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How bout that O-LINE

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by papz Wow. Tell us how you really feel. If you don't calm down, I think the vein on your forehead is going to burst. I'm glad you were watching the game looking for things to rant on ...

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Old 12-11-2007, 05:20 PM   #11
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Originally Posted by papz View Post
Wow. Tell us how you really feel. If you don't calm down, I think the vein on your forehead is going to burst.

I'm glad you were watching the game looking for things to rant on the next day after a victory. I don't know whether or not you've watched the Pats last 3 games or so, Brady has been hit numerous times. Lines aren't perfect (and ours FAR from it)... they're going to make mistakes. As much as it's the lines job to give his quarterback enough time to throw, it's also the quarterbacks job to help them out and elude the rush. That's why they have legs.
that's what some do best, you know that. They gotta have something to gripe about. Nothing is ever good enough for some. Besides, who else would point out how wrong we all are?
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:24 PM   #12
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Originally Posted by JOESAM2002 View Post
that's what some do best, you know that. They gotta have something to gripe about. Nothing is ever good enough for some. Besides, who else would point out how wrong we all are?
Hey Joe, I'm happy with the win!!!
Great win and good play.
I don't care anymore how some fans who over look the good things that they do .
I will enjoy this win all week.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:02 PM   #13
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Originally Posted by LongTimeFan View Post
Hey Joe, I'm happy with the win!!!
Great win and good play.
I don't care anymore how some fans who over look the good things that they do .
I will enjoy this win all week.
===========

I have never overlooked the good things and can point some out for you right now.

Drew Brees...without him we are in trouble, he shows time and time again a quick release. Monday night some scrambling and a quick release was a big part of this win. He is very good at looking off coverage, I saw this happen at least 6 times. When he is given time he is one of the top 5 QB's in the league.

RB's... All I have to say is wow. Stecker really showed something. Without all the tricksy bullcrap the RB's played great and run very very effective. Stecker is a close second to Brees for the game ball on the offense this week.

TE's Johnson other than the drop in the end zone played well, Miller made a couple of very good grabs as well.

WR's...Patten, well I must say he played great, ecspecially considering he is very undersized, he has very good hands and besides COlston is our best WR. Colston...nuff said, he will turn out to be a GREAT WR in this league.

LT and LG... Other than one large blown play by Nesbit and one pretty bad play by Brown I must say they played very well. Brown used his leverage and seemed to pivot well on both legs, fending off spins and bull rushes both alike. Nesbit, played a great game other than one large missed assignment, I would to love to see him go against Tennessee again as I believe they have one of the best lines in the league and they abused us last time we played.

Overall, third downs were pretty good I think we were around 60% and we didn't turn the ball over. This has been and always will be the TWO most telling offensive stats.

=========

DT and NT, Hollis Thomas played damn well, not Amazing but pretty good. Grant caused some plays to misdirect but was pretty much bland for the game. Will Smith had probably his best game of the year. We caused havoc everywhere, running plays down on sweeps and in the backfield. I think he had a sack maybe 1.5

Safeties, Wow, KK and Harper. Our best Safety combo. It could be that Atlants isn't very good, it could be this combo could be great. Who knows? It worked Monday. KK is plain and simply a head hunter, I saw he and Harper both lay the lumber a couple of times, and you could see the ATL WR's running tentatively across the middle.

Corners, wow, MM almost recovered from getting juked and having his feet stuck under him. He still has speed and he seems to be getting better. If he was better at jamming I would say he could be a legitimate number 1 CB. Look at AL Harris and Woodson in GB, the reason they are both so good is that they can jam and have speed. If you can jam and not get juked you are good CB, if you have speed you can be great. MM is close to being a number 1.

LB's... Fujita played well, Shanle wasn't horrible. I still think BUllocks would be a great LB and move fujita to MLB. KK and Harper can handle the safety.

Hey Atlanta converted 2 or 3 third downs total under 20% rate, we had a INT. I am happy a win no matter how crappy a team is a win. I am happy and fully expect them to win out, we do not play any dominating Defensive lines and only Philly has an above average O line.


