thinking himself Our Coach is out thinking himself. Why all the substitutions, why duece in one play then out, then back in two or 3 plays later for just one play again. They will never develop a rythm like that. Why all these crazy formations and plays. Just line up and play agressive football. Why do I feel like payton is always trying to confuse and outsmart the other coach (It isnt working). In our last 3 losses, the defenses have kept the Safties back to prevent deep balls and have put lots of pressure on Brees, giving up the short gains underneath. This has killed us. I know we are not lacking on talent, less a few positions on D, but I hope to God Payton and the other coaches get this figured out because after 3 games there seems to be a very simple formula to beating Paytons Saints, pressure and deep coverage at the same time.

09-17-2007, 02:38 PM	#2
darstep SaintSince67 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: PortCity Posts: 2,044	Re: Payton out thinking himself Designs and schemes and theories are all great until you have to tee it up...then you have to execute. When your play list is so long that you have to laminate six sheets front and back, and your quarterback has to wear a roller-deck on his wrist to keep up, you have gone waaaaaaaaaaay too far. It's FOOTBALL. Everybody pick somebody - then knock him on his a$$. Duece doesn't even get loose until he gets to 15 carries. He gets stronger as he goes...and the defense gets weaker. That's where the offense will develope its rhythm: in the paint, down in the trenches, between the tackles. Pass blocking gets easy after you've been driving Miss Daisy. Sean needs to unchain Karney and let him loose on whoever dares to fill a gap. After a while defenders will end up in the wrong place on purpose... DB's will hit the deck trying to tackle like Deon. Forget the flash! Win ugly like a man.
	SaintSince67

09-17-2007, 03:48 PM	#3
DeadmaN Saints Junky Join Date: May 2007 Location: Metairie Originally now a Houston transplant Posts: 672	Re: Payton out thinking himself Originally Posted by darstep ...Everybody pick somebody - then knock him on his a$$... if it were only that simple I do agree with some of the points made like... ...they need to play more “strait forward ball” (Why? Because that will open up the field to do off the wall plays with crazy packages. Teams will key on odd packages every time if that’s all you are running.) ...they do need to put Duce or Reggie in for one whole drive at a time or even one quarter at a time not a few plays here or there (Why? Simply because if you change the package just to suite the play so the fresh guy that just came on the field can get the ball, well I hate to be the one to tell you this but who does everyone think the ball is going to go to…. That’s right the guy that just came on the field) But I think a bigger problem is the defensive unit. You can’t give your team momentum unless your defensive unit can shut down a drive and force a team to give you the ball back. I personally do not think this defense is being utilized to the best of there ability. We need to get off the whole man-coverage all the time. They must find a way to start stopping the other team from moving the ball and until they do that it doesn’t matter how many weapons we have on offence because in the end points don’t mean crap unless your are the only one that has them.
	http://blackandgold.com/members/dead...1t-saints3.gif Last edited by DeadmaN; 09-17-2007 at 03:51 PM..

09-17-2007, 06:07 PM	#4
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: Payton out thinking himself Originally Posted by DeadmaN But I think a bigger problem is the defensive unit. .. well, up until half way the 3rd quarter of the second game, the defense had out-scored the offense 7 to 3. You cannot keep on going 3-and-out, fumbling the ball on your side of the field, missing field goals, and expect the defense to stop the opposing team every time.

09-18-2007, 04:24 PM	#5
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Payton out thinking himself Originally Posted by QBREES9 Our Coach is out thinking himself. Why all the substitutions, why duece in one play then out, then back in two or 3 plays later for just one play again. They will never develop a rythm like that. Why all these crazy formations and plays. Just line up and play agressive football. Why do I feel like payton is always trying to confuse and outsmart the other coach (It isnt working). In our last 3 losses, the defenses have kept the Safties back to prevent deep balls and have put lots of pressure on Brees, giving up the short gains underneath. This has killed us. I know we are not lacking on talent, less a few positions on D, but I hope to God Payton and the other coaches get this figured out because after 3 games there seems to be a very simple formula to beating Paytons Saints, pressure and deep coverage at the same time. We don't have an aggressive hard nose football team. This team wasn't built that way. We are a finess football team. IF we were capable of playing hard-nose football we'd need an offensive line and a Defense. WE SUCK. We got lucky one year. I hate to say it but for the past 2-3 years I have been calling for us to build on the damn lines out. We have yet to do it and look at us now. EXPOSED, bleeding. The only way we stand a chance at winning some games is if morans decided to play run on us and let us have our passing game.

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09-18-2007, 04:49 PM	#6
DeadmaN Saints Junky Join Date: May 2007 Location: Metairie Originally now a Houston transplant Posts: 672	Re: Payton out thinking himself Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper .. well, up until half way the 3rd quarter of the second game, the defense had out-scored the offense 7 to 3. You cannot keep on going 3-and-out, fumbling the ball on your side of the field, missing field goals, and expect the defense to stop the opposing team every time. good points Originally Posted by Euphoria ...WE SUCK... ...We got lucky one year... oh come on it's not all that bad you can't just give up on them yet I remember just the other day when we played the colts you were defending them so hardcore when several of us were bashing the hell out of them and now you are acting like you have given up on them Yes I will admit we have some big problems to overcome but it's not over till it's over Hopefully it will pick up, and they will figure out what they are doing wrong Then we can all look back on this and just refer to it as a crappy start That they just needed to find there groove so then could find there momentum Lets wait and see what happens next week and if they go 0 and 3 then I would say start hitting the panic button
	http://blackandgold.com/members/dead...1t-saints3.gif Last edited by DeadmaN; 09-18-2007 at 04:55 PM..

09-18-2007, 05:00 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Payton out thinking himself Originally Posted by DeadmaN oh come on it's not all that bad you can't just give up on them yet I remember just the other day when we played the colts you were defending them so hardcore when several of us were bashing the hell out of them and now you are acting like you have given up on them Yes I will admit we have some big problems to overcome but it's not over till it's over Hopefully it will pick up, and they will figure out what they are doing wrong Then we can all look back on this and just refer to it as a crappy start That they just needed to find there groove so then could find there momentum Lets wait and see what happens next week and if they go 0 and 3 then I would say start hitting the panic button Don't use that "I given up" phrase with me. I was born and rasied a Saints fan. Turn 40 in Jan. I have yet to give up on them. I chose to live in reality instead of fantasy that is all. Sure we can end up in the Super Bowl this year still but until that happens. We are an 0-2 team. And the reality in that my friend is a loser. Hell I don't even consider us the best 0-2 based on the way we have played those games. The worse thing that could have happened to us this year is that we played the Colts the first week of the season... a Champion who did some quick thinking and research, made an adjustment and exposed us so early in the season. The problem I don't think is fixable until our coaching staff wakes up and gets us out of that damn defense they put us in.

09-18-2007, 06:46 PM	#8
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Payton out thinking himself Simply put defenses are not scared of our offense. Why? Because of our defense. Let Bush go. He is not getting the defensive attention he was last year. Stunt and blitz the saints. That is the key. Odds are you will win the game. Our ship as a whole is taking on water. You do not have enough fingers to plug the leaks.

09-19-2007, 03:37 PM	#9
DeadmaN Saints Junky Join Date: May 2007 Location: Metairie Originally now a Houston transplant Posts: 672	Re: Payton out thinking himself never mind I'll keep that thought to myself
	Last edited by DeadmaN; 09-19-2007 at 03:40 PM..