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Defense Scheme ?

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Sorry if the question has been asked before (I looked but I can't find it) I am just wondering if anyone has any input to why the Saints (with current personnel) wouldn't consider trying a Cover 2 shell defense? In ...

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Old 09-18-2007, 10:23 PM   #1
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Defense Scheme ?

Sorry if the question has been asked before (I looked but I can't find it)

I am just wondering if anyone has any input to why the Saints (with current personnel) wouldn't consider trying a Cover 2 shell defense?

In my observations it appears that our corners/safeties are in man for the most part and is getting torched. Our d-line/linebacker corps aren't getting any pressure on opposing qb's, giving excessive time to pick us apart. Cover 2 shells usually subscribe to the "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy, if we can slow receivers down and keep them in front of our db's we could at least make some tackles.

Right?
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:29 PM   #2
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

This appears to be a bad place to ask this type of question. Some will tell you there is nothing wrong with the Defense at all... what are you talking about?

So what our defense gives up 30-40 points a game.

We have to get out of the man to man! We need to draft DL. THe word is out how to be the Saints and that is to open up score lots of points and play deep cover 2, taking away the passing game so we can't come from behind and win.
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Old 09-19-2007, 09:04 AM   #3
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Euph, I am 100% with you on this defense issue. We really need to dump the man to man. Cover two looks a whole lot better.
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Old 09-19-2007, 11:34 AM   #4
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Man coverage is only effective if your DB can actually cover someone. McKenzie is hovering around the average level here and no one else is capable at all. At this stage though it would be next to impossible to make the switch as likely all off season we have been practicing our current scheme. This is something that needs to be done at the end of the season and go after the personnel to run it properly.

At the current rate we are being burned deep it might come to us needing a deep 6 umbrella to keep plays in front of us
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:31 PM   #5
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

yea all i got to say is if they dont fix their defense then we can forget about the saint goin to the playoffs this year.....
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:45 PM   #6
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Originally Posted by lumm0x View Post
Man coverage is only effective if your DB can actually cover someone. McKenzie is hovering around the average level here and no one else is capable at all. At this stage though it would be next to impossible to make the switch as likely all off season we have been practicing our current scheme. This is something that needs to be done at the end of the season and go after the personnel to run it properly.

At the current rate we are being burned deep it might come to us needing a deep 6 umbrella to keep plays in front of us
It appears to be next to impossible to get David to look at anyone other than the QB though. If we aren't going to try another defense than some of the projects we have in the D backfield need to get on the field. Maybe Usama can actually look at the guy he is covering rather than the QB. KK has to be able to help some, McKenzie is doing alright, but as soon as you roll extra help to David and leave MC out there always alone the QB will start going after him. It has happened over an over so far this year.
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Old 09-19-2007, 03:26 PM   #7
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Originally Posted by djnatas View Post
Sorry if the question has been asked before (I looked but I can't find it)

I am just wondering if anyone has any input to why the Saints (with current personnel) wouldn't consider trying a Cover 2 shell defense?

In my observations it appears that our corners/safeties are in man for the most part and is getting torched. Our d-line/linebacker corps aren't getting any pressure on opposing qb's, giving excessive time to pick us apart. Cover 2 shells usually subscribe to the "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy, if we can slow receivers down and keep them in front of our db's we could at least make some tackles.

Right?
... why! Jason David plays cover2 every down!!

... seriously, your average NFL CB is only as good as the pass rush. Other than Rex Grossman, when any NFL QB gets 5 seconds in the pocket, it don't matter what defense you run.

I;m still baffled at the David signing. What is it that the coaching staff saw in this guy is beyond me. Every pass play he lets the receiver go by and looks at the QB. Every single pass play. So, he gets beaten every single pass play.

So, to summarize, no pass rush+ the CB version of David Terrell=everybody scores on the Saints.

But again, I'll point out, that up to half way the 3rd quater of the second game of the season, the defense had outscored the offense 7-3.

...It's a thing of beauty...

... special teams miss field goals.
... the defense can't stop anyone.
... the offense can't score.

..."would that be paper of plastic, Sir?"
Paper thank you. I'd suffocate with plastic.

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Old 09-19-2007, 03:58 PM   #8
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper View Post
...
..."would that be paper of plastic, Sir?"
Paper thank you. I'd suffocate with plastic.
Dude, I love it when you get like this.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:03 PM   #9
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Not by a long shot do I know much about schemes, but I will take a crack at it. From what I gather, the Saints use some type of cover 3 hybrid. Usually in a true cover 3, there are 3 defense backs that are usually responsible for 1/3 of the deep field each. In theory, this should eliminate the big plays but it's very flawed, especially at the pro level. Teams that run the West Coast offense can completely demolish this type of scheme. The cover 3 in theory prevents long passes and is usually good against the run. Short to intermediate passing games usually flourish though. Since the Saints play a lot of man to man it looks like a modified version of cover 3, and even more likely a DB gets burned for a big play. The cover 2 scheme relies more on front 7 speed. Since the Saints lack in the speed defense area this is not likely a solution with the current roster. In a perfect world a cover 3 defense can overcome lack of front 7 speed with great/at least good back 4 speed, especially since usually the SS is going to play more of a LB roll and offer run support. Unfortunately, maybe the Saints DB's have the speed but not necessarily the technique to properly cover. In any event it looks like the Saints need to make adjustments in a big way. An offense that can score points, not turn the ball over, and can at least get the defense in good field position will mask a lot of the weaknesses. Once the Saints can get their offensive issues resolved the defense will look much better.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:13 PM   #10
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Re: Defense Scheme ?

Ok, I guess I'll say it again, I'm not quite blue in the face. Dump the current d-coordinator before we go through another year of inept defense. The schemes he runs are not filled with the personnel he needs to pull it off and yet he keeps trying to pound a square peg into a round hole! Obviously, for what ever reasons that are unknown to the average fan, he doesn't have the propensity for change. And as we all know if you can't adjust in the NFL you will have your arse handed to you every game. Can I finally get an amen?
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