============

See our team did MANY, MANY things good to great. However saying we had no sacks is more a testament to Brees than it is to how our O line played on this night. Unfortunately this is more often the case than it is a testament to how good our O line played. Based on what I have seen this year our low sacks is more of a tribute to how Brees has played than how the offensive line has played. Our O line has played great some times, especially the Jaguars game.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:09 PM   #14
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

I do not get it. 100 yard rusher and 300 yard passer and no sacks and few plays allowed behind the line and the complaints still come. It is pro ball for the Gods sake. Is there room for improvement? Yes. But last night was solid.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:40 PM   #15
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB View Post
===========

I have never overlooked the good things and can point some out for you right now.

Drew Brees...without him we are in trouble, he shows time and time again a quick release. Monday night some scrambling and a quick release was a big part of this win. He is very good at looking off coverage, I saw this happen at least 6 times. When he is given time he is one of the top 5 QB's in the league.

RB's... All I have to say is wow. Stecker really showed something. Without all the tricksy bullcrap the RB's played great and run very very effective. Stecker is a close second to Brees for the game ball on the offense this week.

TE's Johnson other than the drop in the end zone played well, Miller made a couple of very good grabs as well.

WR's...Patten, well I must say he played great, ecspecially considering he is very undersized, he has very good hands and besides COlston is our best WR. Colston...nuff said, he will turn out to be a GREAT WR in this league.

LT and LG... Other than one large blown play by Nesbit and one pretty bad play by Brown I must say they played very well. Brown used his leverage and seemed to pivot well on both legs, fending off spins and bull rushes both alike. Nesbit, played a great game other than one large missed assignment, I would to love to see him go against Tennessee again as I believe they have one of the best lines in the league and they abused us last time we played.

Overall, third downs were pretty good I think we were around 60% and we didn't turn the ball over. This has been and always will be the TWO most telling offensive stats.

=========

DT and NT, Hollis Thomas played damn well, not Amazing but pretty good. Grant caused some plays to misdirect but was pretty much bland for the game. Will Smith had probably his best game of the year. We caused havoc everywhere, running plays down on sweeps and in the backfield. I think he had a sack maybe 1.5

Safeties, Wow, KK and Harper. Our best Safety combo. It could be that Atlants isn't very good, it could be this combo could be great. Who knows? It worked Monday. KK is plain and simply a head hunter, I saw he and Harper both lay the lumber a couple of times, and you could see the ATL WR's running tentatively across the middle.

Corners, wow, MM almost recovered from getting juked and having his feet stuck under him. He still has speed and he seems to be getting better. If he was better at jamming I would say he could be a legitimate number 1 CB. Look at AL Harris and Woodson in GB, the reason they are both so good is that they can jam and have speed. If you can jam and not get juked you are good CB, if you have speed you can be great. MM is close to being a number 1.

LB's... Fujita played well, Shanle wasn't horrible. I still think BUllocks would be a great LB and move fujita to MLB. KK and Harper can handle the safety.

Hey Atlanta converted 2 or 3 third downs total under 20% rate, we had a INT. I am happy a win no matter how crappy a team is a win. I am happy and fully expect them to win out, we do not play any dominating Defensive lines and only Philly has an above average O line.


============

See our team did MANY, MANY things good to great. However saying we had no sacks is more a testament to Brees than it is to how our O line played on this night. Unfortunately this is more often the case than it is a testament to how good our O line played. Based on what I have seen this year our low sacks is more of a tribute to how Brees has played than how the offensive line has played. Our O line has played great some times, especially the Jaguars game.

One thing i think you fail to see throught your blinders is that the play of offensive line and the play of the quarter back is kind of like a marriage, it's just no good unless you have both. both make mistakes and bth play well at times. give these guys some credit. They're not as bad as you say. the way you talk they all should be cut. I'm no expert on offensive line play but I played against many of them. This bunch isn't as bad as ya'll say. And I do wish ya'll would get off Jeff Faine's butt, he may not be great but he's the best we have. So until we get someone better i'll stand behind him and pull for him, just like everyone says we need to get behind our kicker.

Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot, than to open it and remove all doubt!!!!!

"Every time you think, you weaken the nation!" Moe Howard...The Three Stooges.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:06 PM   #16
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Post some ideas on my blog as to what we need to do. I am trying to get ideas for my FA and draft reviews in the of season. I do not need to agree with them but I want to hear them. I am not sold on my view 100% so please go there and get into some details of options you all have in mind for the saints to do.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:28 PM   #17
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Originally Posted by WhoDatQB View Post
=========

O line getting props? You have to be kidding. No sacks, blah, blah, blah, who cares, Brees was running for his life and getting hit or pressured constantly. Brown and Nesbit played pretty good games, but for the rest of them come on? Did you even watch the game?

I saw 8 count-em 8 horrible plays by Faine, flat our horrible, not bad. I saw 6 by Evans and 4 by Stinchcomb. These are the horrible plays, not bad or average.

Drew Brees played great IN SPITE of the O line, if he had protection he would be all world and we would be talking about him as a top 3 QB instead of a top 8.

I am tired of the WE ALLOWED NO SACKS OUR O LINE PLAYED GREAT B.S. If anyone in the online chat would like to point out where I showed all of them how poorly our line AS A WHOLE was playing feel free to jump in here. I pointed it out all night long.

Do not get me wrong I think we can win out and if Minnesota loses we can go to the playoffs, but alas our O line is not playing as well as the paper stats makes them look to be playing.

Someone else please help me out here. STOP THE INSANITY.
dude awesome break down.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:51 AM   #18
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Out of our 71 offensive plays Faine played horrible? What is a horrible play for a center? Was there 4 fumbles on the snap, 3 snaps over the head of Brees in shotgun, 1 snap when Brees wasnt looking? Was it one of our registered talent scouts with a TIVO that watches each play 5 times to track every lineman that came up with these numbers? Exactly how do you guys find out the blocking assignments for all of these plays? If you are not sure of the blocking assignments you just know that the linemen are not doing what their assignments are.
Well once again Brees throws for 68%. Behind this line that has allowed only 11 sacks he is completing 67.7% for the year. I'm not to sure Brees will be labeled as a mobile qb I think I would have to give the entire o-line some credit after Brees has throw the ball 520 times this year he has only been sacked 11 times. Brees did make some nice plays avoiding the rush seems like he made more this last game than he has had to make in other games. When we win with Brees I dont think people will ask was it his passing or his scrambling that did it. He is a pocket passer that is most effective when he can step into the pass and by looking at his numbers he was effective.
Sacks are just a stat like any other stat they dont tell the whole truth. 3rd down efficiency is a good indication of how well you move the ball but what if you cant convert in the red zone. It is great to move the ball down the field but what if you only come away with 3 points every time. 4 long drives give you 12 points. Seems like not giving up sacks would help with 3rd down%. I think by definition a sack is a negative play on the offense and just like silly false starts when the offense is going backwards it is harder to pick up 1st downs.
Either way after 520 passing attempts we have given up 11 sacks if I want to give credit to the o-line I cant say someone else is wrong for giving the credit to our slashing qb who runs around every play doing it on his own. I cant also single out one of our 5 lineman for doing it on his own so I cant argue that 4 of our linemen are doing all the work as our center runs around trying to tackle the guy with the ball. Out of our 71 offensive plays I cant say how many bad plays our TE had (well I do remember that 1 td drop) so I cant argue with how many horrible plays our center had truthfully I was to busy watchin Brees sit in the pocket and delivering the ball downfield to Colston. I still wish he would throw to Moore more I like his ability to catch. I think he could be a good playmaker for the Saints.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:41 AM   #19
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

Originally Posted by dasaints26 View Post
Out of our 71 offensive plays Faine played horrible? What is a horrible play for a center? Was there 4 fumbles on the snap, 3 snaps over the head of Brees in shotgun, 1 snap when Brees wasnt looking? Was it one of our registered talent scouts with a TIVO that watches each play 5 times to track every lineman that came up with these numbers? Exactly how do you guys find out the blocking assignments for all of these plays? If you are not sure of the blocking assignments you just know that the linemen are not doing what their assignments are.
Well once again Brees throws for 68%. Behind this line that has allowed only 11 sacks he is completing 67.7% for the year. I'm not to sure Brees will be labeled as a mobile qb I think I would have to give the entire o-line some credit after Brees has throw the ball 520 times this year he has only been sacked 11 times. Brees did make some nice plays avoiding the rush seems like he made more this last game than he has had to make in other games. When we win with Brees I dont think people will ask was it his passing or his scrambling that did it. He is a pocket passer that is most effective when he can step into the pass and by looking at his numbers he was effective.
Sacks are just a stat like any other stat they dont tell the whole truth. 3rd down efficiency is a good indication of how well you move the ball but what if you cant convert in the red zone. It is great to move the ball down the field but what if you only come away with 3 points every time. 4 long drives give you 12 points. Seems like not giving up sacks would help with 3rd down%. I think by definition a sack is a negative play on the offense and just like silly false starts when the offense is going backwards it is harder to pick up 1st downs.
Either way after 520 passing attempts we have given up 11 sacks if I want to give credit to the o-line I cant say someone else is wrong for giving the credit to our slashing qb who runs around every play doing it on his own. I cant also single out one of our 5 lineman for doing it on his own so I cant argue that 4 of our linemen are doing all the work as our center runs around trying to tackle the guy with the ball. Out of our 71 offensive plays I cant say how many bad plays our TE had (well I do remember that 1 td drop) so I cant argue with how many horrible plays our center had truthfully I was to busy watchin Brees sit in the pocket and delivering the ball downfield to Colston. I still wish he would throw to Moore more I like his ability to catch. I think he could be a good playmaker for the Saints.
=====
I do not have all the info with me at work but let me say this. 4th and 1 and getting stood up completely by an inferior defensive line is a horrible play, The moving out of your lane and allowing a delayed blitzer to come in when the guy you turned to chip with did not need any help, allowing(yet again) a screen pass to be destroyed cause you cannot push a smaller man out of your way is a horrible play.

Call me naive or whatever you want, but in watching Goodwin, he did not stray from his lane, he never got bulldozed out of the way, he did not have a chance at a fourth and one, but he never got blown up by someone on a screen pass.

Faine is not a starting quality center in this league. Cleveland knew this and let him go to us, and they took one of the most overrated Centers in FA of all time. Yes argue all you want but look at Bentley, he was a beast physically, but he struggled with the mental aspect of setting the blocking scheme, Fontenot while having lesser physical skills was probably one of the best the Saints have ever had to line up over the ball.

I am not asking for dominance, I am hoping the coaching staff with see these inadequacies and will draft accordingly. A very good top notch starting center can be found in the 2nd and 3rd round of the draft. What I am asking is that we do not, as fans, get suckered into believing only stats. I was sucked into how great the O line played last year and did not listen to Euphoria until their inadequacies started to show this year. When I went back and looked at the games I saw a whole lot of what I have seen this year, Brees having to move a whole lot. I did not say scramble, stepping up or to the side is not scrambling. However last year he had a little more time to throw and his receivers got open earlier, which disguised our O line inadequacies to me and many others.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:56 PM   #20
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Re: How bout that O-LINE

I love you guys!

********

Trying to figure out how our O-line is so horrible, and not having much luck? Does it have you down? Feeling lost and confused?

I have the answer. All you have to do is be perfect. You see, if you're perfect at everything you do and never make any mistakes whatsoever, then you're paradigm will also be to look at someone else not being perfect and see a major problem. You see, in your world view, you never allow someone competing against you to beat you because you're just that good. In your environment, there's no one even close to you athletically, mentally, competitvely - you simply blow them all away.

With that kind of viewpoint, you'd look at someone (really anyone) playing in the NFL and see nothing but a scrub. Heck, he sometimes get's outplayed by another NFL player - he must be terrible at his position to get outplayed ever, right? When someone tried to argue with your assertion and presented evidence (like we pass more than any team and still have fewer sacks), it wouldn't matter because you've seen it with your own eyes - that player made a mistake. They must be terrible.

Let's all go out and be perfect. We'll be able to see the mistakes players make in a new light, and learn what scrubs they really are.

Oh, and by the way, if you happen to not be able to be perfect - you must also be terrible at what you so as well.

********

\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue

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